Further Restrictions Announced by Johnson (22/09)

[Richard Scott]

Even if you don't trust YouGov I think it is clear that the public are generally hawkish when it comes to restrictions - Which isn't a shock

Here is a poll from Ipsos (who do lots of good stuff on perception) on different options to prevent a second wave - https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default...-coronavirus-polling-charts_220920_public.pdf

There was net support for every measure with the exception of closing schools and almost 70% supporting banning all foreign travel.

The problem is most don't research facts and then state they're doing whatever to save lives. I'm afraid asking public opinion really should be a non starter on an issue like this as much more to it than most comprehend.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I think to impose restriction beyond March 2021 would be complete an utter madness.

Boris Johnson has speculated six months as a worst case scenario........for now! If you remember he previously mentioned November as the benchmark for normality when he addressed a press conference in June.

My misgivings are that we get into the New Year and are then told about possible relaxation in mid summer 2021. Are people honestly going to be accept this?

Its almost like dangling a carrot in front of 66 million people.

CJ

 

[Yew]

If you remember he previously mentioned November as the benchmark for normality when he addressed a press conference in June.

My misgivings are that we get into the New Year and are then told about possible relaxation in mid summer 2021. Are people honestly going to be accept this?

I thought it was "6 weeks to turn the tide?" maybe we need to stop trusting this habitual liar...

 

[DB]

I thought it was "6 weeks to turn the tide?"

The tide is actually quite a good analogy - as in they are trying to prevent it from coming in. The fact that nobody has ever managed that doesn't seem to be deterrriing them!

 

[bramling]

I think to impose restriction beyond March 2021 would be complete an utter madness.

Boris Johnson has speculated six months as a worst case scenario........for now! If you remember he previously mentioned November as the benchmark for normality when he addressed a press conference in June.

My misgivings are that we get into the New Year and are then told about possible relaxation in mid summer 2021. Are people honestly going to be accept this?

Its almost like dangling a carrot in front of 66 million people.

CJ

With the current mindset reality is there will be restrictions until one of

(1) vaccine
(2) natural herd immunity (which we are now delaying)
(3) civil disobedience (who knows how BJ would react to that?)
(4) economic calamity

Not a good outlook is it?

There’s little point in Boris dangling round timescales, as the timetable is dictated by the four factors above, all of which are essentially outside Boris’s control.

Bets on which of the four will be the winning horse? The way things look at the moment I would place a fiver on (3), though how soon I don’t know.

 

[Yew]

(3) civil disobedience (who knows how BJ would react to that?)

When he was Mayor of London he got some water cannon in, and now he's already mentioned the army to help the police.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I thought it was "6 weeks to turn the tide?" maybe we need to stop trusting this habitual liar...

I always remember the scene in Airplane! when Leslie Neilson's nose starts growing when he is reassuring the passengers. I expect with Boris, his hair will start to take on a life of its own when he tells porkies.

CJ

 

[Scrotnig]

I thought it was "6 weeks to turn the tide?" maybe we need to stop trusting this habitual liar...

He actually said 12. Not that I am defending him in any way.

 

[duncanp]

I think to impose restriction beyond March 2021 would be complete an utter madness.

Boris Johnson has speculated six months as a worst case scenario........for now! If you remember he previously mentioned November as the benchmark for normality when he addressed a press conference in June.

My misgivings are that we get into the New Year and are then told about possible relaxation in mid summer 2021. Are people honestly going to be accept this?

Its almost like dangling a carrot in front of 66 million people.

CJ

If the restrictions are still in place by the time of the local elections in England at the beginning of May, then the Conservatives will be toast.

I don't know whether the same would apply to the SNP in Scotland, or would Ms Sturgeon play her usual game of blaming nasty old Westminster for Scotland's problems.

 

[DB]

If the restrictions are still in place by the time of the local elections in England at the beginning of May, then the Conservatives will be toast.

I don't know whether the same would apply to the SNP in Scotland, or would Ms Sturgeon play her usual game of blaming nasty old Westminster for Scotland's problems.

The basic problem is that none of the alternatives are offering anything significantly different - it's like Brexit in that sense: Vote for this lot who you disagree with, or that lot who you disagree with.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The basic problem is that none of the alternatives are offering anything significantly different - it's like Brexit in that sense: Vote for this lot who you disagree with, or that lot who you disagree with.

I'm surprised every gammon's favourite gob (Farage) has not done much speaking up.

 

[NorthOxonian]

I'm surprised every gammon's favourite gob (Farage) has not done much speaking up.

He has begun to do so now, though because he's something of a one man band, his actual influence is pretty limited.

 

[DB]

He has begun to do so now, though because he's something of a one man band, his actual influence is pretty limited.

He is very good at getting media attention and getting people to back his viewpoint, though.

 

[ChrisC]

There are reports of a "traffic light" system whereby each area in England is classified Red, Amber or Green depending on the level of infection, and each classification would have a differing level of restrictions.

I also think that is a very good idea although only if the areas concerned are not too large.
The local lockdown in Leicester was kept very much to the City of Leicester and a few neighbouring areas just over the city boundary. That was good because large areas of rural Leicestershire have had very low levels of infection.
The way it has been done in the North East has been to include the whole region. Cases may be very high in Newcastle, Gateshead, Sunderland etc and there may a problem in Durham City with the large student population. However, some parts of Northumberland and the Durham Dales have had some of the lowest levels of infection in the country, yet have been included in the North East lockdown.
Where I live in a rural area of Nottinghamshire there have been very few cases and in the council ward which covers my village only one death from Coronavirus since March. This is far less than there would normally be from a winter flu outbreak. If there was to be a local lockdown in the City of Nottingham at some point in the future, I would hope that rural areas of the county of Nottinghamshire would not be included.

 

[Domh245]

There are reports of a "traffic light" system whereby each area in England is classified Red, Amber or Green depending on the level of infection, and each classification would have a differing level of restrictions.

Rather than introducing another system, why not use the nando's COVID alert scale we are (suddenly, re-) using. For example, the north west would be a level 4, but the south west would be a 2

I'm surprised every gammon's favourite gob (Farage) has not done much speaking up.

I think he's been waiting to try and get a good sense of the public opinion for the situation. Up until now, there had been a reasonable amount of support for the government, but as people begin to turn, he'll feel emboldened to speak out about all the issues

 

[bramling]

Rather than introducing another system, why not use the nando's COVID alert scale we are (suddenly, re-) using. For example, the north west would be a level 4, but the south west would be a 2



I think he's been waiting to try and get a good sense of the public opinion for the situation. Up until now, there had been a reasonable amount of support for the government, but as people begin to turn, he'll feel emboldened to speak out about all the issues

Peter Hitchens seems to be the only one who has really stuck his head above the parapet, especially against masks.

 

[MikeWM]

The SDP (yes, they still exist!) are the first party I've seen to talk sense on this:

https://sdp.org.uk/2020/09/11/social-democrats-oppose-new-covid-19-restrictions/

The SDP today announces its opposition to the government’s new COVID-19 restrictions. We call on the government to instead adopt a sustainable public response to the pandemic, befitting the long-term challenges it poses.

...

“A considerate approach is needed in response to COVID-19,” says William Clouston, SDP Leader. “The government should encourage and enable the vulnerable to voluntarily shield themselves, while calling on the rest of the population to behave in a respectful, responsible and tolerant manner. The virus is here and may remain for some time, which means a ‘stop-go’ approach to opening and closing society is unsustainable and inappropriate.

“Furthermore, some restrictions on personal freedom are unacceptable in a free society. The threat of curfews, limits to social gatherings and the compelled wearing of face masks represent an unprecedented encroachment into the dignity and autonomy of Britons, which we fundamentally oppose. The government’s response to COVID-19 must be communitarian, not draconian.”

I've had a quick browse of their policies on other issues, and it is a rather mixed bag, but I'd vote for them right now given that statement alone.

 

[NorthOxonian]

The SDP (yes, they still exist!) are the first party I've seen to talk sense on this:

https://sdp.org.uk/2020/09/11/social-democrats-oppose-new-covid-19-restrictions/



I've had a quick browse of their policies on other issues, and it is a rather mixed bag, but I'd vote for them right now given that statement alone.

I've warmed to them (and their leader is from just down the road to me: indeed he's actually under local lockdown). I like the fact their policies strike a good balance between left and right, and do reflect how many feel, particularly in the North East. But they simply aren't credible as an opposition today - if we had ten years I'd support them, but these measures are ruining lives now.

 

[greyman42]

I'm surprised every gammon's favourite gob (Farage) has not done much speaking up.

I would of thought he's just keeping an eye on brexit at the moment, but if that goes his way then he may want something new to get his teeth into. His ability to rally public support should not be underestimated.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I wouldn’t really know if any of the above is true or not, however I would say there’s an element that people in here take the trouble to analyse things in greater detail than the population in general. There’s certainly been plenty of sources quoted, and I must say from having read many of the arguments on here I have found myself being persuaded. By comparison my local Facebook is bordering on hysterical.

I don't know if that's quite the case. There is a lot of "evidence" that can be used to support a view, whichever it is. This forum was generally anti-Brexit and again, I wonder if that was again linked to similar broad demographics. That's not to say that you can't be pro-Brexit and anti-Covid restrictions nor vice versa

 

[brad465]

He has begun to do so now, though because he's something of a one man band, his actual influence is pretty limited.

He is very good at getting media attention and getting people to back his viewpoint, though.

I think he's been waiting to try and get a good sense of the public opinion for the situation. Up until now, there had been a reasonable amount of support for the government, but as people begin to turn, he'll feel emboldened to speak out about all the issues

Farage is an outstanding lobbyist, but if he ever held a position of serious power (he's only ever been an MEP who barely turned up) he'd expose his weaknesses, which made campaigning for Brexit easy as neither he or any other politician were mandated to deliver it in a specific way. If history is anything to go by if he lobbies against the current restrictions (along with some within the Tory party itself) the Government will act accordingly.

However I don't think Farage's action against the current situation would be as effective at the moment as it might have been if he revived leadership of a small party that could steal voters from the Tories (because if there's one thing they really hate, it's other right wing parties splitting their vote share).

 

[Isaiah]

Boris is off his head

 

[C J Snarzell]

Boris is off his head

I actually think Boris has some similar traits to the Major in Fawlty Towers.

CJ

 

[Howardh]

Bolton's been shut down for over two weeks - restaurants, cafes, bars all shut.
The rates of covid infections haven't gone down, in fact the last time I looked it was over 200 cases per 100k. Just like the rest of the country.
So the bars can hardly be blamed for the continuing rise, if they were the numbers would surely fall?
So there must be another explanation. Now, tell me, what changed in the beginning of September?

 

[Class 33]

I think to impose restriction beyond March 2021 would be complete an utter madness.

Boris Johnson has speculated six months as a worst case scenario........for now! If you remember he previously mentioned November as the benchmark for normality when he addressed a press conference in June.

My misgivings are that we get into the New Year and are then told about possible relaxation in mid summer 2021. Are people honestly going to be accept this?

Its almost like dangling a carrot in front of 66 million people.

CJ

Indeed if all this drags on beyond March 2021 is complete and utter insanity and madness. Come 23rd March that would then be a whole year of this. And many would regard that year as a complete and utter write-off really. We just can't drag this on any longer than that.

It is confusing with the conflicting comments Boris and other members of the cabinet have said as to how long these restrictions will last.....

MARCH 2020
Boris Johnson: in his address to the nation announcing the lockdown mentioned "We can get through this in 12 weeks.".

MID-LATE JULY 2020
Boris Johnson: in two separate press conferences he mentioned "We may MAY be able to lift the remaining restrictions from November, and return to a significant normality. Perhaps in time for Christmas.".

EARLY AUGUST 2020
Boris Johnson: in a interview he mentioned "We may be able to relax restrictions around the middle of next year.".

SEPTEMBER 22nd 2020
Boris JOhnson: In his address to the nation mentioned "These restrictions may last 6 months.". And also mentioned that tougher measures may be brought in if necessary.

SEPTEMBER 24th 2020
Rishi Sunak: in this statement in The House of Commons mentioned "It is now clear as the prime minister and our scientific advisors have said that for at LEAST the next 6 months that the virus and the restrictions are going to be a fact of our lives. Our economy is now likely to go to a more permanent adjustment. The sources of our economic growth and the kinds of jobs we create will adapt and evolve to the new normal.".


After Boris mentioned that these restrictions MAY last for the next 6 months, I was initially very angry at this, having to put up with all this for yet another LONG 6 months. But afterwards I became optimistic that we can get through this second peak somewhat before 6 months, and these very hassly and restrictive restrictions can FINALLY be scrapped and we can get on with our lives properly. But after hearing Sunak today saying these restrictions are going to last for AT LEAST the next 6 months, I'm feeling well and truly fed up again. I don't know how my mental health will get through another 6 months of all this. Plus I've been unemployed for near enough all this year, and with VERY LITTLE chance of getting another job whilst this social distancing nonsense drags on endlessly, because far fewer jobs are being advertised as a result of these "social distancing rules". If indeed all this drags on until at least late March 2021(and chances are it probably will), then I will regard this 12 MONTH period(or however many months it turns out to be) as a complete and utter write-off. Many millions of other people in the UK will too. This is all just too much.

 

[bramling]

Indeed if all this drags on beyond March 2021 is complete and utter insanity and madness. Come 23rd March that would then be a whole year of this. And many would regard that year as a complete and utter write-off really. We just can't drag this on any longer than that.

It is confusing with the conflicting comments Boris and other members of the cabinet have said as to how long these restrictions will last.....

MARCH 2020
Boris Johnson: in his address to the nation announcing the lockdown mentioned "We can get through this in 12 weeks.".

MID-LATE JULY 2020
Boris Johnson: in two separate press conferences he mentioned "We may MAY be able to lift the remaining restrictions from November, and return to a significant normality. Perhaps in time for Christmas.".

EARLY AUGUST 2020
Boris Johnson: in a interview he mentioned "We may be able to relax restrictions around the middle of next year.".

SEPTEMBER 22nd 2020
Boris JOhnson: In his address to the nation mentioned "These restrictions may last 6 months.". And also mentioned that tougher measures may be brought in if necessary.

SEPTEMBER 24th 2020
Rishi Sunak: in this statement in The House of Commons mentioned "It is now clear as the prime minister and our scientific advisors have said that for at LEAST the next 6 months that the virus and the restrictions are going to be a fact of our lives. Our economy is now likely to go to a more permanent adjustment. The sources of our economic growth and the kinds of jobs we create will adapt and evolve to the new normal.".


After Boris mentioned that these restrictions MAY last for the next 6 months, I was initially very angry at this, having to put up with all this for yet another LONG 6 months. But afterwards I became optimistic that we can get through this second peak somewhat before 6 months, and these very hassly and restrictive restrictions can FINALLY be scrapped and we can get on with our lives properly. But after hearing Sunak today saying these restrictions are going to last for AT LEAST the next 6 months, I'm feeling well and truly fed up again. I don't know how my mental health will get through another 6 months of all this. Plus I've been unemployed for near enough all this year, and with VERY LITTLE chance of getting another job whilst this social distancing nonsense drags on endlessly, because far fewer jobs are being advertised as a result of these "social distancing rules". If indeed all this drags on until at least late March 2021(and chances are it probably will), then I will regard this 12 MONTH(or however many months it turns out to be) as a complete and utter write-off. Many millions of other people in the UK will too. This is all just too much.

I wouldn’t get too wound up about anything Boris or Sunak say, especially where dates and timescales are concerned. Reality is they’re a ship with no rudder, and have been so for some time now. So they are just going with where the tide goes.

As it does seem to be the case that more people are starting to consider the economic and other consequences to all this, especially with furlough finishing, the six months is essentially not worth the value of Cummings’s eye test.

 

[yorksrob]

Bolton's been shut down for over two weeks - restaurants, cafes, bars all shut.
The rates of covid infections haven't gone down, in fact the last time I looked it was over 200 cases per 100k. Just like the rest of the country.
So the bars can hardly be blamed for the continuing rise, if they were the numbers would surely fall?
So there must be another explanation. Now, tell me, what changed in the beginning of September?

Absolutely. Hospitality is a scapegoat pure and simple.

The real driver of increased infections will be the British winter, and there's nowt anyone can do to stop that.

 

[Yew]

The real driver of increased infections will be the British winter, and there's nowt anyone can do to stop that.

Don't tell Boris, it'll be right on his list after moving an immovable object, and stopping an unstoppable force.

 

[yorksrob]

Don't tell Boris, it'll be right on his list after moving an immovable object, and stopping an unstoppable force.

"Dream the impossible dream...."

 

[C J Snarzell]

I'm thinking maybe Charles Dickens Christmas Carol could be rewritten for 2020 as Boris Johnson's Covid Carol with Dominic Cummings playing Scrooge.

CJ