Further Restrictions Announced by Johnson (22/09)

[adc82140]

Don't forget though that this so called second wave (which isn't a second wave, but that's a debate for elsewhere) will fall away naturally at some point in the next few weeks to months, then the politicians will give each other a good slap on the back and act like everyone's mate for releasing the restrictions. It's just got to be seen through. We are nowhere near overwhelming the health service.

 

[Class 33]

Journalist Dan Wootton gives his thoughts on these ongoing seemingly never-ending restrictions in this video. Worth a watch. It's only 4 and a half minutes.

I will quote what he mentions towards the end of the video, as it's definitely something I and many others agree with.

"But I now feel that the government's new 6 month Covid cure is becoming more dangerous than the virus itself. What about the potential 60,000 deaths from other illnesses like heart disease and cancer caused by delayed treatment and misdiagnosis. What about the death cycle caused by poverty that is likely to be prompted by mass job losses in the hospitality industry. What about the mental illness explosion caused the shocking growth in suicides, as the real cost in forcing people to work and live in tiny shared flats for months on end starts to take it's toll. And just imagine what that's going to feel like when you can't even walk outside because it's snowing and it's freezing cold. Have you thought about that?"

 

[Romsey]

Journalist Dan Wootton gives his thoughts on these ongoing seemingly never-ending restrictions in this video. Worth a watch. It's only 4 and a half minutes.

I will quote what he mentions towards the end of the video, as it's definitely something I and many others agree with.

"But I now feel that the government's new 6 month Covid cure is becoming more dangerous than the virus itself. What about the potential 60,000 deaths from other illnesses like heart disease and cancer caused by delayed treatment and misdiagnosis. What about the death cycle caused by poverty that is likely to be prompted by mass job losses in the hospitality industry. What about the mental illness explosion caused the shocking growth in suicides, as the real cost in forcing people to work and live in tiny shared flats for months on end starts to take it's toll. And just imagine what that's going to feel like when you can't even walk outside because it's snowing and it's freezing cold. Have you thought about that?"

Answer from HM Government : No ( But preceded by ten minutes of platitudes and waffle.)

As for military on the streets, have you never experienced Portsmouth, Gosport or Aldershot on a Friday night?
The military police patrol sometimes with the county force, but more often on their own. Welcome in all pubs and takeaways!
Brilliant at scaring the local scrotes.

 

[317 forever]

Labour would have us locked up till 2022. My partner cancelled her membership because of their stance. So one positive from all this!

With Labour expressing so much dismay at u not having an effective Test Trace & Isolate system, they seem to want people forced to self-isolate.

I am trying to avoid the news as much as possible but see this and really not sure how to get through the next 6 months.

The whole point of the first set of restrictions in March was to give you time to work out what you were going to do and put in place your plan to allow you to live with this in a sustained way - so things like your track and trace system etc.

This shows that we have completely failed on that so it is yet more rules and restrictions, with likely more to come, and instead of finding ways to live with this our only solution seems to be to stay at home and hope it goes away without much regard for the wider damage that will do.

It has been fine to be working remotely during the summer - when you can go on long walks or enjoy lunch in the garden - but doing the same in winter is a horrible thought.

Another 6 months with nothing to look forward to, no opportunity to do the things that make life worth living or even just that little bit of social contact. What precisely are we existing for right now when all the joy of life is being sucked away?

Some of these restrictions, especially for people who have lost their jobs as a result of government policy towards Covid, could add to a few people losing the will to live and not being bothered at the idea of becoming Covid casualties. So these could in this respect prove self-defeating.

Yet 1700 people per day die of other causes in the UK. Are they going to try and stop them too or do they simply deny that it's happening?

The governments are running the risk of wanting to save even 1 Covid death even if it means 2 alternative deaths instead.

 

[yorkie]

Of course, for the vast majority, the restrictions are going to be far more damaging than the virus itself, that is incredibly obvious.

As for the 10pm closing time, this is not going well as it's causing crowding in streets at that time and placing a lot of demand on transport at the same time. Instead of people leaving gradually at different times, everyone is now leaving lots of different venues all at precisely the same time.

 

[northernchris]

Of course, for the vast majority, the restrictions are going to be far more damaging than the virus itself, that is incredibly obvious.

As for the 10pm closing time, this is not going well as it's causing crowding in streets at that time and placing a lot of demand on transport at the same time. Instead of people leaving gradually at different times, everyone is now leaving lots of different venues all at precisely the same time.

Agreed, when Leeds went in to a local lockdown on Friday the council were advising the no household mixing rule is likely to last until the spring. That's an awful long time to have minimal contact with family and friends, and something which I suspect will lose compliance as time passes. The alternative is to do what my neighbours have done the past couple of nights and invite half of the pub back to theirs at 10pm

How were the last buses and trains coping capacity wise pre-curfew? I know some of the last trains were rammed pre-Covid, although to be honest I don't get why people have to stay out until 10pm just because that's when closing time is

 

[Ianno87]

How were the last buses and trains coping capacity wise pre-curfew? I know some of the last trains were rammed pre-Covid, although to be honest I don't get why people have to stay out until 10pm just because that's when closing time is

With two young kids, the ability to stay out until even as late as 10pm in a pub feels like pure unadulterated decadence to me...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

As for the 10pm closing time, this is not going well as it's causing crowding in streets at that time and placing a lot of demand on transport at the same time. Instead of people leaving gradually at different times, everyone is now leaving lots of different venues all at precisely the same time.

That much was obvious.

When the licensing laws were stricter (pubs at 11, nightclubs at 2), then the late buses and trains had a critical mass of "revellers" (for want of a better phrase). Removal of that fragmented the trade so later buses just didn't have that mass of travellers. Reversing it now was going to have that effect whether it's on the late bus, the taxi rank or wherever.

There again, I don't believe our political leaders of any persuasion know what happens on a night out in a big city, irrespective of the photo calls in pubs that they do to show how "in touch" they are. (Note: this applies equally across the political landscape and always has - Harold Wilson had his pipe to show his humble credentials but actually preferred a nice cigar in private though I digress). It's a farcical move.

 

[bramling]

Of course, for the vast majority, the restrictions are going to be far more damaging than the virus itself, that is incredibly obvious.

As for the 10pm closing time, this is not going well as it's causing crowding in streets at that time and placing a lot of demand on transport at the same time. Instead of people leaving gradually at different times, everyone is now leaving lots of different venues all at precisely the same time.

Yes lots of people in London have been observing this. Indeed it’s a masterstoke on Boris’s part as the new 10pm rush hour manages to coincide with when many shift workers start or finish, so it’s quite probably there will be some pushback from that direction.

Boris seems incapable of predicting *any* consequences or implications that may arise from his decisions. A lack of real-world life experience?

 

[Richard Scott]

Yes lots of people in London have been observing this. Indeed it’s a masterstoke on Boris’s part as the new 10pm rush hour manages to coincide with when many shift workers start or finish, so it’s quite probably there will be some pushback from that direction.

Boris seems incapable of predicting *any* consequences or implications that may arise from his decisions. A lack of real-world life experience?

It's what happens when you make it up as you go along.

 

[DustyBin]

It's what happens when you make it up as you go along.

Can Boris, his entire cabinet, their advisors (scientific or otherwise) and the opposition really all be as thick as they are coming across? I’m increasingly asking myself what is really going on here....

 

[Class 33]

According to the front page of tomorrow's The Times, ministers are preparing to enforce a total "social lockdown" across much of northern Britain and potentially London.

A sample of the first two paragraphs of this article....

Ministers are preparing to enforce a total social lockdown across much of northern Britain and potentially London to combat a spiralling second wave of Coronavirus.

Under the new emergency plan, all pubs, restaurants, and bars would be ordered to shut for two weeks initially. Households would also be banned indefinitely from meeting each other in any indoor location where they were not already under the order. Schools would stay open as well as shops, factories and offices at which staff could not work from home.

If this happens, this will finish off many pubs, bars and restaurants in much of northern Britain(and potentially London). And banning people indefinitely from meeting others indoors? This would effect the mental health of many people, in particular those who live on their own and feel lonely and need to regularly chat to other people in person. But then again, I expect many people would not comply with this rule, and it wouldn't be easy to police.

This is all just getting out of control now, all these further measures/restrictions/laws that keep getting brought in every week or two.

 

[Huntergreed]

According to the front page of tomorrow's The Times, ministers are preparing to enforce a total "social lockdown" across much of northern Britain and potentially London.

A sample of the first two paragraphs of this article....



If this happens, this will finish off many pubs, bars and restaurants in much of northern Britain(and potentially London). And banning people indefinitely from meeting others indoors? This would effect the mental health of many people, in particular those who feel lonely and need to chat to other people in person. But then again, I expect many people would not comply with this rule, and it wouldn't be easy to police.

This is all just getting out of control now, all these further measures/restrictions/laws that keep getting brought in every week or two.

Indeed.

What is clear is that without a change of strategy, a full lockdown is on the way. The question is, will they have the guts to change strategy or will they keep pandering? Another lockdown would be beyond devastating in so many ways, and I imagine compliance/obedience would be remarkably lower than it was for the first lockdown.

 

[DustyBin]

According to the front page of tomorrow's The Times, ministers are preparing to enforce a total "social lockdown" across much of northern Britain and potentially London.

A sample of the first two paragraphs of this article....



If this happens, this will finish off many pubs, bars and restaurants in much of northern Britain(and potentially London). And banning people indefinitely from meeting others indoors? This would effect the mental health of many people, in particular those who feel lonely and need to chat to other people in person. But then again, I expect many people would not comply with this rule, and it wouldn't be easy to police.

This is all just getting out of control now, all these further measures/restrictions/laws that keep getting brought in every week or two.

See my reply in the ‘second wave’ thread. I did wonder if I’d read too much into what I heard on Sky News but perhaps not....

I work in hospitality, this will be devastating.

 

[brad465]

I don't think it will take effect very quickly, but some right wing figures like Laurence Fox and Farage have been talking about setting up their own parties (the former says he's submitted an application to the electoral commission), both citing opposition to the Tory stance on Covid-19. Given how the Tory party has behaved before when a small right wing party led by Farage has split their vote, there's a good chance if something became of their actions the Government will change tact (I don't approve of any of them generally btw):

Nigel Farage considering new anti-lockdown party to rival Laurence Fox's efforts

Nigel Farage wants to start anti-lockdown party to rival Laurence Fox's efforts.

www.theneweuropean.co.uk

Fresh off the back of claims Laurence Fox is planning to launch a new political party which will contradict the Tory stance on Covid-19, Nigel Farage has said he could also form a new party to oppose the government's "authoritarian" measures.

The Brexit Party leader has added pressure on prime minister Boris Johnson by claiming the new measures are a threat to freedom, as sceptics fear a new lockdown to deal with the coronavirus.

 

[yorksrob]

With labour about as much use as a wet towell, it's hard to see what power the opposition will have.

 

[Scrotnig]

Indeed.

What is clear is that without a change of strategy, a full lockdown is on the way. The question is, will they have the guts to change strategy or will they keep pandering? Another lockdown would be beyond devastating in so many ways, and I imagine compliance/obedience would be remarkably lower than it was for the first lockdown.

Compliance would certainly be lower from me. Any attempt to impose 'no person shall be outside the place where they live' again on me will be *completely* ignored.

Answer from HM Government : No

The truthful answer here is :
"Yes. And we don't care".

 

[Bantamzen]

Indeed.

What is clear is that without a change of strategy, a full lockdown is on the way. The question is, will they have the guts to change strategy or will they keep pandering? Another lockdown would be beyond devastating in so many ways, and I imagine compliance/obedience would be remarkably lower than it was for the first lockdown.

If this happens I for one will be more determined to not comply & to protest.

 

[DelayRepay]

Yes lots of people in London have been observing this. Indeed it’s a masterstoke on Boris’s part as the new 10pm rush hour manages to coincide with when many shift workers start or finish, so it’s quite probably there will be some pushback from that direction.

The impact of the 10pm closure rule in terms of crowding in streets and pressure on public transport/taxis was entirely predictable. Indeed it contradicts the advice for schools and workplaces to stagger start/finish times to prevent crowding and try to take pressure of public transport at what used to be called 'rush hour'.

A member of Sage has said the group never discussed this proposal.

Boris Johnson ‘never discussed 10pm pub curfew with science advisers’

A scientist advising the prime minister has claimed he never heard the 10pm pub curfew plan discussed

uk.news.yahoo.com

It feels like the next step will be to close hospitality completely again, and the government will place the blame at the pubs and punters.

 

[VauxhallandI]

There was a story in my news feed from The Sunday Times iirc that said the Houses of Commons bars don’t have to shut at 10pm. Apologies it was behind a paywall so if anyone has access I’d be interested in the detail.

 

[adc82140]

Compliance would certainly be lower from me. Any attempt to impose 'no person shall be outside the place where they live' again on me will be *completely* ignored.

There are no plans for a stay at home order. There wasn't a stay at home order in March, so why would they have one now?

Socialising restrictions in other people's homes are unenforceable anyway because of the support bubble concept. You can claim to be in anyone's support bubble as it suits you.

 

[Yew]

There are no plans for a stay at home order. There wasn't a stay at home order in March, so why would they have one now?

Socialising restrictions in other people's homes are unenforceable anyway because of the support bubble concept. You can claim to be in anyone's support bubble as it suits you.

Not this pointless "one true lockdown" argument again.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not this pointless "one true lockdown" argument again.

It seems the "2 week circuit breaker" is on the table again.

 

[Yew]

It seems the "2 week circuit breaker" is on the table again.

Because the NHS is being overwhelmed by Covid cases? Oh, wait...

 

[DelayRepay]

Socialising restrictions in other people's homes are unenforceable anyway because of the support bubble concept. You can claim to be in anyone's support bubble as it suits you.

Doesn't work if there are two couples socialising, since bubbles only apply to single households. But if it's low key rather than a party of dozens you would likely get away with it.

My friend said he would bring his work tools (he's a plumber) and if we get into trouble he'll say he was repairing the boiler.

 

[Ianno87]

My friend said he would bring his work tools (he's a plumber) and if we get into trouble he'll say he was repairing the boiler.

Sounds like the plot of a porn film. So I've heard...

 

[adc82140]

I'll be helping my father in law with essential maintenance to his house. I'll bring a screwdriver.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I used the ATM at in my local town centre on Friday night and there were big groups of people congregated at taxi ranks and other communal areas at 10.10pm. Clearly, everyone had been turfed out at 10pm - this is the problem.

At least prior to last Tuesday, the exits from pubs were staggered. Generally, by midnight or 1am, my local Weatherspoons is quite, so removing the last few customers wouldn't pose an issue in close contact. However, by closing the doors at 10pm, Boris has created a problem instead of solving one as larger numbers of people leave at the same time.

CJ

 

[yorksrob]

See my reply in the ‘second wave’ thread. I did wonder if I’d read too much into what I heard on Sky News but perhaps not....

I work in hospitality, this will be devastating.

If these clowns order this, they need to be down the road sharpish.

 

[C J Snarzell]

With labour about as much use as a wet towell, it's hard to see what power the opposition will have.

Kier Starmer does seem to have slightly better leadership skills than BJ, however what puts me off Labour is the idiots Starmer has behind him - namely Lisa Nandy & Angela Rayner.

CJ