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General reminiscences about train to ferry travel

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urpert

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moderator note : posts #1-#13 originally in this thread:


I have fond memories of the very easy interchange from train to SeaCat at Folkestone harbour. It was quite a popular route with day trip foot passengers in pre-Eurostar days. (I never remember seeing any trains waiting at the Gare Maritime in Boulogne when getting off on the other side though.)
 
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BayPaul

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Plymouth docks used to have direct rail connections, but they were used for transatlantic liner connections, rather than cross-channel. Liners from continental ports would call in Plymouth as a first/last port in Europe, and gain a significant time advantage vs sailing from Southampton. GWR at Plymouth had a number of large tenders to facilitate this traffic, with the liners anchoring just inside the breakwater, and with fast boat trains to Paddington. I don't think there were any historic ferry links before the arrival of Brittany Ferries, which has never been rail connected.

Portsmouth's ferry links were indeed originally in Southampton. The old railway boats to Le Havre, St Malo and the Channel Islands were run down in the 60s, with some of the steamers being converted to car ferries for Dover and Newhaven, and the CI trade concentrated on Weymouth. Thoresen Car Ferries and Normandy Ferries moved in, and ran the routes to Cherbourg and Le Havre very successfully, eventually moving to Portsmouth due to a combination of shorter journey time and union activity in Southampton docks. Brittany Ferries started their sailings to St Malo when Portsmouth opened - they never ran to Southampton.
 
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irish_rail

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Plymouth docks used to have direct rail connections, but they were used for transatlantic liner connections, rather than cross-channel. Liners from continental ports would call in Plymouth as a first/last port in Europe, and gain a significant time advantage vs sailing from Southampton. GWR at Plymouth had a number of large tenders to facilitate this traffic, with the liners anchoring just inside the breakwater, and with fast boat trains to Paddington. I don't think there were any historic ferry links before the arrival of Brittany Ferries, which has never been rail connected.

Portsmouth's ferry links were indeed originally in Southampton. The old railway boats to Le Havre, St Malo and the Channel Islands were run down in the 60s, with some of the steamers being converted to car ferries for Dover and Newhaven, and the CI trade concentrated on Weymouth. Thoresen Car Ferries and Normandy Ferries moved in, and ran the routes to Cherbourg and Le Havre very successfully, eventually moving to Portsmouth due to a combination of shorter journey time and union activity in Southampton docks. Brittany Ferries started their sailings to St Malo when Portsmouth opened - they never ran to Southampton.
I do believe for a while there were sailings from plymouth to ireland also in the early 20th century.
The main plymouth station was at Millbay , alongside the passenger port. North rd station I believe came slightly later.
 

Taunton

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I do believe for a while there were sailings from Plymouth to Ireland also in the early 20th century.
The main Plymouth station was at Millbay , alongside the passenger port. North Rd station I believe came slightly later.
These various short sea vessels docked in Millbay docks, but the ocean liners anchored out in the Sound. After 1900 both the GWR and the LSWR provided separate tender vessels, an agreement was the GWR carried the mails and the LSWR the passengers. The LSWR new and palatial dockside station was at Stonehouse; the GWR, not needing such an elaborate arrangement for its inanimate cargo, just unloaded at Millbay quayside where there were tracks alongside. Millbay passenger station itself was a bit inland, outside the docks, it fell into local use only and was closed after 1939, the dock tracks running past the station.

The LSWR branch to Stonehouse, about a mile west of Millbay, was a right nuisance, corkscrewing round existing buildings, and rising up in Devonport LSWR station goods yard, after tunnelling right under the main goods shed, facing the wrong way, towards North Road, so a docks pilot loco had to pull the special liner train up through there, where the train loco came on the other end to depart via Okehampton. The LSWR lost a lot of money on their venture, and shortly after the GWR became the much shorter route through Castle Cary they gave up and the GWR took the passengers as well.

The advantage of Plymouth for liners was not just the shorter sea distance compared to Southampton, but the liners mostly served both Britain and France, even if based at Southampton they were a lot quicker getting people and mail to London if they stopped at Plymouth first, then went to Cherbourg, and finally home port in Southampton. French ships likewise did Plymouth, then Cherbourg, avoiding a dog-leg trip across The Channel. Even Queen Mary/Elizabeth normally served Cherbourg on their Southampton voyages. Anchoring in Plymouth Sound instead of tying up saved several hours as well. The GWR thought they could do the same with liners heading to Liverpool, and developed Fishguard, but that was even less successful for ocean traffic than Plymouth. One traffic the LSWR retained was a courier would pick up all the freight documentation from the ship, and travel straight to Southampton with it, starting the customs clearance process in advance and saving a day or more of paperwork delays when the bulk freight was being finally unloaded there. Obviously this transferred to sending these advance documents by air.

I'm probably one of the few here who can recall the Ocean Liner Specials, which ceased in 1963 and were pretty few and far between at the end. The Up services typically came through Taunton at lunchtime, following one block behind the nonstop Cornish Riviera Express, so all the Up distant signals came off twice in about 5 minutes. Always a Castle to the end, immaculately polished, cleanest loco of the week, a credit to the Laira team. The old Ocean saloons, still in brown/cream livery, were likewise, maybe just four of them and a van.
 
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coppercapped

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These various short sea vessels docked in Millbay docks, but the ocean liners anchored out in the Sound. After 1900 both the GWR and the LSWR provided separate tender vessels, an agreement was the GWR carried the mails and the LSWR the passengers. The LSWR new and palatial dockside station was at Stonehouse; the GWR, not needing such an elaborate arrangement for its inanimate cargo, just unloaded at Millbay quayside where there were tracks alongside. Millbay passenger station itself was a bit inland, outside the docks, it fell into local use only and was closed after 1939, the dock tracks running past the station.

The LSWR branch to Stonehouse, about a mile west of Millbay, was a right nuisance, corkscrewing round existing buildings, and rising up in Devonport LSWR station goods yard, after tunnelling right under the main goods shed, facing the wrong way, towards North Road, so a docks pilot loco had to pull the special liner train up through there, where the train loco came on the other end to depart via Okehampton. The LSWR lost a lot of money on their venture, and shortly after the GWR became the much shorter route through Castle Cary they gave up and the GWR took the passengers as well.

The advantage of Plymouth for liners was not just the shorter sea distance compared to Southampton, but the liners mostly served both Britain and France, even if based at Southampton they were a lot quicker getting people and mail to London if they stopped at Plymouth first, then went to Cherbourg, and finally home port in Southampton. French ships likewise did Plymouth, then Cherbourg, avoiding a dog-leg trip across The Channel. Even Queen Mary/Elizabeth normally served Cherbourg on their Southampton voyages. Anchoring in Plymouth Sound instead of tying up saved several hours as well. The GWR thought they could do the same with liners heading to Liverpool, and developed Fishguard, but that was even less successful for ocean traffic than Plymouth. One traffic the LSWR retained was a courier would pick up all the freight documentation from the ship, and travel straight to Southampton with it, starting the customs clearance process in advance and saving a day or more of paperwork delays when the bulk freight was being finally unloaded there. Obviously this transferred to sending these advance documents by air.

I'm probably one of the few here who can recall the Ocean Liner Specials, which ceased in 1963 and were pretty few and far between at the end. The Up services typically came through Taunton at lunchtime, following one block behind the nonstop Cornish Riviera Express, so all the Up distant signals came off twice in about 5 minutes. Always a Castle to the end, immaculately polished, cleanest loco of the week, a credit to the Laira team. The old Ocean saloons, still in brown/cream livery, were likewise, maybe just four of them and a van.
I went up to Uni in London in 1962 - it was really only yesterday! - and I also remember the Ocean Liner Specials in the late 1950s, coming off the Berks and Hants at Westbury Line Junction at Reading, the whole train looking immaculate. BR(WR) then still thought itself to be the GWR...

...which it was, of course!
 

Taunton

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There's an account somewhere of the first run in 1935 of the Ocean saloons, which made a notably speedy run up to Paddington. The Laira driver was the same man who had been Sam Clements' fireman on the City of Truro famous run 30 years before.

Alas one of those Specials in its last years, maybe even one I saw pass, had a bad footplate accident just east of Taunton with the hot fire irons, I believe the fireman never worked again. Taunton shed sent out a relief crew in a taxi to continue the journey.
 

Wyrleybart

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Travelled on the Speedlink Vanguard from Harwich to Zeebrugge in May 1981. It was a Liverpool St - Norwich class 47 to Manningtree for a Cravens two car down the branch to Harwich Town. We bought our port taxes and berth reservation from the "railman" on the entrance to the linkspan, then walked into town for chips and beer prior to the journey.
 
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Ken H

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Not completely relevant but I have fond memories of the very easy interchange from train to SeaCat at Folkestone harbour. It was quite a popular route with day trip foot passengers in pre-Eurostar days. (I never remember seeing any trains waiting at the Gare Maritime in Boulogne when getting off on the other side though.)
Used to go on Folkestone Pier with Grandad in the 1960's. We could look down on the trains in the harbour station, and see people getting on and off the boats. The cranes were still in use then. You had to pay the fee to go onto the pier and a clerk sold a BR pier ticket.
Boat was Maid of Orleans.
Also used to go to a level crossing further up the branch. Watched the crossing keeper open and shut the gates for a train.
You could see the railway west of central station from his flat window, and I had a 'bedtime train'. Half an hour before my big sisters 'bed time train'
 

Wyrleybart

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For the Newhaven to Dieppe Ferry, that change is at Town rather than Harbour. Despite the signs and announcements, you still get the odd one or two. Most just go 'are you sure' when you tell them where to change. It's about a 5 min walk. Across the level crossing and into the port. During the summer you might get 5 per train. On the returns I've had up to 30 waiting. A lot of bikes are often involved.

I remember the old train ferry. My last was in about 1992. Boat train from Victoria to Dover marine. Bus from Marine to Eastern Docks. RMT Ferry Prins Filip* to Ostend. Train to Basle. Also did Folkstone to Calais back in the late 70's. I remember taking an age for the train to reverse into the harbour. Calais couchette to Luzern.

IIRC the Harwich boat train was the UK's one and only EC (euro city) train when that brand was introduced. BR were very proud.

*Prins Filip now called Calais Seaways and runs Dover to Calais ferries. I made sure I travelled on it a couple of years ago. Still had the old lounges that were needed on the longer Ostend crossing. Happy memories.

Interesting stuff. Just checked my records and travelled on Prinz Phillip / fillip on Friday 21st May 1982 Folkestone-Oostende prior to doing D227 Oostende-Wien as far as Linz in Austria
 

AlbertBeale

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Used to go on Folkestone Pier with Grandad in the 1960's. We could look down on the trains in the harbour station, and see people getting on and off the boats. The cranes were still in use then. You had to pay the fee to go onto the pier and a clerk sold a BR pier ticket.
Boat was Maid of Orleans.
Also used to go to a level crossing further up the branch. Watched the crossing keeper open and shut the gates for a train.
You could see the railway west of central station from his flat window, and I had a 'bedtime train'. Half an hour before my big sisters 'bed time train'

When I was a kid, we went on holiday to Folkestone several times, and always stayed at the same B&B, in a road perpendicular to the steep rail line down to the harbour. Coming out of the B&B I always wanted to go down the hill into town via the road at the east end of "our" road, not the west end, so that we walked down the hill alongside the line, and would likely see a boat train going up or down. I remember how the laden trains often had tank engines front and back and in the middle to get them up to the sidings alongside the main line, to be hauled off to London via the 3 (as there then were) Folkestone stations.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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Yes I went from Folkestone Harbour on the Boat trains a few times too. The Ship I remember using a lot was Sealink Hengist, it was quite new then and very good. (I was also lucky enough to get on a few of the Steam Charter Trains that went up and down the Harbour Branch, they were great, especially hearing the Chuffing sound, if the loco was at the rear pushing it up. They usually did that a couple of times, the whole town must have heard it) :)
 

SouthernR

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Till recently the Heysham service was a through train from Leeds. Now i think its just from Lancaster. think it came from Stockport some years ago. Not sure why it was a through train from Leeds or Stockport.
Yes
The Heysham local electric service closed in 1966. However, boat trains continued to serve Belfast sailings until they ceased in 1975.
Manx Line started twice-daily RoRo services to Douglas in 1978, but rail services were not restarted until 1987. A photo in Martin Bairstow's Little North Western Railway book shows a 9-car dmu leaving Heysham for Stockport in 1987. There's ambition!
The trains have only ever connected with the lunchtime ferry, but I'm sure that for a time, 2 visits were made to Heysham. (It's a 1 hour round trip to Lancaster.) I also think that rail services were suspended in winter for some years. One train / day now runs all year.
It's just over 1km walk from the ferry terminal to the nearest bus stop, and about 500m to the nearest pub.
Heysham Port now has 3 linkspans for RoRo ferries, but these are mostly used for freight services to Northern Island. A fast car and passenger ferry to Belfast was trialled for a year or two (c.2000). I see that IoM Steam Packet have ordered a new ship.
 

SouthernR

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I am sure there were connections with the overnight ferries back in the 80s, thouh I have a memory that sometimes it was a bus.
I don't recall any late night trains, but I could be wrong.
Martin Bairstow says buses to/from Lancaster were used from c.1978 to 1987.
Nowadays, with the Bay Gateway (A683) a bus should be as quick as the train, even at lunchtime.
 

randyrippley

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I don't recall any late night trains, but I could be wrong.
Martin Bairstow says buses to/from Lancaster were used from c.1978 to 1987.
Nowadays, with the Bay Gateway (A683) a bus should be as quick as the train, even at lunchtime.

There weren't any late trains, only daytime starting in 1987. Until then Lonsdale Coaches of Heysham used a fleet of dedicated trailer towing Atlanteans. Some were painted Sealink Blue/Yellow, one Sherwood-era Sealink white/blue. Later these were replaced with new ex-Scottish machines painted in Steampacket red white & black. These met all sailings until the Stockport-Heysham rail service was started, at which all the buses were stopped. By then the night passenger sailing only happened on summer weekends and there was no public transport to it. This was after the Sealink-Steampacket amalgamation, and the remaining Steampacket management were determined to run down the Heysham service in favour of Liverpool

this is one of the later machines - they ended up with LCT (not my photos)


one of the earlier ones
 
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Alfonso

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In the good old days of relatively slow and expensive travel, I loved the Dover Western docks jetfoil terminal in an old ferry moored next to the station, the turbotrain waiting outside Boulogne hoverport to whisk you to Paris, the seemingly endless luggage conveyor belt alongside the walkways from Ostend station to the ferries and jetfoils
 

Springs Branch

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I did a couple of trips to Brodick on the Isle of Arran, via Ardrossan Harbour station.
Biggest novelty for me was the connection from Glasgow Central on a Class 126. Quite a different ambience on those Swindon-built units to my usual diet of Cravens, Derby & Metro-Cammell DMUs around the Manchester / Liverpool area.
Also, I seem to recall the bar onboard the CalMac boat being open for a quick breakfast pint of McEwans - another novelty in the tightly-regulated licencing environment of the 1970s (and long before the common sight of holidaymakers at airports getting tanked up in the bars at 7.30am before boarding their flights).


The other train-ferry reminiscence is around using the evening Dún Laoghaire - Holyhead Sealink sailing, then the overnight train connection towards Manchester. We always seemed to end up in a carriage with boisterous revellers getting stuck into their 1-litre bottles of duty free spirits purchased on the ship.

Things were usually starting to get messy by the time we got to Chester, where we had to change for the 03: -something DMU to Manchester Victoria. With all the drunken singing and revelry in the carriage, there was zero chance of falling asleep on the Irish Mail and missing our stop at Chester.
 

leytongabriel

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HARWICH FOR THE CONTINENT Must have been mid-sixties when we took the Hook Continental non-stop boat train to Harwich Parkeston Quay en route to a holiday exchange with a family in The Hague. Liverpool St was in its old divided state with 'the bridge' and the platform seemingly miles away. 'Painted stations rattled by' as we tried to read the names on the platforms on the way. Being non-stop was very exciting for an 8-yr old.We were probably doing about 70mph lol as it was allowed 1hr30 for 68 miles non-stop. One time the boat was modern and comfortable, the Konigen Wilhemina I think, which was one of the last ferries built primarily for foot passengers, but on another trip it seemed very old-fashioned with wooden benches, wicker reclining chairs and a lot of rock n roll. Customs at The Hook carefully checked how many bags of Dutch tulips we were taking back!
 

morrisobrien

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Barry pier had a railway station to connect with the Bristol Channel steamers.Last used for rail/steamer traffic in October 1971.Now dis-used.
 

LSWR Cavalier

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Scandinavian Seaways used to sail from Harwich to Hamburg every two days, took about 20 hours, destination Sankt Pauli Fishmarkt right by the U/S Bahn station, perfect!
Later it docked a little further out in Hamburg, then at Cuxhaven, then it ceased
 

Gloster

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Around 1989 I was travelling on the cheap overnight service from London to Paris. Usually this was via Newhaven-Dieppe, but on this night the French seamen were on strike (a frequent occurrence in those days) and we went via Dover. There was quite a wait at Western Docks station, but as it was cold BR let us stay in the EMU, which had its heating on. Eventually we were moved out to the dock to await boarding at the bottom of the gangway (one of the old fashioned style), whereupon a cold drizzle started. Most of us had kept our luggage - largely backpacks - with us, but one of the ships officers came down and announced that we should put it all on the trolleys. “Where are they?”, says he. To which somebody pointed at the one trolley that did have a few bags on it which was just heading down the ramp onto the car deck. At this point somebody got fed up and started bleating, to be joined by others and then the whole crowd just headed en masse for the gangway; the crew kept clear.
 

AlbertBeale

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I remember instances many years back of a ferry loading up at Dover Eastern Docks, and then re-berthing at Western Docks to pick up rail passengers, before heading across the Channel.

I used the Harwich-Esbjerg route before it was scrapped [well, obviously!]; but I can't now remember for certain whether the boat-train connectoin on the other side was as close and convenient as on the UK side ... I think it probably was.
 

RT4038

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I remember instances many years back of a ferry loading up at Dover Eastern Docks, and then re-berthing at Western Docks to pick up rail passengers, before heading across the Channel.

I used the Harwich-Esbjerg route before it was scrapped [well, obviously!]; but I can't now remember for certain whether the boat-train connectoin on the other side was as close and convenient as on the UK side ... I think it probably was.

I travelled on the Newcastle-Esbjerg ferry in 1995, and there was a small station (halt really) close by where the ship berthed, on a short extension line from the main station. A DMU arrived to collect passengers. I had no idea of the existence of this line, and as I was staying that night in Esbjerg, spurned the opportunity to ride. Annoyingly, because the service was discontinued later. Doh! The line from the main station to the docks still exists, but the spur to the Englandskaj has been lifted and the 'halt' obliterated. You can clearly see the junction and part of the trackbed on Google maps. The boat-train connection was not quite as close as Parkeston Quay, and involved an outside walk.
 

Gloster

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Ships started operating between Esbjerg and England in 1875, but a halt was not opened at the harbour until 1889; until 1892 it was only served by a shuttle from the main station. A longer curved platform and office were opened in 1895; but a straight platform replaced the curved one in 1951. A new station was built in 1966/67 and lasted until trains were withdrawn in 2001.
 

marsker

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A service I haven't seen mentioned here is that to Tyne Commission Quay for the ferries to Norway (At the time Bergan Line to Stavanger & Bergan and Fred Olsen Line to Oslo). There was a named train from Kings Cross - The Norseman - which arrived at Newcastle early afternoon and worked forward with a V3 tank to the TCQ. Carriage roofboards of The Norseman and Kings Cross - Tyne Commission Quay were carried. I think the train was seasonal and not every day. A connectional service ran at quieter times. I was never able to travel on it, but did manage to find the platform in the port area (Ports weren't no go areas like they are now!). The service would almost certainly be slower than the connecting bus that runs now for the Amsterdam ferry as it involved a run round in the Percy Main area.
I have recollections that the southbound service left Newcastle around 09:30. In the early 60's on Mondays it was the return working for the Kings Cross A4 that had arrived on the Sunday evening service from Kings Cross via the Durham Coast.
 

Taunton

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I've described this one before so go no further if you've seen it.

In the 1980s the North London rush hour DC trains from Watford Junction into Broad Street were diverted into Liverpool Street. These now formed a convenient connection into the morning Hook Continental from there, and thus favoured for European au-pairs from Bucks and Herts with heavy baggage and halting English returning home by the day ferry. They would be dropped off by the family at Watford Junction barrier, farewells said, and directed to the Liverpool Street DC line platform. Unfortunately at just that time the morning express to Liverpool Lime Street also used to call on the Down Fast, at the opposite side of the same island platform you have to walk along to the DC Line bays. First stop Runcorn. PA is announcing "Liverpool" and "Street", all aboard, off we go. Apparently Runcorn had to deal with this one, handed over by the guard, more than once.
 

AlbertBeale

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Has anyone mentioned the Tilbury - St Pancras route, depositing arrivals from the Colonies/Empire/Commonwealth into central London? At least one youngster from India, arriving with his father (who was moving to London from a Gandhian ashram to work for a British-based international organisation) had the sight of the inside of St Pancras station as his first experience of London - I've often wondered whether it's on account of that experience that he went on to become a prestigious architect.
 

Tio Terry

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Many years ago, in BR days, a work colleague and I would take advantage of our free/reduced rate travel to give our children - we both had two boys under the age of ten - the experience of both ferry's and trains. We would plan weekend excursions like London to Newhaven, ferry to Dieppe, train to Paris, cross Paris by Metro, TGV from Gare de Est to Lyon, trip on the Orange Train in Lyon, then back to Paris, Eiffel Tower, Gare du Nord, train to Dieppe, ferry (for some reason always seem to end up on the Chantille) back to Newhaven, twin to London and back home.

Another was Hydrofoil to Ostend, tram to Bruges then on to Blankenberge, train to The Hook and ferry to Harwich, train back to London.

The kids loved it all, gave them a lot to talk about with their friends at school!
 

52290

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Here's a photo I took in 1963 of 231K8 waiting at Boulogne Maritime waiting to depart to Paris Nord.
 

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