Getting people back on trains as lockdown eases.

[alastair]

Same with SWR, TVM for daily tickets or mess around with an app, ensuring you select the right car park etc.

Hoping the contractor parasite doesn't have a "you didn't follow the steps correctly, have a £60 invoice because we need more money for the directors Christmas holiday.

Although I did laugh when at Ockley station today, a station which has a tiny car park and no Sunday service. But will charge £1.50 for parking on a Sunday

Interested you talk about "messing around with an app". What kind of problems have you had with the Ringo app that SWR use? I've recently used it at several SWR car parks and I think it works extremely well, and you don't have to "ensure you select the right car park", the car park you are in will automatically be the default option at the top of the list. The sales process takes literally less than 10 seconds. Would you really rather trek to a machine, possibly join a queue, take a paper ticket and then back to your car to place the ticket?

 

[bramling]

Likewise on the Portsmouth line. Car parks which would normally be full by 8am (including some where spaces were only available to a select list of season ticket holders) now have half a dozen cars in them at most. Parking ticket revenue must have virtually disappeared. I doubt it would even be worth anyone's while travelling out to check if the few cars there actually have tickets?

Same on GN. The car park at my local station would normally be full to bursting by 0900, along with a significant amount of on-street parking on those local roads without residents permit restrictions. At the moment the car park at my station is barely a quarter full, some days not even that, and this has remained stubbornly the case.

 

[island]

Southeastern has recently changed contractor and all the car park ticket machines have been removed. You can only pay in the station or by app.

The machines at my local station (which were admittedly rubbish, coin only and no change for a £5.50 daily fee) were torn out years ago. The booking office sells parking fees as well as the app and pay by phone options.

 

[dk1]

The big problem for the railway industry is that they do not really know yet to what degree the commuters will return. Reorienting the railways to leisure and shift workers who have to work on site would only really make sense if office commuters do not return.

That's just it, nobody knows. Time will tell. We just have to plod on as we are until then & see what life brings

 

[route101]

Waverley absolutely rammed today, reminiscent of pre-pandemic spring weekends. Helps of course that most southbound services were delayed or cancelled due to signalling woes towards Berwick. Queues everywhere.

Yes I noticed the concourse was very busy. The queue for the toilets was something else. I sat in a 801 for two hours to go nowhere in the end.

 

[yorksrob]

I saw a pretty busy looking 4 carriage 195 (I think) on the Hallam line today, presumably doing Leeds - Nottingham.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The big problem for the railway industry is that they do not really know yet to what degree the commuters will return. Reorienting the railways to leisure and shift workers who have to work on site would only really make sense if office commuters do not return.

Agreed but what they do know is the industry has a high fixed base costs so if you are to avoid having to cut into that base to reduce costs you need to maximise income. Currently the industry has the assets (stock & infrastructure) and people resources that need to be deployed as effectively as possible otherwise the inevitable will happen. For the long term support for climate change i believe govt knows its essential to keep infrastructure intact and i see no Beeching Mk2 so the industry has to be in the lead to effect a change and Sir Peter Hendy at least has some foresight to get the conversation going. I also see Haines as realising things need to change where i see weak links are in the TOCs who have no incentive now to do anything other than play along. Some TOCs still have ambition like EMR but others especially XC seem to be running the operation to avoid attracting passengers aka the poor frequency on many routes. Of course the industry needs a wholesale shakeout and maybe we will get an inkling in the Queens Speech on 11th May of when the Williams-Shapps review is going to released.

 

[paul1609]

I think the real issue is that the income is skewed to London and the Southeast. However busy 4 car dmus are in Yorkshire provincial cities, Rail Industry income in terms of fares overall is going to be devastated.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I think the real issue is that the income is skewed to London and the Southeast. However busy 4 car dmus are in Yorkshire provincial cities, Rail Industry income in terms of fares overall is going to be devastated.

You are right. I do find though that leisure travel has picked up massively in the South East. i actually think its long distance services which are suffering the most, particularly LNER, Cross Country and Avanti, and these are the rail industry's most profitable services and routes.

 

[TheBeard]

When you don't have to wear a mask longer journeys will be better. Rather do something else until that point, thanks

 

[Peregrine 4903]

When you don't have to wear a mask longer journeys will be better. Rather do something else until that point, thanks

I do reckon that's a big factor, wearking a mask for that length of time is not pleasant.

 

[317 forever]

Agreed.

For example, I'm currently thinking of doing an East Midlands Rover at the start of June to make up for the one I had to abandon on March 23rd last year.

So I'm at the stage where I'm ok with claiming exemption from mask-wearing, I've got used to everyone else wearing the things (I'd rather they didn't, but I'm past the stage of being actively repulsed by it), and I can pretty much filter out all the irritating announcements and notices.

But now, of course, there is a new issue - LNER's 'compulsory reservations'. There goes much of the flexibility of using a Rover. And what am I supposed to do for example if I want to travel from somewhere after the ticket office is closed? I see Retford apparently closes at 6pm, for example.

This may be fairly minor in the scheme of things, but it impacts my ability to do something that previously I would have done perfectly easily (and did, regularly).

(I also appreciate that people using Rovers isn't going to be high on anyone's priority list right now, but the railways really aren't doing themselves any favours by throwing new obstacles in the way of using them for leisure travel.)

I have noticed a similar restriction with Grand Central. I feel like riding from Bradford or Halifax to Pontefract but, while the West Yorkshire bus & rail DaySaver should be valid, we require a seat reservation. Hopefully the requirement will be abolished on June 21st or whenever social distancing is scrapped.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I have noticed a similar restriction with Grand Central. I feel like riding from Bradford or Halifax to Pontefract but, while the West Yorkshire bus & rail DaySaver should be valid, we require a seat reservation. Hopefully the requirement will be abolished on June 21st or whenever social distancing is scrapped.

I fear long distance operators wanting compulsory reservations is here to stay. If they all had the LNER app i could accept it as it has some benefits but there are issues of how they are going to deal with service perturbation if there not going to let you on a train without a reservation that would be totally unacceptable.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I fear long distance operators wanting compulsory reservations is here to stay. If they all had the LNER app i could accept it as it has some benefits but there are issues of how they are going to deal with service perturbation if there not going to let you on a train without a reservation that would be totally unacceptable.

Too be fair though, its only LNER that have actually introduced it. Avanti might go on about reservations recommended but they genuinley couldn't care less about seat reservations.

 

[Killingworth]

Same on GN. The car park at my local station would normally be full to bursting by 0900, along with a significant amount of on-street parking on those local roads without residents permit restrictions. At the moment the car park at my station is barely a quarter full, some days not even that, and this has remained stubbornly the case.

Same here in Sheffield. Commuting to Manchester has all but dried up. Just a month or so after TPE finally went to 6 car on the South Pennine route and some trains may have little more than 6 passengers! The car park at Dore & Totley is still all but deserted at 7.30 when last February it would have been full and already overflowing.

There's little sign of a return, although the Hope Valley stopping trains are doing quite well on nice sunny days from leisure users, possibly better than before the pandemic.

On the one hand the government is pouring billions into support for public transport, and on the other it's telling us not to use it and to work from home. If you drive along motorways you'll see signs lit every few miles to make you feel guilty about travelling - although it isn't stopping many as they now seem to be as busy as ever!

The Coronavirus (COVID-19): safer travel guidance for passengers remains a most depressing document.

 

[yorksrob]

According to Modern Railways April issue, the DfT have effectively banned the railway industry from promoting rail travel until 26th of June, so the industry is effectively under the cosh from SAGE.

 

[NorthOxonian]

According to Modern Railways April issue, the DfT have effectively banned the railway industry from promoting rail travel until 26th of June, so the industry is effectively under the cosh from SAGE.

Considering many bus operators are already heavily promoting their services now (and others will start doing so in a fortnight), that seems like a ridiculous demand. If one part of the transport industry can encourage travel, why can't another?

 

[yorksrob]

Considering many bus operators are already heavily promoting their services now (and others will start doing so in a fortnight), that seems like a ridiculous demand. If one part of the transport industry can encourage travel, why can't another?

I agree entirely.

It does go some way to explaining why some TOC's are still operating lockdown timetables.

 

[dk1]

According to Modern Railways April issue, the DfT have effectively banned the railway industry from promoting rail travel until 26th of June, so the industry is effectively under the cosh from SAGE.

GA are sponsoring ITV Anglia weather & have been throughout most of the pandemic. TV advertising & billboards are continuing but only with the hare telling us that trains are being cleaned regularly & that passengers should wear face coverings. There are however many promotions & advertising all done & ready to be rolled out when the DfT give the green light.

 

[Ianno87]

According to Modern Railways April issue, the DfT have effectively banned the railway industry from promoting rail travel until 26th of June, so the industry is effectively under the cosh from SAGE.

Looking At most TOC Twitter feeds / websites, they are generally "netrual" in neither actively promoting nor actively discouraging travel (usually with "travel safely" type messages).

Passengers are, however, returning gradually and organically, so personally I wouldn't be too worried - there's no massive need to go from 0 to 60 in a snap.

 

[VauxhallandI]

GA are sponsoring ITV Anglia weather & have been throughout most of the pandemic. TV advertising & billboards are continuing but only with the hare telling us that trains are being cleaned regularly & that passengers should wear face coverings. There are however many promotions & advertising all done & ready to be rolled out when the DfT give the green light.

Indeed all those adverts do are fully ensure I avoid their services. Here’s hoping for the near future improvements

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

FT ran an article entitled Season ticket reforms to be at heart of getting UK’s trains back on track a few days back

The Department for Transport has written to rail operators asking them to draw up plans for flexible season tickets, and officials hope to roll out the changes by the end of the summer. Although plans have not been finalised, they are expected to offer savings of hundreds of pounds compared to a regular season ticket. “We are committed to providing a more flexible, modern ticketing system for passengers. That is why we are looking at ways to make this a reality for commuters, including flexible season tickets,” DfT said.

Good to see there is recognition by DofT that pricing needs to change if they are going to entice people back. Everyone travelling into a city is potentially going to spend some cash there so that supports service type jobs as well.

 

[Greybeard33]

Considering many bus operators are already heavily promoting their services now (and others will start doing so in a fortnight), that seems like a ridiculous demand. If one part of the transport industry can encourage travel, why can't another?

The average time each passenger spends on a bus is less than on a train and the passenger capacity of a bus is less than of a railway carriage. Therefore the risk of an infectious passenger transmitting the virus is lower on a bus.

Furthermore most buses have opening droplight windows and ventilation is enhanced by the doors opening at the frequent stops. Whereas most railway carriages are air conditioned with a relatively low air change rate. This further reduces the comparative risk of virus transmission on a bus.

 

[island]

Looking At most TOC Twitter feeds / websites, they are generally "netrual" in neither actively promoting nor actively discouraging travel (usually with "travel safely" type messages).

Passengers are, however, returning gradually and organically, so personally I wouldn't be too worried - there's no massive need to go from 0 to 60 in a snap.

Southeastern were still displaying “travel only if necessary” messaging when I used their services today.

FT ran an article entitled Season ticket reforms to be at heart of getting UK’s trains back on track a few days back


Good to see there is recognition by DofT that pricing needs to change if they are going to entice people back. Everyone travelling into a city is potentially going to spend some cash there so that supports service type jobs as well.

Didn’t the outcome of that get published a couple of weeks ago which came out saying they would do a 5 return journey Carnet to be used in a month at 85% of the weekly season price?

 

[Ianno87]

Southeastern were still displaying “travel only if necessary” messaging when I used their services today.

Notice my use of the word "generally".

 

[Jamesrob637]

Looking At most TOC Twitter feeds / websites, they are generally "netrual" in neither actively promoting nor actively discouraging travel (usually with "travel safely" type messages).

Passengers are, however, returning gradually and organically, so personally I wouldn't be too worried - there's no massive need to go from 0 to 60 in a snap.

"Travel safely" should have been around even pre-COVID!

 

[dk1]

Indeed all those adverts do are fully ensure I avoid their services. Here’s hoping for the near future improvements

Why do you avoid us?

 

[VauxhallandI]

Why do you avoid us?

I’ve kept my train journeys to a minimum as I don’t like the bombardment of safety messages and so if a TOC is actively spending money on TV ads about it I assume the attitude of the staff and messaging in station and on board to match (rightly or wrongly)

Hope to be back soon though! I fancy a go on the new units they look good.

 

[Ianno87]

I’ve kept my train journeys to a minimum as I don’t like the bombardment of safety messages and so if a TOC is actively spending money on TV ads about it I assume the attitude of the staff and messaging in station and on board to match (rightly or wrongly)

Hope to be back soon though! I fancy a go on the new units they look good.

So you're avoiding train because of a problem you've invented in your own head? Yes, there are more safety messages than normal (which actually if anything mean less "See It Say It Sorted" etc than usual). A "Bombardment" is certainly not what I'd describe it as.

 

[VauxhallandI]

So you're avoiding train because of a problem you've invented in your own head? Yes, there are more safety messages than normal (which actually if anything mean less "See It Say It Sorted" etc than usual). A "Bombardment" is certainly not what I'd describe it as.

Well I went on LO on Saturday and the messaging was annoying, happy to be correct if GA don’t do it.

One mans bombardment is another mans light shower.

I do my upmost to avoid Covid messaging when I leave the house so that means I’ve been restricted to walking the park for months.