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Glasgow/Edinburgh to Inverness Sleepers

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Nightrider

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Does anybody know when these two sleeper trains were stopped.
What other UK sleeper trains have gone off the rails?
I,m sure there used to be a Glasgow/Bristol sleeper until the late 1970s.
 
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4SRKT

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I used all these trains a number of times in the 1980s. Always on the cushions though; to this day I've never been inside a sleeping car. They were an ideal positioning move for the 06:35 Inverness > Wick/Thurso and 06:55 to Kyle, although there was about 2 hours festering to be endured in Inverness. You always got woken up at Perth by the shunting joining the two portions together.

On one trip in 1984 I used the Edinburgh > Inverness sleeper one night, and the Edinburgh > Bristol the following. On the Bristol, there was an ETH problem (it was February!) and by the time we got to Birmingham we were completely frozen. I was actually quite worried about my dad who is quite bronchial. There was a steam heat peak with working boiler waiting at New St to take over from the 81 that had worked from Glasgow. Never have I been so glad to see a loco!


In the early to mid-80s other sleepers were about 4 departures a night from Kings Cross to Edinburgh and Aberdeen; a nightly Glasgow > Aberdeen working; departures from Euston to Glasgow (went via Dumfries), Stranraer Harbour, Liverpool/Manchester (split at Stafford), Barrow in Furness, and Inverness/Fort William. This last went via Mossend Yard where it split and and a duff hauled the Inverness portion onwards. The Fort William portion (2 sleeping cars, 2 standard mk II aircon seating coaches) ran into Glasgow Queen St, where a 37 + 2-3 mk Is or older mk IIs were attached and the train went out as the 05:50 morning departure to FW. There were only 2 or 3 trains a day from Glasgow to FW then, and if you missed that one, on winter weekdays there was nothing else until 16:50. After the mk III sleepers replaced mk Is on this service, 3 class 25s were converted to mobile ETH units to be placed between the 37 and the stock to power the heat and aircon. Before this the dual heated mk I sleepers could be heated by the loco's boiler. This lasted only until the 37/4s came in (1986?)

There was also a single sleeping car attached to the Holyhead > Euston train that left Holyhead about 01:30 am. There was no sleeper service the other way, the sleeping car being moved to Holyhead empty on a Euston > Holyhead daytime working.

From Paddington there was the Night Riviera, which ran pretty much as it does now, except it stopped at Bristol and seated passengers could use it to/from there.

Most sleepers conveyed quite a bit of seating accomodation, much more than the meagre amount on today's Caledonian Sleepers. They were usually just ordinary non-aircon mk IIs though, without the luxury of the reclining seats you get now. Mk III sleepers were progressivley introduced on the more prestigious routes first, with the last Mk Is going from the internal Scottish sleepers by about 1985.

There were also overnight seating only trains, mainly mk I stock, running on the ECML and WCML to destinations in Scotland, serving most station en route, including Leeds. Although the ECML workings were usually class 47s, anything could drop on these, from a 31 to a 40 to a 46. Fishguard had an HST to Paddington at 01:50 which I used a number of times, and there was a great overnight train from Waterloo to Weymouth. Most mail trains conveyed an SK or BSK to provide limited passenger accomodation overnight, and these were really useful services :)
 
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gordonthemoron

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I did Nottingham-Newark-Edinburgh connecting into the Edinburgh-Inverness sleeper and then into the 06:35 Inverness-Wick on my November 88 trip. There was no bloody heating from Inverness-Wick.

There also used to be a Newcastle-KX sleeper that ran via Sunderland & Hartlepool which I saw in 1979
 

4SRKT

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I,m sure there was also Bristol/Glasgow sleeper.

The Edinburgh > Bristol was a portion off the Glasgow > Bristol sleeper. It ran in both directions so there was also a Bristol > Glasgow/Edinburgh working.
 

Foxhound

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In the late 80s early 90s, before the V word got involved, the up Night Scot (1S19?) started at Plymouth. It was a solid move for long range duffs - if you were into that sort of thing....
 
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rail-britain

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There were two internal Scottish sleepers
Glasgow - Aberdeen
Edinburgh - Inverness

The idea behind the Edinburgh - Inverness sleeper was that it allowed a day return to Orkney

The Glasgow - Aberdeen was useful in the early days of the oil industry in Aberdeen, where accomodation was at a shortage and premium
 

route101

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Didnt know there was a Aberdeen sleeper too? Can you imagine the journey time on that :lol:
 

rail-britain

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Didnt know there was a Aberdeen sleeper too? Can you imagine the journey time on that
The Aberdeen sleeper cheated, as it was tagged on the last Glasgow - Aberdeen service
On arrival the sleeper was then shunted into Platform 2
However right next to it would be a HST power car...
Great wake up call at 05:30
 

route101

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The Aberdeen sleeper cheated, as it was tagged on the last Glasgow - Aberdeen service
On arrival the sleeper was then shunted into Platform 2
However right next to it would be a HST power car...
Great wake up call at 05:30

Yeah that would wake you up.
So with the last Glasgow to Aberdeen service you had a choice of staying overnight on the train.:p
 

rail-britain

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So with the last Glasgow to Aberdeen service you had a choice of staying overnight on the train
No, the ScotRail Express service only went to Dundee, sitting for about one hour at Perth and thus connecting with the Edinburgh - Inverness
There was an Aberdeen - Perth, and the driver from this would then take thi set back to Aberdeen, arriving at about 02:00

With the withdrawal of the sleepers this diagram swapped to a Dundee, which then ran ECS to Edinburgh
 

oldrailman

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Hi all, in 1978, stationed at RAF Kinloss, I regularly used an overnight service Inverness to Glasgow Queen Street to spend the weekend in Coatbridge with my fiance. I think it left Inverness around 11pm and into Queen Street between 4 or 5am. Going north I think it was 11.30pm (ish), into Inverness about 5am. Pretty sure it had a sleeping car on. As I recall, haulage was 26, 27 or 47. Going north it was a good 'doss' after grabbing a pie and chips supper then enjoying a nice warm Mk1 compo.:lol:
 

Moog_1984

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The glasgow+edinburgh- Bristol / plymouth service was running in 1985 as an ETH train: Supposedly I am now "lucky" to have a peak /1 on it both ways south of brum. Hmm

The inverness sleeper trains were boilered until 1983 according to my haulage books: 47/4s and 6s took over in 1984:But allowing a 40 to work one in 83 for the last time on this service which used to be a regular. John Baker was the second man as far as Perth, it did go forward with a duff though IIRC.

I haven't got my book for 1983 anymore, but the 40 was a spare loco at ED and swapped onto the train, after vandalism to a 47. Some railway staff blamed enthusiasts for this, such that the 40 would be the obvious choice, but the 40 too had a bricked out window...2nd mans side! Poor John Baker. Just "springburn neds" bricking trains at the "Pole Position" Eastfield south!

The southbound services crossed at Pitlochry (usually! Although I seem to remember dunkeld and braemar featuring on over nights in 1982-3) for a crew change and a "bail" for bashers, many of whom slept through.

As yur man says above, it was pretty reasonable to get to the early far north trains and if you were lucky, the Wick/thurso would be a double headed 26 or 37 service ( change of loco for the wick portion at Georgemas junction)

The other internal scottish "sleeper" move was not a sleeper per se, but an overnight with compartment stock from Perth to Elgin via Aberdeen mail train, with a nice connection from 1S81. ( 4Exx IIRC)

In the 1970s there was also a sleeper from Oban...can't remember where it went?
 

Moog_1984

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Those two are only a good 100 miles apart!

Dunkeld And Birnam!

Sorry, Blair Atholl! :oops: Wrong side of the Lairig ghru altogether.

It's only 120 miles odd Perth to Inverness.

Probably more reliable cross when it was 40s on the route.
 

The Big Boo

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Glasgow- Inverness

Inverness- Glasgow.

Detach table and cushions and place table across seat, cushions on top and welcome to dozy land.

The sleeper did a £1 special in Feb '84 when we had a week up there- happy days.
 

Toad

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Those were the days.....

20.50 Carlisle to Perth, 81-85 to Mossend, 26, 27, 37 forward (this then went to Aberdeen at some stupid hour from Perth)
Anyway, off at Stirling for a 47 to Perth for the other 47 to Inverness.(had some big ones to Inverness on this, 47 539 Rochdale Pioneers and 47444444 University of Nottingham to name a few)
Get the gronk in at Inverness while dossed out, 717 or 754 me thinks.
37 to Dingwall, 37 to Achnasheen, 37 back to Dingwall, 37 to Inverness, leap to Aberdeen on whatever dropped, 47 to Dundee, 27 to Edinburgh, 47/Sparkie back home.

Dreadful !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

The Big Boo

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Those were the days.....

20.50 Carlisle to Perth, 81-85 to Mossend, 26, 27, 37 forward (this then went to Aberdeen at some stupid hour from Perth)Anyway, off at Stirling for a 47 to Perth for the other 47 to Inverness.(had some big ones to Inverness on this, 47 539 Rochdale Pioneers and 47444444 University of Nottingham to name a few)
Get the gronk in at Inverness while dossed out, 717 or 754 me thinks.
37 to Dingwall, 37 to Achnasheen, 37 back to Dingwall, 37 to Inverness, leap to Aberdeen on whatever dropped, 47 to Dundee, 27 to Edinburgh, 47/Sparkie back home.

Dreadful !!!!!!!!!!!!

The infamous 01.10 Perth- Aberdeen
 

4SRKT

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I am now almost literally in tears thinking about what we have lost from the railway system. Properly interesting and eccentric workings. Who can forget the excitement of being woken in the small hours by the sleeper being shunted at Perth? The lonely growl of the duff across the moors in the dark after waking up at Carrbridge? Waking up at Lairg in a fug of steam to look out of the window and the only sounds being the growl of the 37 wreathed in steam, and the thud of mailbags hitting the platform? Non-Scottish examples might include taking the York > Shrewsbury mail train on a Friday night to pick up the 04:08 Shrewsbury > Aberystwyth SO double headed 37s; basing yourself at Salisbury for a day of 33s, 50s and DEMUs (a personal favourite of mine this one); or rambling across Ireland from Limerick Jn to Rosslare in a ramshackle collection of wooden-bodied stock and steam generator van behind a small GM.

I have a lump in my throat at the thought that the world will never, ever again witness such things. We were present at the very end of decades of basically unchanged railway practice. Little did we know at the time that within 10 years it would all be gone :(
 
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flymo

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I am now almost literally in tears thinking about what we have lost from the railway system. Properly interesting and eccentric workings. Who can forget the excitement of being woken in the small hours by the sleeper being shunted at Perth? The lonely growl of the duff across the moors in the dark after waking up at Carrbridge? Waking up at Lairg in a fug of steam to look out of the window and the only sounds being the growl of the 37 wreathed in steam, and the thud of mailbags hitting the platform? Non-Scottish examples might include taking the York > Shrewsbury mail train on a Friday night to pick up the 04:08 Shrewsbury > Aberystwyth SO double headed 37s; basing yourself at Salisbury for a day of 33s, 50s and DEMUs (a personal favourite of mine this one); or rambling across Ireland from Limerick Jn to Rosslare in a ramshackle collection of wooden-bodied stock and steam generator van behind a small GM.

I have a lump in my throat at the thought that the world will never, ever again witness such things. We were present at the very end of decades of basically unchanged railway practice. Little did we know at the time that within 10 years it would all be gone :(

Well said that man !!

I know BR had its fair share of problems and was far from anything like a perfect service but I do look back now with so much affection on the all line rovers I did in the 80's. So many services to choose from at any time of the day or night. The sound, smell and atmosphere of a loco just isn't something you forget. Just wish I had taken more photos back then...
 

The Big Boo

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Well said that man !!

I know BR had its fair share of problems and was far from anything like a perfect service but I do look back now with so much affection on the all line rovers I did in the 80's. So many services to choose from at any time of the day or night. The sound, smell and atmosphere of a loco just isn't something you forget. Just wish I had taken more photos back then...

the East Coast Overnights?

1A40, 1A41, 1E35, IL00 et al.

of course there is the 06.30 Inverness - Wick- you know it- the rolling stock you piled onto off the GLA-IS overnight- whipped out your space blanket, smothered yourself in it and woke up fully toasted around Brora.
 

4SRKT

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of course there is the 06.30 Inverness - Wick- you know it- the rolling stock you piled onto off the GLA-IS overnight- whipped out your space blanket, smothered yourself in it and woke up fully toasted around Brora.

That was the one I was referring to with the waking up at Lairg reference.

Another one I liked was using the York > Shrewsbury Mail to Stockport to pick up the Manchester > Euston sleeper. This was ideal for an early start in London in the days when the first train off York was the 06:20 and didn't get into the Cross until around 09:00. Mind you the 04:45 arrival at Euston was none-too-palatable: a mate and I once walked to Liverpool Street from Euston off this in order to get Forest Gate > Barking. I wonder how many parents nowadays would let their 15 year old sons travel overnight from York to London via Stockport, then walk to Liverpool Street in the wee small hours?
 

Statto

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That was the one I was referring to with the waking up at Lairg reference.

Another one I liked was using the York > Shrewsbury Mail to Stockport to pick up the Manchester > Euston sleeper. This was ideal for an early start in London in the days when the first train off York was the 06:20 and didn't get into the Cross until around 09:00. Mind you the 04:45 arrival at Euston was none-too-palatable: a mate and I once walked to Liverpool Street from Euston off this in order to get Forest Gate > Barking. I wonder how many parents nowadays would let their 15 year old sons travel overnight from York to London via Stockport, then walk to Liverpool Street in the wee small hours?

That's some walk that,
It's a shame that no Sleepers operate other than to/from Carlisle & Scotland & the Padd Plymouth/Penzance Sleeper[strangely First hold franchises for all the Sleeper services], i'm envious at the early starts you could have had in those days, i'd love to got into London before 5:30am[although i can get into Heathrow for 5:40 using NEX Coaches].
Think the Liverpool/Manchester-London Sleepers were withdrawn around 1992.
 

flymo

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of course there is the 06.30 Inverness - Wick- you know it- the rolling stock you piled onto off the GLA-IS overnight- whipped out your space blanket, smothered yourself in it and woke up fully toasted around Brora.

Yes I remember it well. Not the sort of thing you forget after getting chucked out of the seats in Inverness at 0450..:lol: I don't think I slept that whole night, the shunting at Perth, the sound of the train over the moors and a clear moonlit night were all just too awesome to miss. I was too hard up to get a sleeper then anyway, just had a seat.
 

4SRKT

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Yes I remember it well. Not the sort of thing you forget after getting chucked out of the seats in Inverness at 0450..:lol: I don't think I slept that whole night, the shunting at Perth, the sound of the train over the moors and a clear moonlit night were all just too awesome to miss. I was too hard up to get a sleeper then anyway, just had a seat.


I went in the sleeping car for the first time ever last year, on a work trip, yet I've lost count of the number of times I've used sleeper services in the 80s and 90s. My father was a railwayman so we had privs and I think it was a point of principle for him NEVER to pay for any rail fares, so even though the sleeper would have been relatively cheap, we were always on the cushions.
 

gingerheid

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Route map from 1974 on this site: http://home.comcast.net/~rogerandtess2/pickedup/pickedup082.jpg

There was a Glasgow - Bournemouth service too until the late 80s / early nineties. Used it a lot for day trips from Glasgow to Oxford / Reading / Winchester until they took off the seated carriage and it was too expensive.

I do have a little nostalgia for the past; some of the special things that I enjoyed infrequently are gone forever.

However the modern railway is a lot better at the things I do more often (faster and more frequent trains to the nearest city), so on balance I wouldn't want to turn back the clock because the service has become more practical, if less enjoyable.
 
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12CSVT

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In the late 80s early 90s, before the V word got involved, the up Night Scot (1S19?) started at Plymouth. It was a solid move for long range duffs - if you were into that sort of thing....

Although just about any variant of type 4 (except class 40s) could work 1S19 to Birmingham until about 1988. For example the first time I travelled on it (July 1986), it was 45133 to Birmingham (banked up lickey by 37149+37229) and 81019 from Brum. Next time I travelled on it (July 1987) it was 50036 to Brum (37235+37697 banking).
 

Moog_1984

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Route map from 1974 on this site: http://home.comcast.net/~rogerandtess2/pickedup/pickedup082.jpg



I do have a little nostalgia for the past; some of the special things that I enjoyed infrequently are gone forever.

However the modern railway is a lot better at the things I do more often (faster and more frequent trains to the nearest city), so on balance I wouldn't want to turn back the clock because the service has become more practical, if less enjoyable.

??? Did you ever compare the sprinter time table when they came in on the WH Line to the year before's 37 timetable? 30 mins longer to Oban with plastic, they had to fudge the timetable in outgoing loco hauled with an hour dumbarton to glasgow.

Then there's Glasgow-edinburgh & Aberdeen: faster with shov duffs in 1982 than they are now with plastic.

The ft bill sleeper was probably quicker in some of its BR incarnations than now, no big loss there, and it took years for anything as fast as the Royal Scot "Up" on the WCML from 1979 !! ( Maggie thatcher had allegeldy a direct effect on this: she wanted it slowed to make the newly privatised BA more attractive on its shuttle to London)

Pendolinos and refurbished trams are great for zipping around on, but plastic dmus have not done anything for express and semi fast long distance services other than go slower and usually reduce capacity.
'
Road and Air lobby, 2-0
 

Whistler40145

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did the Scottish Region ever use the Sleeper services to get locos to Fort William, Inverness & Aberdeen following a failure or to provide spare locos?

e.g. a pair of 40s instead of a single 40?
 
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