Glasgow Subway trains first in UK to run with no staff on board

[Tetchytyke]

I don't think I ever heard of someone being killed in a lift or on an escalator in the UK, and if there was I suspect they just fell down the latter like they could have done a flight of regular stairs.

There aren't many deaths, but they do happen, including someone killed at a London gym about ten years ago when the lift malfunctioned and dragged them into the gap between the door and the wall.

There was a case in Spain very recently where a woman in hospital who had just given birth was chopped in half as the lift malfunctioned and shot upwards whilst her trolley was half in and half out of the lift.

Yes, agreed. It's difficult to see what all the fuss is about.

Where Metro systems are designed, in entirety, to be staff-free, there may be fewer issues. A walkway in the tunnel helps (something Glasgow doesn't have).

"The fuss" is about those instances where something happens between stations requiring evacuation or incident control. We saw with Thameslink at Kentish Town that one person is not capable of safely managing a situation where a train breaks down between stations. No staff at all isn't going to make it better.

How many PTI incidents have other unattended metro systems in the world had?

It isn't just (or even mainly) about PTI incidents, though. Look at the experiences of the staff-free Dubai Metro: every time their signalling system falls over, trains get trapped for hours.

 

[matt_world2004]

Do you have an information about that incident? I've googled a bit and haven't found any information about it. There is a mention in a FOI request which mentions various incidents, but these mostly seem to be people being hit/trapped by the doors, but either on the platform or the train, but not getting stuck in between.


Only half height with unmanned operation? Sounds very dodgy to me!

Sorry no. It was mentioned on here or district daves.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

As mentioned above, a few overseas metros run like this, Lille I think and one of the Paris metro lines. Back in the 1960s when the London Transport Victoria line opened, I think it was designed then for driverless operation, not sure if the Jubilee line is too?

 

[DuncanS]

About time, they were talking about this when I moved to Glasgow in the 90s. Then it was said that customers felt comfortable with a driver.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It isn't just (or even mainly) about PTI incidents, though. Look at the experiences of the staff-free Dubai Metro: every time their signalling system falls over, trains get trapped for hours.

To be fair the UK isn't bad at doing this with trains with a driver and guard on board.

 

[Taunton]

It was actually suggested when the last complete rebuilding of the Subway took place, in the 1970s, and occupied the Evening Times newspaper for quite a while. At the time the Subway was still notably staff intensive, with manned ticket offices, platforms, and two-crew trains, and paper tickets. There were some efficiencies - the driver himself collected the tickets from those leaving the train by the front door - but it was a lot of staffing and there was scope for efficiency.

It was seriously suggested to run completely automated, with entrance turnstiles and platform doors. At the time the graduated fares I seem to recall were (don't laugh) 6p, 9p and 12p. The proposal was a simple 10p in the turnstile, and there was an uproar from the 6p users, which I think covered up to three stations. I think the main deterrent was there was no commercially proven system on the market for complete automation.

 

[laseandre]

Well, folks, the new trains have finally surfaced to the public at InnoTrans. Surely now we will hear more about the driverless operation plans?

https://twitter.com/InnoTrans/status/1040592486211760128

 

[GreatAuk]

I think it's great that over 100 years since it started running the subway is still innovating .

With reference to the early issues Dubai had, I understand the plan is for the trains to have a driver on board for the first year or so, until any initial problems have been ironed out.

I don't see any reason why these driverless trains can't be just as safe (or more safe) than trains with drivers as long as the appropriate systems are in place. It remains to be seen exactly what the engineered systems are and what the emergency procedures will be etc, but I think for now we can probably trust that the multiple layers of approval and safety management won't allow the trains to run driverless unless it has been properly assessed.

I hope that this supports the efficient running of the subway and can act as an example of successful driverless operation for other systems around the country

 

[Dstock7080]

Well, folks, the new trains have finally surfaced to the public at InnoTrans. Surely now we will hear more about the driverless operation plans?

Still fitted with cabs.
Info board.

 

[Tube driver]

Dunno about this driverless lark but when Glasgow does away with the cab if they could send those drivers seats down to LUL, we'd be eternally grateful.

They look well comfy!

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Have a look at this video. It looks like that the drivers controls can be made to disappear...

 

[Clip]

I think it's great that over 100 years since it started running the subway is still innovating .

How is it innovating this time around?

 

[ModernRailways]

Have a look at this video. It looks like that the drivers controls can be made to disappear...

One end of the train has a full cab, the other end has the driving controls under a seat. Eventually, the aim is to remove the full cab and replace it with seating and just have the driving controls under the seat.

 

[GreatAuk]

How is it innovating this time around?

By being the first proper passenger railway in the UK to (hopefully) implement unattended operation.

 

[Strathclyder]

Really like the look of these, both inside and out. Am particularly besotted with the moquette on the seats & the P.I screens. Will be interesting to see how the articulated formation behaves in real life, particularly on the section of track just outside Cowcaddens (headed towards/away from Buchanan Street). All that said, onwards & upwards to these entering service!

 

[TRAX]

These look horrid. They look like a cheap plastic toy (and I’m not even part of the "eww modern trains are plastic" family).

 

[PaxVobiscum]

One end of the train has a full cab, the other end has the driving controls under a seat. Eventually, the aim is to remove the full cab and replace it with seating and just have the driving controls under the seat.

I hope the seat will be locked in place otherwise it might be used as a commode on a Friday or Saturday night.

 

[greyman42]

Really like the look of these, both inside and out. Am particularly besotted with the moquette on the seats & the P.I screens. Will be interesting to see how the articulated formation behaves in real life, particularly on the section of track just outside Cowcaddens (headed towards/away from Buchanan Street). All that said, onwards & upwards to these entering service!

What happens on this section of track and why?

 

[Hapless]

What happens on this section of track and why?

Would imagine he means from St George's cross into Cowcaddens. Very tight bend and adverse camber, train crawls along this bit. Another section is Shields Rd to Kinning Park which has a very short but rather steep incline, trains go pretty slow here also.

 

[Strathclyder]

Would imagine he means from St George's cross into Cowcaddens. Very tight bend and adverse camber, train crawls along this bit. Another section is Shields Rd to Kinning Park which has a very short but rather steep incline, trains go pretty slow here also.

Yeah, that's the section of track I was referring to. Cheers, got my stations mixed up there lol

 

[Fireless]

are the trains computer controlled or driven remotely by humans (like Nuremburg u-bahn)?

The norm (also applies Nuremberg) is to have the trains and trackside equipment under computer control but there is always a staffed control room to supervise the system and its passengers and intervene, if required.

 

[Andrew Nelson]

Happy to be corrected, but I seem to remember from 1979 that even the present stock is computer controlled and capable of driverless operation, and that a compromise was reached with unions that the drivers would start the train and the the rest would be automatic.

Like the Victoria line?

 

[Meerkat]

Is it just me who would prefer to have staff on the near empty trains rather than the peak ones if I had to choose?