Gloucester resignalling design contract awarded

[jimm]

Hitachi Rail has been chosen to develop a new digital signalling system to replace the Gloucester area panel.

Hitachi Rail and Linbrooke have been awarded a contract by Network Rail to design digital signalling technology specifically for the Gloucester area.

This digital signalling solution will be a significant upgrade, replacing the current switch panel that was installed in the 1960s. The introduction of digital Signalling Command Control (SCC) system gives the operator complete picture of the network and automated updates. This will enable Network Rail to respond more effectively to any issues or incidents, reducing passenger disruption and improving management of rail traffic.

Hitachi Rail awarded contract to design digital signalling solution to improve reliability and safety for Gloucester area - Rail Engineer

Listen to this article Hitachi Rail and Linbrooke have been awarded a contract by Network Rail to design digital signalling technology specifically for the Gloucester area. This digital signalling solution will be a significant upgrade, replacing the current switch panel that was installed in...

www.railengineer.co.uk

 

[ABB125]

Does anyone know if this will include any track alterations, or simply be like-for-like replacement of the existing signals (or even simply putting a new control system in the signal box and leaving all the existing signals and wires as they are)?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The contract is for design, so on its own won't deliver anything, but you'd expect NR to follow up with a delivery contract.
It's interesting that the Gloucester setup will be independent of the ROCs at Didcot, Cardiff and Saltley, remaining an isolated island between those three.
In signalling, Hitachi are the successors to Ansaldo STS, who designed Manchester South and Cambrian ETCS.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

A third passenger line over Horton Road level crossing is desperately needed so let’s hope that’s within scope.

 

[JonathanH]

Surely anything coming up for renewal at the moment runs the risk of being heaving descoped given the parlous financial state of the railway / country?

 

[ABB125]

A third passenger line over Horton Road level crossing is desperately needed so let’s hope that’s within scope.

Going towards Bristol, or towards Cheltenham?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Well the extra line would be the current Up Goods Loop on the Cheltenham side, but that would provide much more flexibility for parallel moves, for instance allowing trains from P4 (to Cheltenham) and P2 (to Bristol) to depart at the same time, while something else is in P1.

 

[apinnard]

The pessimist in me cannot see this going well. Hitachi Rail STS in its previous guise struggled to get to grips with the Manchester South project. And then the kit all failed in miraculous fashion last year.

 

[30907]

Well the extra line would be the current Up Goods Loop on the Cheltenham side, but that would provide much more flexibility for parallel moves, for instance allowing trains from P4 (to Cheltenham) and P2 (to Bristol) to depart at the same time, while something else is in P1.

It would be fairly standard practice these days for all lines to be signalled to passenger standards.

 

[John Webb]

....It's interesting that the Gloucester setup will be independent of the ROCs at Didcot, Cardiff and Saltley, remaining an isolated island between those three....

Network Rail announced earlier this year a significant step-back from consolidating all signalling into the dozen or so ROCs as they had previously considered doing. Seems to be mainly a result of the pandemic making them realise perhaps having most of their eggs in a few baskets might cause problems they'd not anticipated. In my part of the network (MML) we've heard that West Hampstead PSB, opened around 1979 with an eNtrance-eXit (NX) system will be refurbished with a modern VDU system rather than moving control to the East Midlands ROC at Derby.

 

[collexions]

The pessimist in me cannot see this going well. Hitachi Rail STS in its previous guise struggled to get to grips with the Manchester South project. And then the kit all failed in miraculous fashion last year.

I've seen the H-STS WSP HS+ system demo'd in Genoa in early 2020, and the architecture has moved on massively since the Manchester South deployment in early 2000s. If anything the complexity of the system, used in both Mainline and Metro applications in eight countries across five continents, will probably be a sledgehammer to crack a nut for a couple of panels of up and down railway in Gloucestershire.

Network Rail announced earlier this year a significant step-back from consolidating all signalling into the dozen or so ROCs as they had previously considered doing. Seems to be mainly a result of the pandemic making them realise perhaps having most of their eggs in a few baskets might cause problems they'd not anticipated. In my part of the network (MML) we've heard that West Hampstead PSB, opened around 1979 with an eNtrance-eXit (NX) system will be refurbished with a modern VDU system rather than moving control to the East Midlands ROC at Derby.

Same in the South West where first workstations from Mid-East Cornwall will move onto the Exeter PSB Ops Floor in 2023. There are also plans to make a West Wales ROC 'somewhere west of Swansea' now too I understand.

 

[Mintona]

Hoping we might get some flashing yellows for Standish and Gloucester, that would help speed things up a bit.

 

[QueensCurve]

Does anyone know if this will include any track alterations, or simply be like-for-like replacement of the existing signals (or even simply putting a new control system in the signal box and leaving all the existing signals and wires as they are)?

Gloucester has always struck me as a location much in need of a siimplification of the track layout. Perhaps the time penalty for reversal there could be reduced.

Surely anything coming up for renewal at the moment runs the risk of being heaving descoped given the parlous financial state of the railway / country?

A nation with a sovereign currency can never be "broke". Nevertheless, we have politicians in office who represent the interests that benefit from austerity. Sunak has austerity booked in for the coming years. https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ding-for-new-era-of-austerity-thinktank-warns

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Railway Gazette has this detail in its piece on the contract:

Network Rail has awarded Hitachi Rail and Linbrooke a 12-month contract to design a digital Signalling Command Control system for the Gloucester area. Based on the Wayside Standard Platform, this will replace the current switch panel installed in the 1960s. The contract announced on October 12 ‘is a significant milestone for Hitachi Rail’s signalling business in the UK’, said Nick Hughes, Sales Director UK & Ireland.

I've not heard the term "Wayside Standard Platform" before.

 

[Pete_uk]

Hoping we might get some flashing yellows for Standish and Gloucester, that would help speed things up a bit.

A good high-ish speed turnout for trains going to Swindon and beyond would help. It's silly breaking from 90 or so down to 40 then having to accelerate up the hill.

 

[The Planner]

A good high-ish speed turnout for trains going to Swindon and beyond would help. It's silly breaking from 90 or so down to 40 then having to accelerate up the hill.

That's an S&C enhancement, not a signalling one, so unless that gets funded it isn't in the remit

 

[alf]

That's an S&C enhancement, not a signalling one, so unless that gets funded it isn't in the remit

That’s the trouble with the railway.

A good example of the “it isn’t done that way” approach with the result it never gets done.
Here in Gloucester it means the railway will lumbered with a Brunel era speed limit in the 21st century.

A normal business would coordinate work & get everything that needs done in one go.

 

[The Planner]

That’s the trouble with the railway.

A good example of the “it isn’t done that way” approach with the result it never gets done.
Here in Gloucester it means the railway will lumbered with a Brunel era speed limit in the 21st century.

A normal business would coordinate work & get everything that needs done in one go.

Which is what will happen, I was being sarcastic.

 

[edwin_m]

Traditionally all sorts of re-modellings were wrapped up with re-signalling because the signalling changes were essentially free. Also signalling interlockings especially of 1960s-1980s vintage were pretty difficult to modify, especially with all the safety standards around them. That's somewhat less true now, there still has to be lots of costly checking etc when changing data-based signalling, but it's easier than re-wiring a load of relays. So there's now more scope to change the layout between re-signallings, as shown by Reading and Bristol where the existing layout was re-signalled pretty much "as is", and modified later.

 

[ABB125]

Has any more information about this project been made public since the initial announcement last year?

 

[Brissle Girl]

That's an S&C enhancement, not a signalling one, so unless that gets funded it isn't in the remit

Unless there is an obvious physical impediment that makes it clearly impossible within the existing railway boundary it’s a no-brainer though. Apart from the time saving, I suspect the carbon saving of not having to accelerate up the hill only to then brake for Stonehouse is not immaterial. And of course it would speed up diverted South Wales traffic too.

 

[The Planner]

Unless there is an obvious physical impediment that makes it clearly impossible within the existing railway boundary it’s a no-brainer though. Apart from the time saving, I suspect the carbon saving of not having to accelerate up the hill only to then brake for Stonehouse is not immaterial. And of course it would speed up diverted South Wales traffic too.

My previous replies stand though, if the scheme is a renewal then unless someone else stumps up the cash or it has a useable benefit then it doesnt happen. We can all come up with no brainers that won't see the light of day.

 

[MarkyT]

My previous replies stand though, if the scheme is a renewal then unless someone else stumps up the cash or it has a useable benefit then it doesnt happen. We can all come up with no brainers that won't see the light of day.

When I was planning jobs on the Southern, engineers from all disciplines would attempt to package up as much of their renewals as possible into a big resignalling, bringing their budgets into the equation too. If you can align a junction S&C renewal job with the resignalling then catering for faster turnouts etc can be very cost-effective as the enhancement only needs to pay for the difference in basic cost between the original spec and the higher speed ones. Often an overall reduction in S&C units can be made in a redesign to a fully modern layout. Renewing the signalling at the same time makes remodelling far easier.

 

[The Planner]

When I was planning jobs on the Southern, engineers from all disciplines would attempt to package up as much of their renewals as possible into a big resignalling, bringing their budgets into the equation too. If you can align a junction S&C renewal job with the resignalling then catering for faster turnouts etc can be very cost-effective as the enhancement only needs to pay for the difference in basic cost between the original spec and the higher speed ones. Often an overall reduction in S&C units can be made in a redesign to a fully modern layout. Renewing the signalling at the same time makes remodelling far easier.

That is more integrating the work in the access though. My point is that if the track asset manager is only funded for a renewal, where is the extra cash coming from?

 

[alf]

That is more integrating the work in the access though. My point is that if the track asset manager is only funded for a renewal, where is the extra cash coming from?

Joined1 Mar 2021Messages206LocationBournemouth

That's an S&C enhancement, not a signalling one, so unless that gets funded it isn't in the remit

A good example of the “it isn’t done that way” approach with the result it never gets done.
Here in Gloucester it means the railway will lumbered with a Brunel era speed limit in the 21st century.

A normal business would coordinate work & get everything that needs done in one go

 

[MarkyT]

That is more integrating the work in the access though. My point is that if the track asset manager is only funded for a renewal, where is the extra cash coming from?

Depends on the layout. Sometimes projects can make significant savings in the number of new track and signalling units* provided compared to existing, removing facilities no longer used to full extent, while still improving flexibility for modern traffic patterns. A good example of this is Kirkham and Wesham on the Blackpool line where the final layout for electrification has about one-third the previous number of turnouts, yet is very much more useful than what existed before. Some of the savings from reducing the number of units might be reinvested by improving the turnout speed of others that are renewed. With layouts that were already heavily simplified in the 70s or 80s however, there's often not the same fat to cut and there are usually route management aspirations to provide extra facilities where they cut too far in the past, or at least make passive provision for them.

* no. of turnouts, crossings, signals etc.

 

[The Planner]

Joined1 Mar 2021Messages206LocationBournemouth


A good example of the “it isn’t done that way” approach with the result it never gets done.
Here in Gloucester it means the railway will lumbered with a Brunel era speed limit in the 21st century.

A normal business would coordinate work & get everything that needs done in one go

Irrepsective if one part of that business cannot afford it? If the settlement given to NR doesnt stretch to it, it doesnt get done.

Depends on the layout. Sometimes projects can make significant savings in the number of new track and signalling units* provided compared to existing, removing facilities no longer used to full extent, while still improving flexibility for modern traffic patterns. A good example of this is Kirkham and Wesham on the Blackpool line where the final layout for electrification has about one-third the previous number of turnouts, yet is very much more useful than what existed before. Some of the savings from reducing the number of units might be reinvested by improving the turnout speed of others that are renewed. With layouts that were already heavily simplified in the 70s or 80s however, there's often not the same fat to cut and there are usually route management aspirations to provide extra facilities where they cut too far in the past, or at least make passive provision for them.

* no. of turnouts, crossings, signals etc.

Willing to bet that was funded by the overall enhancement pot, unless Kirkham was due to be renewed.

 

[Western Sunset]

Are both the middle roads through Glos station still in use? One looks very overgrown, with an iffy-looking track.

 

[MarkyT]

Willing to bet that was funded by the overall enhancement pot, unless Kirkham was due to be renewed.

It was a mechanical signalbox, so the location would have appeared in a renewal programme at some point. Maybe they brought it forward a little to align with electrification and track renewals. The financial wizards had some mechanism for accessing at least a proportion of the renewals budget even for a non-fully depreciated asset replaced early.

 

[ABB125]

Are both the middle roads through Glos station still in use? One looks very overgrown, with an iffy-looking track.

It would be fair to say that one of them is used more than the other (though I can't remember which)