• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Go Cornwall Bus

Columbo

New Member
Joined
5 Sep 2021
Messages
4
Location
Cornwall
I wonder if it could potentially affect the commercial viability of the 91 if people move to the new faster option.
Possibly but only really for those travelling centre to centre or from Quintrell Downs. The 93 provides a much quicker service through Treloggan than the 85/U1/U1A. On the flipside, the 91 will become the main viable daytime link between Queens, St Col Road, Fraddon & Truro.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,029
Constant and quite significant changes in network will not do anything to encourage long term ridership as passengers won't expect their bus to last more than six months and so won't be able to rely on it. The low fares pilot success will surely be massively undermined. The other things is the way the changes are done is that some buses go hourly to nothing whilst others go the other way so even an hourly bus service isn't guaranteed to last more than six months.
I'd support what you say if I felt it was happening here, but I don't. This bus company has only been operational for just over two years and its introduction unfortunately coincided with the pandemic, so it got off to a poor start through nobody's fault. Given the conditions pertaining, and the fact that buses ran around almost empty because of lockdown, to me it was praiseworthy that most journeys ran as staff had been found to operate them despite the considerable difficulties in recruiting staff. The process of choosing routes to run did seem somewhat opaque, though some thought had obviously gone into it, presumably mostly at Cornwall Council officer level. It was inevitable that at some stage within a year or two of GCB taking to the road some (possibly many) changes would need to be made on the basis of operational experience, including actual passenger numbers. Minor tweaks would, of course, happen every so often in the meantime as with any bus company.

Now a medium to big change, certainly a significant one, is about to take place, with forewarning of change to a further handful of routes in a few months time if passenger loadings don't improve. Looking at the changes overall, and bearing in mind my personal knowledge of East Cornwall routes is near zero, it seems to me that a lot of thought has gone into this, doubtless with much data extraction. It's my guess that both council and bus operator have played significant parts in this exercise with a person in charge who knows what they're doing and what they want to achieve. Now, if this recasting of the network were to change dramatically again within the next year or two, then I would agree with you that ridership would be discouraged, if not undermined. The instances of services going from hourly to nothing, or vice versa, is only true in a tiny number of cases, and mostly involving hamlets and stretches of road rather than whole routes. Some of the present routes raised eyebrows when they were introduced, seeming like ''nice ideas'' in an ideal world but unlikely to attract enough custom, and I notice a proportion of them do now seem either for the chop or a reworking. I think we should let these changes bed in (not all will work well, and may have to be altered again, perhaps at short notice) and maybe pass judgment at the end of the year?
 

nanstallon

Member
Joined
18 Dec 2015
Messages
736
A lot of new routes have been introduced in recent years, and it is not surprising that some have turned out to have fallen onstony ground. There is a bit of a vicious/ virtuous circle in that a decent service will in time generate new traffic, while a service that runs too infrequently will not attract custom.

In that regard, I am sad to see the 76 no longer connecting Bodmin and Launceston direct via Bolventor; it ought to have strong tourist appeal. A frequent Newquay Airport to Newquay town, preferably Truro, service might be worth a try; especially as railway strikes are leading to more use of the Newquay to London air service.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,554
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I think if they're serious about tourist appeal they need to connect things better to the railway. Car-free tourists in Cornwall (and there are quite a lot of them due to it being a popular destination for young people from London) will arrive by train, and the network isn't quite good enough at connecting the railway to places people want to go. I'm conscious it also has to provide for locals, though, which can be a compromise.

An example of an improvement there is extending the 95 to Newquay. St Columb Major is irritatingly just short of a railway station (St Columb Road).

The other application for tourists I suppose is linear walks, but other than that if you arrive by car you'll get around by car, the only way to really address that would be a tourist tax giving totally free travel.
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,029
A frequent Newquay Airport to Newquay town, preferably Truro, service might be worth a try; especially as railway strikes are leading to more use of the Newquay to London air service.
That was all part of the original plan, wasn't it, before the Flybe collapse immediately preceding the pandemic?
 

Andyh82

Established Member
Joined
19 May 2014
Messages
3,490
Possibly but only really for those travelling centre to centre or from Quintrell Downs. The 93 provides a much quicker service through Treloggan than the 85/U1/U1A. On the flipside, the 91 will become the main viable daytime link between Queens, St Col Road, Fraddon & Truro.
A subsidised service running direct and a commercial service running via villages does sound to me like the wrong way round.

There is certainly no reason to use public money to pay for the rerouted 93 as it doesn’t serve a unique purpose
 

Goldfish62

Established Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
9,937
I'd support what you say if I felt it was happening here, but I don't. This bus company has only been operational for just over two years and its introduction unfortunately coincided with the pandemic, so it got off to a poor start through nobody's fault. Given the conditions pertaining, and the fact that buses ran around almost empty because of lockdown, to me it was praiseworthy that most journeys ran as staff had been found to operate them despite the considerable difficulties in recruiting staff. The process of choosing routes to run did seem somewhat opaque, though some thought had obviously gone into it, presumably mostly at Cornwall Council officer level. It was inevitable that at some stage within a year or two of GCB taking to the road some (possibly many) changes would need to be made on the basis of operational experience, including actual passenger numbers. Minor tweaks would, of course, happen every so often in the meantime as with any bus company.

Now a medium to big change, certainly a significant one, is about to take place, with forewarning of change to a further handful of routes in a few months time if passenger loadings don't improve. Looking at the changes overall, and bearing in mind my personal knowledge of East Cornwall routes is near zero, it seems to me that a lot of thought has gone into this, doubtless with much data extraction. It's my guess that both council and bus operator have played significant parts in this exercise with a person in charge who knows what they're doing and what they want to achieve. Now, if this recasting of the network were to change dramatically again within the next year or two, then I would agree with you that ridership would be discouraged, if not undermined. The instances of services going from hourly to nothing, or vice versa, is only true in a tiny number of cases, and mostly involving hamlets and stretches of road rather than whole routes. Some of the present routes raised eyebrows when they were introduced, seeming like ''nice ideas'' in an ideal world but unlikely to attract enough custom, and I notice a proportion of them do now seem either for the chop or a reworking. I think we should let these changes bed in (not all will work well, and may have to be altered again, perhaps at short notice) and maybe pass judgment at the end of the year?
Yes spot-on.

Also to be taken into account is that in return for BRG2 (Bus Recovery Grant 2) the DfT has required a commitment from local authorities and operators to adjust service levels to that of a "sustainable post-Covid network",in other words cut services.

Cornwall Council could have simply taken the easy way out and stopped funding all evening and Sunday services as elsewhere, but instead it looks like they and GCB have made efforts to sustain what they can of an attractive all-day, seven days a week service.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,554
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
A subsidised service running direct and a commercial service running via villages does sound to me like the wrong way round.

There is certainly no reason to use public money to pay for the rerouted 93 as it doesn’t serve a unique purpose

Is it subsidised? Presumably Go Cornwall Bus can run commercial routes (or part-routes) if they want, they're just Plymouth Citybus in disguise. (The legal lettering is actually for Citybus).
 

Goldfish62

Established Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
9,937
Is it subsidised? Presumably Go Cornwall Bus can run commercial routes (or part-routes) if they want, they're just Plymouth Citybus in disguise. (The legal lettering is actually for Citybus).
Partly subsided, which could mean anything from one journey to most of the service!
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,554
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I beleive it’s the evening service that’s subsidised. Now numbered 93E

Could it actually be that Go have agreed to run the daytime service (or that part of it) without subsidy provided they can run it the quickest way to reduce the number of vehicles required? Seems feasible to me, I've seen that sort of thing before.
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,029
Could it actually be that Go have agreed to run the daytime service (or that part of it) without subsidy provided they can run it the quickest way to reduce the number of vehicles required? Seems feasible to me, I've seen that sort of thing before.
Doesn't sound dissimilar to me from when GCB ran route 2 from Penzance to Praa Sands for a while on a commercial basis, avoiding Goldsithney and thus providing a quicker journey from e.g. Rosudgeon to Penzance than the First U4 route.
 

northernbelle

Member
Joined
10 Oct 2018
Messages
680
People who have lost their rural bus service and have no railway say "diddums". Duplicating a rail service is a waste of subsidy.
Indeed. To be fair the operation of the 75A seems to have been at the expense of a proper service between Torpoint and Plymouth via the ferry which currently has an hourly service, having been used to a bus every 15 mins for a long time.

Given the good train service and low numbers carried on the 75A, this seems sensible. Why would Cornwall Council provide two lots of subsidy for the same line of route?
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,029
Indeed. To be fair the operation of the 75A seems to have been at the expense of a proper service between Torpoint and Plymouth via the ferry which currently has an hourly service, having been used to a bus every 15 mins for a long time.

Given the good train service and low numbers carried on the 75A, this seems sensible. Why would Cornwall Council provide two lots of subsidy for the same line of route?
Age-old problem. If a bus between Torpoint and Plymouth via the ferry (the only practical way) needs subsidising, who by? Cornwall Council, Plymouth City Council or both? To my mind Cornwall residents get much larger benefits than those of Plymouth residents, though some Plymouth businesses might be said to gain too. With a lack of joined-up thinking, everyone suffers.
 

northernbelle

Member
Joined
10 Oct 2018
Messages
680
Age-old problem. If a bus between Torpoint and Plymouth via the ferry (the only practical way) needs subsidising, who by? Cornwall Council, Plymouth City Council or both? To my mind Cornwall residents get much larger benefits than those of Plymouth residents, though some Plymouth businesses might be said to gain too. With a lack of joined-up thinking, everyone suffers.
It used to be subsided by both I think.
 

richw

Veteran Member
Joined
10 Jun 2010
Messages
11,213
Location
Liskeard
Age-old problem. If a bus between Torpoint and Plymouth via the ferry (the only practical way) needs subsidising, who by? Cornwall Council, Plymouth City Council or both? To my mind Cornwall residents get much larger benefits than those of Plymouth residents, though some Plymouth businesses might be said to gain too. With a lack of joined-up thinking, everyone suffers.
Cornwall council as far as the border. Link it up with a Plymouth service either commercial or subsidy to make a through service?
 

DaveHarries

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2011
Messages
2,297
Location
England
Plymouth Citybus state on their website that, following a retendering exercise, the following four routes will pass from Oakleys Coaches to PCB commencing Monday 15th August:
- 55 (Tavistock, Yelverton & Milton Coombe)
- 56 (Tavistock, Yelverton & Dousland)
- 59 (George Jcn P&R - Plymouth City Centre, via. Cornwood)
- 98 (Tavistock, Yelverton & Postbridge)

The timetables are all on Traveline with the 55, 56 & 98 seeing no changes to theirs. The 59 is, however, extended from George Jcn & P&R to Derriford Hospital and therefore does have a revised timetable. PCB have also acquired some minibuses for the routes and a photo of one of them, which looks like BL16 GAO, is on the website.

Dave
 

Express380

Member
Joined
7 Mar 2020
Messages
183
Location
.
Hopefully someone here could help me. I use, or used to use up until August time, the current 47 route from Truro bus station towards St Day at 07:40, which I need to use in September. However, this service is being withdrawn on weekdays in the new 40 route timetable (the first bus being at 8:45) with the Exception of school holidays (the only time when I don't need it :rolleyes:). Is there anyone outside of the bus company I can contact as I have tried to contact them without any success? I heard that there is somebody in the council who will consider bringing back routes and services but I'm not sure who. If not is there any solution outside of a car journey that could be suggested to me?

Many thanks for any help.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

richw

Veteran Member
Joined
10 Jun 2010
Messages
11,213
Location
Liskeard
Hopefully someone here could help me I use or used to use up until August time the current 47 route from Truro bus station towards St Day at 07:40 which I need to use in September however this service is being withdrawn on weekdays in the new 40 route timetable (the first bus being at 8:45) with the Exception of school holidays (the only time when I don't need it :rolleyes:) is there anyone outside of the bus company I can contact as I have tried to contact them without any success I heard that there is somebody in the council who will consider bringing back routes and services but I'm not sure who. If not is there any solution outside of a car journey that could be suggested to me.

Many thanks for any help.
The council’s transport department, your MP, your local councillor. The council have withdrawn funding for that early service, based on usage.
 

Kieanh4

Member
Joined
14 Mar 2020
Messages
40
Location
Roche
Just got my hands on the new timetable book, much more of an improvement being in A4 and being of the whole network
 

Attachments

  • 20220903_115629.jpg
    20220903_115629.jpg
    3.4 MB · Views: 28

busdave

Member
Joined
27 Jan 2020
Messages
15
Location
west cornwall
Just got my hands on the new timetable book, much more of an improvement being in A4 and being of the whole network
Not quite all the services: the Tin Coaster/18 (Pendeen-St Just-Penzance) service isn't in there; either they forgot to put it in (in which case maybe a separate timetable leaflet will be issued) or they've scrapped the route!
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,029
Not quite all the services: the Tin Coaster/18 (Pendeen-St Just-Penzance) service isn't in there; either they forgot to put it in (in which case maybe a separate timetable leaflet will be issued) or they've scrapped the route!
If the latter, the silence will soon be shattered!

P.S. The timetable is showing on First's website. I think the 'coaster' bit is unjustified now, a return to no. 18 would be sensible, unless of course it were to be extended at the northern end next Summer, (but off topic!)
 

richard13

Member
Joined
20 Jan 2019
Messages
121
Not quite all the services: the Tin Coaster/18 (Pendeen-St Just-Penzance) service isn't in there; either they forgot to put it in (in which case maybe a separate timetable leaflet will be issued) or they've scrapped the route!
The timetable comes right near the end under T - Tin Coaster with 18s added
 

Andyh82

Established Member
Joined
19 May 2014
Messages
3,490
It wasn’t in the first version of the PDF either, a full page picture of Truro occupied that page
 

Top