Go North East

[Kuyoyo]

Update
The Brand New E400s and Streetdecks have started to arrive.
So far at Consett there’s 8 BN ADL E400 MMC and 2 Wright Streetdecks, Out of an order for 15 ADL E400s and 22 Streetdecks. All are for the X-Lines services
BN ADL E400s will go on the Consett services X30/31/70/71 while some will go on the Hexham services X84/85
The Wright Streetdecks will go on the Consett X45/46/47(6) and Washington X1(15). The 6cl will most likely go to Riverside although has been said to be going on different services as a trial.
This Streetdeck is the ‘spare’ Charcoal X Lines livery could the 6cl vehicle. (Yet to be confirmed)

6376 Go North East Wright Streetdeck

Arrived into Go North East under preparation for Hownsgill depot to act as a spare vehicle for all XLines routes in case one is unavailable seen here in Saltmeadows under preparation © All rights reserved. Images are copyrighted to myself. Photographs lifted from my photostream and being...

www.flickr.com

Credit Stealth 5307,5332

The X45/46/47 will also take the Streetdecks from the X21 which are getting the Gemini 3s from X9/10 which are being replaced by Ex Oxford Elites which are due in September. The X21 branded Streetdecks are (6304-6307,6331-6333)
6331&6332 have already been sent to Consett from Chester Le Street with Ex Demos 6334&6335 arriving for new life at CLE.
6331 on X21

Go North East 6331 / NK67 GNZ

- Fleet: 6331 - Reg: NK67 GNZ - Operator: Go North East - Route: X21 - Depot: Chester-le-Street - Livery: X-lines - X21 - Type: Wright Streetdeck - Bodywork: Wright Streetdeck Micro Hybrid 3 - Livery New In: The Angel - New to/ Year: Go North East / 2017 - Location: West Street, Gateshead

www.flickr.com

Credit Kieron Mathews
6331 on X45

Go North East 6331 / NK67 GNZ

- Fleet: 6331 - Reg: NK67 GNZ - Operator: Go North East - Route: X46 - Depot: Consett - Livery: X-lines - X45/X46/X47 - Type: Wright Streetdeck - Bodywork: Wright Streetdeck Micro Hybrid 3 - Livery New In: The Angel - New to/ Year: Go North East / 2017 - Location: Askew Road West, Teams

www.flickr.com

Credit Kieron Mathews
Note 6331 previously had been on the Angel 21 but along with 6332&6333 was repainted into X-Lines. These were technically the Spares the 21 so when X21 became the x lines X21 these were repaint for the X21 with 6301-6303 (16 Regs) being the spare vehicles for both the 21&X21 (This was a while ago and not recent).

The Gemini 3s were sent to Blackburn to be repainted due to lack of space at GNE Saltmeadows workshop.
The X9/10 is currently being served by Gemini 2s from other reduced services until drivers are trained on Levante coaches which will operate the services until the Elite coaches arrive from down South.
The Gemini 3s repaint (6314)

6314 Go North East Volvo Wright Gemini 3

Returned from Blackburn Bus & Coach World following repaint and also Volvo getting modified for its new route it will be allocated namely XLines X21 soon to gain the XLines X21 branding where it will run from Newcastle to West Auckland via Durham and Bishop Auckland seen here in Saltmeadows...

www.flickr.com

Credit Stealth 5307,5332
6314 before repaint

Go North East: 6314 NK67EBJ Volvo B5TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini 3

Go North East's Volvo B5TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini 3 6314 NK67EBJ is pictured on Newgate Street, Newcastle Upon Tyne, operating a Service X9 to Middlesbrough, on October 20th 2017.

www.flickr.com

Credit emdjt42

The 8 MMC 400s delivered are (6341,6342
,6345,6346,6347,6349,6350,6551) with the 2 Streetdecks numbered 6356&6359

6350 in service today

Go North East ADL Enviro 400 mmc 6350 | YX20 OKK seen on Newgate Street working an X30 to Stanley.

Explore A&LSP8's 12159 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

6359 in service today

https://www.flickr.com/photos/27974644@N07/50275037637/

Credit A&LSP8

A Washington Streetdecks has just been photographed at Saltmeadows today

https://www.flickr.com/photos/90395461@N08/50275056541/

Credit NE14NE1

Consett is seeing its services upgraded due to regeneration in the area with its local Venture services getting a repaint as seen in another post. (Solos 641/643/644&645 have re
The B9TLs from Consett services are due to go on the 26/27 temporally until Washington’s Streetdecks arrive which will go on the 26/27 full time. The B9TLs at Consett which are Ex London and Dealer stock are due to go on other services with the 93/94 mentioned. It was planned pre COVID that 6118-6121 (Ex Dealer stock) Gemini 2s to go to East Yorkshire although not sure that’s the case.

The Yuthong Electrics for the 53/54 (9) are due in the Month from China before going to Pelican and arriving in October/November.

probably missed some things out but that’s some of the recent up North.

The Streetdecks are already a year or so late and reduced by 9 (originally, apart from a pair for Chester-le-Street depot for the X21 and the 6cl example, all for Consett for the X31/X45/X46/X47/X70/X71) so plans changed rapidly.
Indeed, they've changed again since the first examples entered service - the PVR of the X1 reduced from 14 to 12 at the start of September, helped by the permeant withdrawn of the 921 between Newcastle and Rainton Bridge nPower Office. As a result, 2 Streetdecks from the intended 15 for Washington are now instead going to Consett for the X45/X46/X47 - the first one of which has entered service today (6362). For now, Washington's spare Streetdeck 6376 is operating on-loan to Consett depot to cover while the former X21 Streetdecks (6304-7) are partly repainted into 'X-Lines' Yellow for the X5/X15 between Durham, Consett and Shotley Bridge.
Go North East 6376 (NK70 BYU) by Tony Kuy, on Flickr

 

[cnjb8]

The Streetdecks are already a year or so late and reduced by 9 (originally, apart from a pair for Chester-le-Street depot for the X21 and the 6cl example, all for Consett for the X31/X45/X46/X47/X70/X71) so plans changed rapidly.
Indeed, they've changed again since the first examples entered service - the PVR of the X1 reduced from 14 to 12 at the start of September, helped by the permeant withdrawn of the 921 between Newcastle and Rainton Bridge nPower Office. As a result, 2 Streetdecks from the intended 15 for Washington are now instead going to Consett for the X45/X46/X47 - the first one of which has entered service today (6362). For now, Washington's spare Streetdeck 6376 is operating on-loan to Consett depot to cover while the former X21 Streetdecks (6304-7) are partly repainted into 'X-Lines' Yellow for the X5/X15 between Durham, Consett and Shotley Bridge.
Go North East 6376 (NK70 BYU) by Tony Kuy, on Flickr

You make it sound like a much bigger deal then it is. Oxford Bus Company and Thames Travel got those 9 StreetDecks and GNE has been able to and will be able to complete it's fleet replacement plan thanks to the Elite Interdecks coming soon.

 

[duncombec]

Bit of positivity about a GNE bus driver here: https://twitter.com/GNairambulance/status/1306639155812872197

Recognise this bus company in Dunston? Our aircraft couldn't land exactly where our patient was, leaving our crew running to get to the scene. A bus driver spotted our crew and stopped to ask if they needed a ride. Please help us track down this legend and say thank you!

 

[cnjb8]

The 6-cylinder StreetDeck is here!

Twitter

 

[156443]

Go North East Voltra 8805 / ND70 AEW by kieron mathews, on Flickr

Go North East launched their new Voltra branded electric buses into service on Friday for services 53/54

 

[Andyh82]

I have to say the idea to run the #GNESantaBus over last few days has been great positive PR for the company

For those who don't know, GNE have decorated one of their open top buses with lights and tinsel, and have been driving it around the region, with Santa waving from the top deck.

Look on twitter for photos and videos of the excitement it has provided, all socially distanced of course.

 

[MotCO]

I have to say the idea to run the #GNESantaBus over last few days has been great positive PR for the company

For those who don't know, GNE have decorated one of their open top buses with lights and tinsel, and have been driving it around the region, with Santa waving from the top deck.

Look on twitter for photos and videos of the excitement it has provided, all socially distanced of course.

My grandchildren saw it today and waved to Santa! They were not the only ones either.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Bit of news and the final disappearance of the former Northern General (GoNE's predecessor) bus station at Worswick Street in Newcastle. Built in 1929, it lasted until 1996 and has been derelict ever since though used for a bit of car parking.

Many times I waited there for an evening 723 to Darlington. Some enthusiasts bemoaned it's going but I remember it as a grim place. More info and photos in this article from the local rag https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/history/gallery/last-look-newcastles-worswick-street-19645177

 

[overthewater]

Here are some pics of the works happening: https://flic.kr/p/2ksENyK There is a good number taken

 

[Eyersey468]

As far as I know 6118-21 are still coming to East Yorkshire although it's not clear exactly when.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Here are some pics of the works happening: https://flic.kr/p/2ksENyK There is a good number taken

Much the same as the article (understandably) though they did get a better shot of the offices and the Noda Taxis sign.

In a way, I'm not sad to see it go. It wasn't a nice place to catch a bus - feral pigeons and dangerous. However, it's the last of the old bus stations (of which Newcastle had 5, ues 5, in the city centre) from my childhood so a little sad on that score.

 

[AndrewP]

Here are some pics of the works happening: https://flic.kr/p/2ksENyK There is a good number taken

Surprised they needed heavy plant - it looked like all it needed was a good push

 

[507021]

Does anyone have a list of which Citaros have transferred to Go North West, please?

 

[APT618S]

Does anyone have a list of which Citaros have transferred to Go North West, please?

From the GNE Website (27/12/20):

Welcome to our Enthusiast Area

We live and breathe buses so we like to encourage anyone with an interest in our buses and services.

www.gonortheast.co.uk

5310, 5311, 5312, 5314, 5315, 5316, 5317, 5318 (NK08 MXY/MXZ/MYA/MYC/MYD/MYF/MYG/MZV) and 5320 (NK58 DVW) have all been transferred to Go North West. They are being repainted and refurbished at Thorntons, Ashington, prior to arrival at Go North West.

 

[NewcastleOne]

Does anyone have a list of which Citaros have transferred to Go North West, please?

Numbers of vehicles (at GNE) that will transfer or have done so already are 5298-5303,5305-5318,5320-5322

From the GNE Website (27/12/20):

Welcome to our Enthusiast Area

We live and breathe buses so we like to encourage anyone with an interest in our buses and services.

www.gonortheast.co.uk

5310, 5311, 5312, 5314, 5315, 5316, 5317, 5318 (NK08 MXY/MXZ/MYA/MYC/MYD/MYF/MYG/MZV) and 5320 (NK58 DVW) have all been transferred to Go North West. They are being repainted and refurbished at Thorntons, Ashington, prior to arrival at Go North West.

Some have transferred ahead of repaint and refurbishment for engineering and driver training.

 

[507021]

From the GNE Website (27/12/20):

Welcome to our Enthusiast Area

We live and breathe buses so we like to encourage anyone with an interest in our buses and services.

www.gonortheast.co.uk

5310, 5311, 5312, 5314, 5315, 5316, 5317, 5318 (NK08 MXY/MXZ/MYA/MYC/MYD/MYF/MYG/MZV) and 5320 (NK58 DVW) have all been transferred to Go North West. They are being repainted and refurbished at Thorntons, Ashington, prior to arrival at Go North West.

Numbers of vehicles (at GNE) that will transfer or have done so already are 5298-5303,5305-5318,5320-5322


Some have transferred ahead of repaint and refurbishment for engineering and driver training.

Thanks, both.

 

[jonesy3001]

I take it 5304 and 5319 are the ones not transferring to GNW?

 

[507021]

I take it 5304 and 5319 are the ones not transferring to GNW?

5304 is staying with Go North East, 5319 was withdrawn a while ago.

 

[jonesy3001]

5304 is staying with Go North East, 5319 was withdrawn a while ago.

Seen pics on Flickr of the citaros parked up in queens rd depot, 5320 is the latest one.
Credit to buses 2012.

Go North East 5320 (NK58DVW)

Mercedes-Benz Citaro Seen at Go North West's Queens Road depot.

flic.kr

 

[MackTen]

Do you think that the loss of brands such as Whey Aye 5 o and Blaydon Racer was a bad thing?

Definitely a bad thing.

I have despaired at how GNE have thrown away what was a very bold move to adopt universal branding. If ever there was an operation it suited, it was theirs. It certainly seemed to have worked too.

Still, better that they get rid of it, than continue to make a mess of it, changing brands too often, or for the wrong reasons, or not choosing good names (although since numeric styles like "Route 19" and "The Ten" were relative rarities, even they did kind of stick in your mind) and worst of all, using the wrong buses on the wrong routes (long before covid).

I have absolutely no idea what they think they're achieving with X-Lines. Their whole selling point was their young fleet, good connections, frequent inter urban routes and general high specced buses, compared to the competitors.

Now they're implying this is a premium thing? Available only on certain routes, and somehow the other branded routes possibly don't signify these things? Daft.

It all looks very un-GNE, very playing it safe, very retrograde. After all, Stagecoach had GoldLine and Arriva have had Maxx/Sapphire for years now, and it doesn't seem to have done them any good.

If not universal branding, then a nice modern standard livery would have done. A bus whose primary colour is red (esp. the front) and whose fleetname ties it somehow to the north, is definitely something that can't be confused with the rest of the eneric corporate mush that plies its trade up here.

Arguably the time has passed where regional branding makes sense, given how many of their routes now range far into the nominal areas of other depots. Their way forward, if not literally branding buses, should have been massively pushing things like real time tracking and mapping apps. Because without those, even if you live here, it's tough to know your 58A from your 10, or your X3 from your X85.

As for Voltra. Yes, it's electric. So what? In six months time, I will have totally forgotten those are the buses that travel the little used but quite useful Saltwell Park route. As I had known ever since they branded it. And what next, Voltra 2?

 

[Bristol LHS]

I have despaired at how GNE have thrown away what was a very bold move to adopt universal branding. If ever there was an operation it suited, it was theirs. It certainly seemed to have worked too.

I kinda agree, I kinda don’t. I think it has been downhill at GNE since Peter Huntley, but I do think Gilbert is turning things round.

Huntley‘s insight was that they aren’t really a network operator. Aside from Gateshead, they’ve got a thin layer of inter urban services that overlay on other operators networks, and some urban routes that fill gaps. So it makes sense to brand and market the individual services rather than the network as a whole.

Under Huntley, everything was branded, but as time has gone on, some of those brands have declined in quality and more services have become corporate branded, or part of a brand that covers multiple services in a not very effective way. We’ve also seen frequencies reduced (going from 10 to 15 mins in some hero routes like the 56) and some daft links made for operational rather than customer focused reasons (Murton to Jarrow, anyone?). It’s much less coherent as a proposition.

Gilbert is improving the quality of the branding and presentation. He obviously takes the view that x lines can be marketed as a network of express services with a common set of features (comfort/speed). I’m less convinced, but it is at least a commercial strategy after a period when they’d focused more on operations (new depots etc). My criticism would be that there seem to be a lot of other routes going into corporate colours, and some good brands being sacrificed for operational efficiency.

As for Voltra, it makes no more sense than some of the old brands (eg fab 56) - my view is basically that it doesn’t matter what you call the product as long as the proposition is clear. I’d imagine there’s not much of a discretionary market for the saltwell circulars - it’s about persuading people who live along the route to take another look at the bus over the car or taxis, so a brand that says this is a clean, green and modern way to travel makes some sense.

 

[Andyh82]

My main criticism is that the company seems to be turning into Transdev Blazefield. All the new brands could be lifted from GNE straight into Transdev and look like one of theirs. The previous brands were more unique and seem to be being dropped for something more generic. X Lines rather than Red Kite being a key one.

Also as you say some brands are being dropped for operational reasons, The Blaydon Racers is the main one. It literally races straight down Scotswood Road to Blaydon, but now has corporate vehicles.

 

[mic]

From the GNE Website (27/12/20):

Welcome to our Enthusiast Area

We live and breathe buses so we like to encourage anyone with an interest in our buses and services.

www.gonortheast.co.uk

5310, 5311, 5312, 5314, 5315, 5316, 5317, 5318 (NK08 MXY/MXZ/MYA/MYC/MYD/MYF/MYG/MZV) and 5320 (NK58 DVW) have all been transferred to Go North West. They are being repainted and refurbished at Thorntons, Ashington, prior to arrival at Go North West.

5318 as GNW 6220 was in the service on the 26th 5310 repainted by GNW as 6212

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You'll never get agreement on this.... from those who believe that all routes should be branded to those who are foresquare against it, and that a single uniform approach has to be best.

In Peter Huntley's day, everything got branded. However, whilst some of the brands were good and have endured, some were very weak like Route 19 or North Tyne Links or indeed Saltwell Park.

Therefore, when Kevin Carr came in, as a dyed in the wool Northern man, he stripped back the amount of branding so some routes were back to overall red etc. He also focused on the practical side of things like amalgamating Winlaton and Gateshead into the new Riverside depot and most of the planning behind vacating Stanley. There were some brands which I personally thought were good that got binned (the Lime, in favour of some bland Coast and Country ID, or the Lambton Worm) but others like Solar or Street Shuttle were very generic.

What Gilbert is doing is perhaps going back closer to Huntley in the branding in some respects; he's very much a marketing man and yes, there are strong parallels with Alex Hornby (especially with the relationship with Best Impressions). That said, I think the rebrand of the Fab 56 to Cityrider....well, that's as bland as could be. The livery could've done with a refresh but Cityrider.... must've taken about 12 seconds to come up with one.

As for X Lines, this is really a return in many respects to the former Expresslink concept of the late 80s/early 90s. It's about speed and quality, which is what Expresslink was; it's largely for those inter-urban corridors and an attempt to keep existing passengers and attract car users based on time and comfort, especially where there isn't a parallel rail line. A cynic might also point that they are also looking to achieve competitive advantage over the rather jaded Arriva offerings in some cases? In fact, a number of those routes are former Expresslink routes (Newcastle to Middlesbrough, Newcastle to Washington, Newcastle to Derwentside), others are new whilst some like the Hartlepool route have finally gone.

I'd take issue with notion that Stagecoach Gold and Arriva Sapphire haven't done them much good as an argument. Arriva's problems are much more fundamental, and Sapphire did certainly deliver benefits (e.g. Chester to Wrexham) but the whole thing has been overtaken by the general malaise of the protracted DB disposal. Stagecoach Gold was more successful and has delivered real patronage improvements. It isn't a panacea and some routes were strange choices for that sort of concept. Now whether you consider that every route should have, as a minimum, the standards that a Gold route has (better seating, USBs, quality standards, etc).....well, again, that's one of those common arguments much the same as routes as brands vs. one pervading network image.

 

[Andyh82]

I know not everyone liked "Fab 56" with the slightly daft name, and the flowers on the livery, but it stands out much more than "Cityrider"

"Washington Street Shuttle" had an American style to play on the "Washington" name

 

[MackTen]

You'll never get agreement on this.... from those who believe that all routes should be branded to those who are foresquare against it, and that a single uniform approach has to be best.

In Peter Huntley's day, everything got branded. However, whilst some of the brands were good and have endured, some were very weak like Route 19 or North Tyne Links or indeed Saltwell Park.

Therefore, when Kevin Carr came in, as a dyed in the wool Northern man, he stripped back the amount of branding so some routes were back to overall red etc. He also focused on the practical side of things like amalgamating Winlaton and Gateshead into the new Riverside depot and most of the planning behind vacating Stanley. There were some brands which I personally thought were good that got binned (the Lime, in favour of some bland Coast and Country ID, or the Lambton Worm) but others like Solar or Street Shuttle were very generic.

What Gilbert is doing is perhaps going back closer to Huntley in the branding in some respects; he's very much a marketing man and yes, there are strong parallels with Alex Hornby (especially with the relationship with Best Impressions). That said, I think the rebrand of the Fab 56 to Cityrider....well, that's as bland as could be. The livery could've done with a refresh but Cityrider.... must've taken about 12 seconds to come up with one.

As for X Lines, this is really a return in many respects to the former Expresslink concept of the late 80s/early 90s. It's about speed and quality, which is what Expresslink was; it's largely for those inter-urban corridors and an attempt to keep existing passengers and attract car users based on time and comfort, especially where there isn't a parallel rail line. A cynic might also point that they are also looking to achieve competitive advantage over the rather jaded Arriva offerings in some cases? In fact, a number of those routes are former Expresslink routes (Newcastle to Middlesbrough, Newcastle to Washington, Newcastle to Derwentside), others are new whilst some like the Hartlepool route have finally gone.

I'd take issue with notion that Stagecoach Gold and Arriva Sapphire haven't done them much good as an argument. Arriva's problems are much more fundamental, and Sapphire did certainly deliver benefits (e.g. Chester to Wrexham) but the whole thing has been overtaken by the general malaise of the protracted DB disposal. Stagecoach Gold was more successful and has delivered real patronage improvements. It isn't a panacea and some routes were strange choices for that sort of concept. Now whether you consider that every route should have, as a minimum, the standards that a Gold route has (better seating, USBs, quality standards, etc).....well, again, that's one of those common arguments much the same as routes as brands vs. one pervading network image.

I can certainly try and persuade people, using me as the actual example, that any branding which ties a route to a place or a specific route number, does work to capture discretionary travellers, simply by raising awareness of where a bus goes. I have used both Saltwell Park and Fab56, whereas before they were just a part of the impenetrable red web, where you really needed to dive right into stop names, timetables and the journey planner as a first port of call.

Fab56 works because it tied it to route 56, plucking it out of a morass of routes, many of which are in the 5x range. It takes a second to realise that's the purpose. It would be different if the vast majority of the brands used were simply plays on the number, and only the number (as opposed to Tyne Valley Ten) but they weren't. There was only The Ten, X9/X10, and Route 19, as far as I recall. In their scarcity and individuality, they worked.

Other brands like Red Kite and Prince Bishops were excellent picks for their broad geographic anchoring, and Tyne Valley Ten was an obvious improvement over The Ten (but they should really have carried over the colouring). It's all immensely useful in the never ending task of explaining where these buses go and how cheaply you can get there, from literally just down the street using another very distinctive branded bus that stands out from the Stagecoach crowd (now sadly an X-Line) to my mostly disinterested and easily confused brethren.

I can also hopefully appeal to what people surely already know - thanks already to their long standing commercial strategy and heavy use of marketing and promotion, GNE were already very well known for having a core business of fast and direct interurban links using high specced vehicles, where the whole purpose really is not just poaching passengers from the few cases where there is a direct or even indirect bus competitor, but capturing private car, taxi and rail travellers. Even their more basic interurban routes like Fab 56 are quite fast and reasonably direct, getting up a fair lick on the flat, precisely because of our geography and their vehicle choices.

Something needed to be done perhaps, but X-Lines really is quite generic, retrograde even, and it really doesn't make sense to me as a concept when there hasn't apparently been an effort to take another look at the actual numbering of the network, or whether there aren't even better routes or vehicle options, or even another look at terminal arrangements, if the USP really is speed, comfort and connectivity.

It really does smack of the idea of someone who hasn't perhaps appreciated what the company was already doing well, for quite a long time, and has simply tried to do here what they have seen done elsewhere. This is not an argument for localism in management, but it is an argument for knowing what you have, before you go about making changes.

Does anyone know what the best result GoldLine or Sapphire has ever achieved? Because I would be surprised if it was superior to past GNE growth, or that X-Lines will achieve anything close to it, assuming we ever get back to a normal normal.

I personally don't know the individual X-Lines route colours, and given I do know that apparently, for operational reasons, there will be routine use of generic X-Lines vehicles too, I see no reason to spend much time thinking about it, and even less telling anyone else.

It might be six months before my nearest and dearest even notice the orange bus at the end of our road has disappeared, and that would have been the case before lockdown too! Can I be bothered to explain it, to point out the gold bus is its replacement, and reassure them it does the exact same route, and explain that yet again, the brand has changed for reasons they are barely interested in, especially since the orange bus, even near the end of its life, was already either at par or above the spec of their usual fare?

Who here is confident that the X-Lines concept will even be with us for at least ten years? And if not, why not? I can see it being washed away the moment the next big thing arrives, most likely when the company decides what their interurban clean power option will be, the same way Saltwell Park was done away with in preference for Voltra.

As a passenger rather than enthusiast, Voltra really does irritate me, and it's only this discussion that has really solidified why. Can you imagine the blank stares, if QuayLink had instead been called Vapor? It was called QuayLink because the new clean tech was precisely what opened up that new route, connecting the Quayside.

Voltra's launch route was chosen only for operational reasons, where it goes was barely even mentioned in the launch publicity, because it apparently doesn't matter, not even from the perspective of putting clean buses on a known air quality hotspot, the way Lothian has been doing for example (without feeling the need to create a brand).

Much like Lothian, local people already know from all the previous marketing successes and overall commercial strategy, that if there's a new technology in play, GNE will be the first to try and leverage it, for their benefit. Unlike other places, where this sort of thirst for innovation is perhaps a little more unusual, it really doesn't need putting front and centre of the brand. Blow the trumpets, yes, but in terms of basic livery, other USPs were rightly always given priority, like where it goes (GNE) or overall image (Lothian).

 

[Andyh82]

As a passenger rather than enthusiast, Voltra really does irritate me, and it's only this discussion that has really solidified why. Can you imagine the blank stares, if QuayLink had instead been called Vapor? It was called QuayLink because the new clean tech was precisely what opened up that new route, connecting the Quayside.

Funny you should mention that, Quaylink Q3 is now QuayCity, and the rumours are (and this is reinforced by the Q1/Q2 not being rebranded) that the Voltra will be replacing the Q1/Q2 via the quayside, reducing the Q1/Q2 routes back to be Gateshead locals (like when they were 51/52)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I can certainly try and persuade people, using me as the actual example, that any branding which ties a route to a place or a specific route number, does work to capture discretionary travellers, simply by raising awareness of where a bus goes. I have used both Saltwell Park and Fab56, whereas before they were just a part of the impenetrable red web, where you really needed to dive right into stop names, timetables and the journey planner as a first port of call.

Fab56 works because it tied it to route 56, plucking it out of a morass of routes, many of which are in the 5x range. It takes a second to realise that's the purpose. It would be different if the vast majority of the brands used were simply plays on the number, and only the number (as opposed to Tyne Valley Ten) but they weren't. There was only The Ten, X9/X10, and Route 19, as far as I recall. In their scarcity and individuality, they worked.

Other brands like Red Kite and Prince Bishops were excellent picks for their broad geographic anchoring, and Tyne Valley Ten was an obvious improvement over The Ten (but they should really have carried over the colouring). It's all immensely useful in the never ending task of explaining where these buses go and how cheaply you can get there, from literally just down the street using another very distinctive branded bus that stands out from the Stagecoach crowd (now sadly an X-Line) to my mostly disinterested and easily confused brethren.

I can also hopefully appeal to what people surely already know - thanks already to their long standing commercial strategy and heavy use of marketing and promotion, GNE were already very well known for having a core business of fast and direct interurban links using high specced vehicles, where the whole purpose really is not just poaching passengers from the few cases where there is a direct or even indirect bus competitor, but capturing private car, taxi and rail travellers. Even their more basic interurban routes like Fab 56 are quite fast and reasonably direct, getting up a fair lick on the flat, precisely because of our geography and their vehicle choices.

Something needed to be done perhaps, but X-Lines really is quite generic, retrograde even, and it really doesn't make sense to me as a concept when there hasn't apparently been an effort to take another look at the actual numbering of the network, or whether there aren't even better routes or vehicle options, or even another look at terminal arrangements, if the USP really is speed, comfort and connectivity.

It really does smack of the idea of someone who hasn't perhaps appreciated what the company was already doing well, for quite a long time, and has simply tried to do here what they have seen done elsewhere. This is not an argument for localism in management, but it is an argument for knowing what you have, before you go about making changes.

Does anyone know what the best result GoldLine or Sapphire has ever achieved? Because I would be surprised if it was superior to past GNE growth, or that X-Lines will achieve anything close to it, assuming we ever get back to a normal normal.

I personally don't know the individual X-Lines route colours, and given I do know that apparently, for operational reasons, there will be routine use of generic X-Lines vehicles too, I see no reason to spend much time thinking about it, and even less telling anyone else.

It might be six months before my nearest and dearest even notice the orange bus at the end of our road has disappeared, and that would have been the case before lockdown too! Can I be bothered to explain it, to point out the gold bus is its replacement, and reassure them it does the exact same route, and explain that yet again, the brand has changed for reasons they are barely interested in, especially since the orange bus, even near the end of its life, was already either at par or above the spec of their usual fare?

Who here is confident that the X-Lines concept will even be with us for at least ten years? And if not, why not? I can see it being washed away the moment the next big thing arrives, most likely when the company decides what their interurban clean power option will be, the same way Saltwell Park was done away with in preference for Voltra.

As a passenger rather than enthusiast, Voltra really does irritate me, and it's only this discussion that has really solidified why. Can you imagine the blank stares, if QuayLink had instead been called Vapor? It was called QuayLink because the new clean tech was precisely what opened up that new route, connecting the Quayside.

Voltra's launch route was chosen only for operational reasons, where it goes was barely even mentioned in the launch publicity, because it apparently doesn't matter, not even from the perspective of putting clean buses on a known air quality hotspot, the way Lothian has been doing for example (without feeling the need to create a brand).

Much like Lothian, local people already know from all the previous marketing successes and overall commercial strategy, that if there's a new technology in play, GNE will be the first to try and leverage it, for their benefit. Unlike other places, where this sort of thirst for innovation is perhaps a little more unusual, it really doesn't need putting front and centre of the brand. Blow the trumpets, yes, but in terms of basic livery, other USPs were rightly always given priority, like where it goes (GNE) or overall image (Lothian).

I'm not asking you to convince me.... Just saying that it is one of those discussions that has long exercised people's minds about the merits of branding, or premium products, or whether having wifi and USBs is anything other than a gimmick. Note: for the benefit of @GusB and @Bungle965 - I'm not advising that we do go down that line and discuss those hackneyed old subjects

I'm not certain whether your take on "localism" is quite justified. Peter Huntley came in from outside, whilst some of the unpicking of the individual route branding was done by Kevin Carr - a man who was Northern General, man and boy. It was he who consigned quite a number of brands back to the "red web", as well as ones such as changing ones like East Durham to IndiGo. I think Carr was also behind the Fab 57 going in favour of the more mundane Citylink.

You might remember that some of the old brands were not very good in Huntley's time. I think I said Solar earlier when I actually meant Laser (and that was a genuine misremember so not that memorable). Then you had Pulse - was that any better than Voltra; I know it served the QE but it's pretty tenuous as a connection. Same with the Washington Street Shuttle - it had some stars, and some stripes, but that was about as American as it got.

Martijn Gilbert has obviously decided to undertake some refreshing of the brands. I'm not convinced that he's it 100% - the loss of Fab 56 in favour of a more anodyne generic City Rider (as per the Carr era Fab 57 going) is pretty underwhelming. Loss of the Blaydon Racers is also a bit retrograde.

As for the success of brands like Arriva Sapphire or Stagecoach Gold.... We're not party to the financials, obviously. Some were odd conversions in the first place and didn't succeed (e.g. Caerphilly through to the Upper Rhondda) whilst others have continued on. Perhaps success has been a more modest improvement or at least staunching the decline of passengers? Ones where there was a notable increase in capacity and/or frequency that justified new deckers were:

• Swindon to Oxford went from half hourly standard e300s to Gold deckers up to every 20 mins to new Gold deckers up to every 15 mins.
• Chester to Wrexham was every 15 mins but went from standard single decks to refurbished Sapphire e400 to new e400 city.
• Aldershot to Camberley went from every 10 mins but from standard e300s to gold e300s to gold e400mmcs, even getting a night service

There are no guarantees but it has certainly worked in some instances; whether it was better than GNE.... can't say. Again, it's one of those discussions that has been had for the last 30 years (when Trent first introduced Rainbow routes).

I'd have travelled back north and had a look at the new X lines but travel has been somewhat curtailed this year! It's certainly interesting.

 

[MotCO]

As an outsider to thre North East, I initially felt that the Fab 56 was a strange name to use, but it's almost along the lines that it's so bad that it's good - it certainly stood out. Likewise, as the Grand Wazoo comments, Laser was not memorable, but Prince Regents are. The Angel 21 also stood out and was clear where it went. I was certainly made me aware of the different brands and colour schemes.

Are there many routes not branded? If so, does this imply that those routes are not so important, may not have such good buses and may not attract much new custom?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Prince Regents

Prince Bishops!