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Go North East

TheGrandWazoo

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The X84/85 is the “end to end” route (as is the 685) helped by the peripheral locations of the Hexham and Central stations (and that of Corbridge). It has a long history as has been discussed before.

However, historically the 10 (as the 602) was the premier route along the Tyne Valley and had modern or new deckers in various incarnations. It doesn’t serve end to end markets but a series of overlapping flows. It was also supplemented by other routes that were wrapped into the 10.

I suspect it will be in line for a refresh at some point but with so many refreshes and upgrades, those not yet treated look a bit jaded in comparison.
 
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cnjb8

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The 10 does seem to be the most complained about route in terms of fleet. To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the next routes to get a refurb
 

bobslack1982

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The 10 service is no laughing matter - the buses that run on it feel distinctly out of date compared to many other routes, without even features like charging which are now standard on virtually all of the longer Go North East routes.

The problem is how you'd upgrade the route. It's not isn't a route which really fits the X-Lines philosophy, because it's less about end to end links, and more about local journeys. It also tends to be quite taxing on the buses which run it because it runs through quite undulating terrain - if anything, the shorter 10A and 10B routes are worse for that. It would be nice to have them become like the 309/310 routes (almost X-Lines standard, but not part of the same brand), but that would not come cheap given the high frequency and long length of these routes - so I don't know what they'll do.
Agreed. There’s no way something like a B5TL or hybrid would cope on some of the hills those routes pass over. That’s why they failed on the X9/X10 (despite it being abundantly clear they were unsuitable) and they had to bring in the second hand Elites.
 

kez19

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Agreed. There’s no way something like a B5TL or hybrid would cope on some of the hills those routes pass over. That’s why they failed on the X9/X10 (despite it being abundantly clear they were unsuitable) and they had to bring in the second hand Elites.


I had wondered why the change from double decks on the X9/X10 to the elites as last time I used that was to Dalton Park
 

Andyh82

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I had wondered why the change from double decks on the X9/X10 to the elites as last time I used that was to Dalton Park
Basically because the Elites were Going spare within the group, so it solved both the problem of finding a home for some of them, and solved the issue that the deckers previously used were constantly getting worn out too quickly due to the heavy work
 

Bristol LHS

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I'm guessing it should be called the West than the East (lol), I don't know politics in the area but what makes it political if I may ask? (better understanding) :)

Sorry, I didn’t mean it was a political isssue, just that ‘East Gateshead’ sounds like the name of a council ward or MP’s seat (e.g. Newcastle East). I see someone’s suggested it may be linked to a bus partnership, which i guess will have similar local authority origins, drawing a line round a patch on a map rather than referring to real places (eg Felling and Heworth)
 

bobslack1982

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I had wondered why the change from double decks on the X9/X10 to the elites as last time I used that was to Dalton Park
Yeah, the B5s are only 4 years old but it seemed like even after around 2 years they were having to substitute most of them for other vehicles as they weren’t up to it.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Basically because the Elites were Going spare within the group, so it solved both the problem of finding a home for some of them, and solved the issue that the deckers previously used were constantly getting worn out too quickly due to the heavy work
Indeed, it solved a problem in redeploying the Oxford Elites.

However, the X9/X10 is pretty punishing for vehicles with long amounts of high speed running. The hills on the 10 aren't that tough and are certainly less demanding than the X45-7 where the Streetdecks live, or indeed on the X21.
 

kez19

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Yeah, the B5s are only 4 years old but it seemed like even after around 2 years they were having to substitute most of them for other vehicles as they weren’t up to it.

Weren’t they the street decks in a way? I’d call them streetdecks lol but you know what I mean

Sorry, I didn’t mean it was a political isssue, just that ‘East Gateshead’ sounds like the name of a council ward or MP’s seat (e.g. Newcastle East). I see someone’s suggested it may be linked to a bus partnership, which i guess will have similar local authority origins, drawing a line round a patch on a map rather than referring to real places (eg Felling and Heworth)


That’s fine, I just wondered if something had gone on lol, but you are right and that I agree about the East Gateshead slogan
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Having had a few days seeing the family in the North, I had a second opportunity to get out and explore. I'm an exiled Northerner who spent much of the late 80s and 90s trawling all over the North East and Yorkshire before and after deregulation using Explorer North East tickets**. Having moved away, it's now a rare treat to go out and not something I'd done for a while given personal commitments and then Covid restrictions. So in glorious sunshine and with some anticipation as to what the local operators (esp Go North East are up to). Hopefully, you find this interesting, and not too full of self-indulgent wiffle and I'd welcome any feedback as to whether my experiences were typical etc.

The weather was set fair, and so I made my way to Faverdale in Darlington, not far from the Arriva depot. My first bus of the day was to be the historic service 1 to Bishop Auckland which had featured on my first ever Explorer trip just over 35 years ago. Rather than a knackered United Leyland National, it was to be an Arriva Sapphire specification Wright Streetlite that duly arrived and off we went. 1614 was one of the last new vehicles delivered to Arriva North East in early 2018 as investment has stalled in what was a fairly modern fleet. This example had the wifi, USB charging etc that we'd expect though. Now, the route interworks with the X1 and the 5/5A (I think) and 1614 was on home turf though there seemed to be a variety of other vehicles in use - vehicle allocations in Darlington seem to be "fluid" if I'm charitable. The Streetlite was also emblematic of the quality issues that Wright had - it was bad even for a Streetlite, as we clattered our way towards Bishop Auckland. The route in Shildon still surprises me....I'm still stuck in the 90s!! We picked up a few people but deposited most before reaching Bishop bus station.

Arriving there, the place was almost deserted with people and buses. It reflects, in part, how services have declined after the purchase of the former OK operations by Arriva and then cuts that preceded and followed the closure of Bishop depot. However, the bus station remains resolutely familiar and bleak; whilst the travel kiosk is a cafe, the public toilets are still unremittingly grim! I waited for my next bus and it was the X1 to Tow Law - this was a decker surprisingly (branded for the Durham to Darlington route) and in the original Sapphire scheme. To be honest, it wasn't bad internally though the aspirational Sapphire sparkling vinyls (courtesy of Best Impressions) seemed to be out of kilter with the slightly down at heel presentation. However, the ride was brilliant. After traversing Newton Cap, we climbed and climbed through Crook. I had the top deck to myself as we continued our ascent, with views across the Wear Valley and the various former pit villages scattered beneath me. On a cloudless day, it was superb and as we headed to Sunniside, the whole vista of County Durham and North Pennines opened out. Oddly, I've never done the route past Crook to Tow Law but what a day to break my duck. For the uninitiated, Tow Law is a large moor top village that is pretty bleak at times, and the terminus at Inkerman is a layby on the far edge of the village. If you can get the weather, it's a cracking run. The problem is that there aren't too many other journey options. However, the Mon-Fri 764 service from Wolsingham to Consett runs between the schools and so I joined the dozen pensioners on a small Solo operated by Weardale. Weardale used to accept/issue Explorers but exited the scheme a number of years ago which is a shame as they and Scarlet Band have rushed in to fill the void caused by Arriva's retrenchment. The single to Consett was a mere £1.80 which is a bargain.

I arrived at Consett bus station and the usual array of time served deckers laying over between schools was more interesting with a range of East Yorkshire and Lothian liveried examples in attendance. I had heard that the bus station might be redeveloped as part of a town centre regeneration though that might be a tricky ask seeing as how much out of town development has been permitted. It was a quick change and onto my first X-Lines route, the rebranding and respecifying of various routes that are seen as quick links that generally seek to link places without rail services, and employing higher specification vehicles, in partnership with Best Impressions. My first one was the X45 and a Wright Streetdeck about a year old. Streetdecks get a bad rap but this was ok. As with all my GNE services, timetables were available onboard and I went upstairs and enjoyed the view from my table seat as we headed through Ebchester. However, I was bailing early at Bank Top allowing me a leisurely stroll down the hill to Blackhill Mill; it's odd that there are frequent routes to there and Bank Top but few routes traverse the short distance between the two. Even better, there's a tremendous bakery there with all manner of tasty treats. I got a latte and cake to go and went round the corner to catch my next bus.

This was the 10A, part of the Tyne Valley 10 network, worked by a B9TL that I'd last encountered working on the X10 to Middlesbrough! Now mention was made early on this thread about complaints about these vehicles on the TV10. To be honest, I didn't have an issue. These are 9 years old but are pretty well kept inside and out. Certainly, a mid life refurb might be appropriate but it was a decent machine as we weaved through Chopwell (once known as Little Russia on account of local communist support that saw Marx and Lenin Terraces built). We then went through High Spen where the bus stand is adjacent to where the bus depot used to be. We then weaved around, as shown on the excellent leaflet and map contained therein . However, we were losing time and I suddenly realised that my next connection (a 6 min gap at Crawcrook) was in peril. And so it came to pass that I missed my 686 to Ovington, and a replan was needed. More worrying, the next scheduled 10 to Corbridge wasn't tracking!!

It thankfully did arrive in the form of a Citaro on the otherwise DD route. I'm not a great fan of these; the seating layout reflects its origins as a multi door bus and the built quality can be a bit patchy as on this one. Still, we sped through to Corbridge. I could've continued onto Hexham but I'd been bouncing from bus to bus so thought I'd have a more civilised break and grab a sandwich to eat in the sun whilst I worked out my revised itinerary. Now, this is something.... Stagecoach's presence on the 685 appears to have disappeared according to BusTimes. Assume that they are still actually running but that the feed has somehow disappeared?? The next machine though was another new X-Lines machine with one of the X84/X85 e400mmcs. I got on and grabbed the timetable leaflet - publicity on GNE is excellent. In fact, the map in the leaflet was arguably better than that on the interior cove panels (so why not use that). Moreover, the seat was possibly the most comfortable I've ever had on a bus. Apart from the odd bodywork creak, it was a superb and refined trip onto the A69 before diving into Heddon. I missed out on Transdev's SkyClass the other day but these are some of nicest machines I've experienced. It was interesting to compare with the newish Stagecoach examples as we travelled along West Road and see how dull the promotion is despite eLeather seats on city routes. I really don't know what Stagecoach are doing with their promotion and approach and that awful livery though Busways have always been very conservative. Another thing was the repainting of a number of e300s but not bothering with the roof as "no-one can see it" except, of course, you can. So you have a patch of old livery clearly on view from the top deck of a decker.... It smacks of cheap and nasty cost cutting.

I knew that it would be a tight connection but I reckoned I'd probably miss it (and I was right) as the introduction of the longer ex Oxford coaches has seen the X9/X10 moved from Eldon Square to Newgate Street. Instead, I had a bit of a stroll and then literally stumbled upon the new Voltra electric Yutongs on Market Street. Knowing I could get the X10 from Gateshead, I caught a Voltra on the 53. Now, they have the exterior styling of a breeze block but internally they were much nicer. The wireless charging was used to bolster the battery, and whilst it's only a short journey of about 8 minutes, I was much more impressed with these machines that the Harrogate 7900e types. Barely a rattle (I know they're nearly new) and just felt much more robust machines. I got off at Gateshead Metro and headed to the coach bay for the X10, only to find that there was no Interdeck but one of the spare, neutral branded X Lines Streetdecks. Bit disappointing but still a nice run along the A19. Again, the X10 is a route I've used so many times over the years and aside from the mental turbo charged MCW Metrobuses, these are probably some of the best vehicles to have operated it though a delay departure from Gateshead was never overcome. It was certainly a lot smarter than the Max spec Arriva Pulsar that passed through on the X12 - replacement panels, poor colour matching, missing vinyls - it looked a state for 9 years old. Knowing I had time to spare, I dived off at Norton Green and waited for the next Stagecoach machine to maximise my Explorer functionality. The bus that arrived was 22070 working the 35 which I suspect is a route where the older stuff is dumped. Noticing the internal vinyls, I wondered if this was an ex Newcastle machine and yes, that did explain some of the "out of context" adverts. Moreover, the ageing MAN was, by far, the worst bus I had all day. It rattled like hell on hitting any bump in the road, and the raft of notices internally was bewildering. Certainly no creating desire there!

However, it was only 10 mins and then a quick leap onto the X66/67 to Darlington. Now this route highlights the gulf, nay chasm, between Go North East and Arriva. This would be an X Lines route in the GNE lexicon, with modern smart vehicles, good interior and external marketing, and all the bells and whistles to generate passenger growth. In Arriva world, it is a Max route and should be operated by 2005 Scania Omnicities (and a couple of newer Pulsars) albeit refurbished. On the X66/X67, a few of these were working alongside a Darlington gas bus, a Streetlite and a Pulsar but my steed was Solo 2836. New in 2008, it has the old Arriva moquette having not been refurbished. It had Best Impressions designed ads to promote the Max and Sapphire routes but looking a bit dowdy in keeping with this machine that bore the Frequenta fleetname for Darlington locals. In addition, the X67 now encompasses much of Hartburn and is so routed as an express in Darlington via some industrial areas that will generate little traffic, which is odd in itself when operating as per the X66 round Whinbush in Darlington seems more sensible? 2836 is a decent enough machine but that on a primary route like that... a route that could and should be nurtured and is instead reduced to having some ageing refurbs that are then replaced as they fail with whatever else is in the depot. It might be Covid related but the customer numbers of 4 on my journey is worryingly low. The Darlington depot, even in United times, was known as being worse for presentation and standards. However, it demonstrated everything that has bugged me about Arriva in recent years. Route allocations are haphazard and everything looks so jaded - it feels like life stopped about 5 years ago with Arriva North East and I can see the complacency that led to GNE and Peter Huntley exploiting the torpor being repeated. Naturally, it felt appropriate to get the X1 back from Darlington town centre to Faverdale on a 7 branded decker again.

I know that my observations are coloured or influenced by my own sensitivities. I appreciate that I am looking out for "these things". GNE seems to have a handle on service delivery and is being innovative in the main. That said, I think that the unleashing of Best Impressions is also leading to a "not invented here" approach and they are losing some distinctive brands in favour of things that are more anodyne. In the round, they seem to be doing most things right and Martijn Gilbert is a born marketeer but it feels like there's the operational backbone to meet the hype (in the main). I was genuinely stunned by how poor Arriva in Darlington has got; I really only saw fleeting glimpses of Arriva vehicles in Stockton (again, not a great depot historically) whilst not seeing those depots who are usually better like Durham and Blyth. However, as I say, it feels like a business that is suspended in aspic from c.2016 - little or no investment, the Sapphire and Max initiatives now nothing more than remnants of a more optimistic and vibrant age, and treading water as the fleet gets increasing aged with Max routes (the second string but important inter-urban services) continue to be operated by vehicles that date from the mid-2000s.

** Having checked my records from June 1986, another early Explorer trip involved a trip from Darlington via Newcastle (on an RELH) and then into the Tyne Valley on the 685 and 602 (now 10) before heading back to Newcastle to catch the X10 (United DP Olympian) to Teesside and then returning back to Darlington on a Mk2 National.... a strange echo and quite coincidental :D
 
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Having had a few days seeing the family in the North, I had a second opportunity to get out and explore. I'm an exiled Northerner who spent much of the late 80s and 90s trawling all over the North East and Yorkshire before and after deregulation using Explorer North East tickets**. Having moved away, it's now a rare treat to go out and not something I'd done for a while given personal commitments and then Covid restrictions. So in glorious sunshine and with some anticipation as to what the local operators (esp Go North East are up to). Hopefully, you find this interesting, and not too full of self-indulgent wiffle and I'd welcome any feedback as to whether my experiences were typical etc.

The weather was set fair, and so I made my way to Faverdale in Darlington, not far from the Arriva depot. My first bus of the day was to be the historic service 1 to Bishop Auckland which had featured on my first ever Explorer trip just over 35 years ago. Rather than a knackered United Leyland National, it was to be an Arriva Sapphire specification Wright Streetlite that duly arrived and off we went. 1614 was one of the last new vehicles delivered to Arriva North East in early 2018 as investment has stalled in what was a fairly modern fleet. This example had the wifi, USB charging etc that we'd expect though. Now, the route interworks with the X1 and the 5/5A (I think) and 1614 was on home turf though there seemed to be a variety of other vehicles in use - vehicle allocations in Darlington seem to be "fluid" if I'm charitable. The Streetlite was also emblematic of the quality issues that Wright had - it was bad even for a Streetlite, as we clattered our way towards Bishop Auckland. The route in Shildon still surprises me....I'm still stuck in the 90s!! We picked up a few people but deposited most before reaching Bishop bus station.

Arriving there, the place was almost deserted with people and buses. It reflects, in part, how services have declined after the purchase of the former OK operations by Arriva and then cuts that preceded and followed the closure of Bishop depot. However, the bus station remains resolutely familiar and bleak; whilst the travel kiosk is a cafe, the public toilets are still unremittingly grim! I waited for my next bus and it was the X1 to Tow Law - this was a decker surprisingly (branded for the Durham to Darlington route) and in the original Sapphire scheme. To be honest, it wasn't bad internally though the aspirational Sapphire sparkling vinyls (courtesy of Best Impressions) seemed to be out of kilter with the slightly down at heel presentation. However, the ride was brilliant. After traversing Newton Cap, we climbed and climbed through Crook. I had the top deck to myself as we continued our ascent, with views across the Wear Valley and the various former pit villages scattered beneath me. On a cloudless day, it was superb and as we headed to Sunniside, the whole vista of County Durham and North Pennines opened out. Oddly, I've never done the route past Crook to Tow Law but what a day to break my duck. For the uninitiated, Tow Law is a large moor top village that is pretty bleak at times, and the terminus at Inkerman is a layby on the far edge of the village. If you can get the weather, it's a cracking run. The problem is that there aren't too many other journey options. However, the Mon-Fri 764 service from Wolsingham to Consett runs between the schools and so I joined the dozen pensioners on a small Solo operated by Weardale. Weardale used to accept/issue Explorers but exited the scheme a number of years ago which is a shame as they and Scarlet Band have rushed in to fill the void caused by Arriva's retrenchment. The single to Consett was a mere £1.80 which is a bargain.

I arrived at Consett bus station and the usual array of time served deckers laying over between schools was more interesting with a range of East Yorkshire and Lothian liveried examples in attendance. I had heard that the bus station might be redeveloped as part of a town centre regeneration though that might be a tricky ask seeing as how much out of town development has been permitted. It was a quick change and onto my first X-Lines route, the rebranding and respecifying of various routes that are seen as quick links that generally seek to link places without rail services, and employing higher specification vehicles, in partnership with Best Impressions. My first one was the X45 and a Wright Streetdeck about a year old. Streetdecks get a bad rap but this was ok. As with all my GNE services, timetables were available onboard and I went upstairs and enjoyed the view from my table seat as we headed through Ebchester. However, I was bailing early at Bank Top allowing me a leisurely stroll down the hill to Blackhill Mill; it's odd that there are frequent routes to there and Bank Top but few routes traverse the short distance between the two. Even better, there's a tremendous bakery there with all manner of tasty treats. I got a latte and cake to go and went round the corner to catch my next bus.

This was the 10A, part of the Tyne Valley 10 network, worked by a B9TL that I'd last encountered working on the X10 to Middlesbrough! Now mention was made early on this thread about complaints about these vehicles on the TV10. To be honest, I didn't have an issue. These are 9 years old but are pretty well kept inside and out. Certainly, a mid life refurb might be appropriate but it was a decent machine as we weaved through Chopwell (once known as Little Russia on account of local communist support that saw Marx and Lenin Terraces built). We then went through High Spen where the bus stand is adjacent to where the bus depot used to be. We then weaved around, as shown on the excellent leaflet and map contained therein . However, we were losing time and I suddenly realised that my next connection (a 6 min gap at Crawcrook) was in peril. And so it came to pass that I missed my 686 to Ovington, and a replan was needed. More worrying, the next scheduled 10 to Corbridge wasn't tracking!!

It thankfully did arrive in the form of a Citaro on the otherwise DD route. I'm not a great fan of these; the seating layout reflects its origins as a multi door bus and the built quality can be a bit patchy as on this one. Still, we sped through to Corbridge. I could've continued onto Hexham but I'd been bouncing from bus to bus so thought I'd have a more civilised break and grab a sandwich to eat in the sun whilst I worked out my revised itinerary. Now, this is something.... Stagecoach's presence on the 685 appears to have disappeared according to BusTimes. Assume that they are still actually running but that the feed has somehow disappeared?? The next machine though was another new X-Lines machine with one of the X84/X85 e400mmcs. I got on and grabbed the timetable leaflet - publicity on GNE is excellent. In fact, the map in the leaflet was arguably better than that on the interior cove panels (so why not use that). Moreover, the seat was possibly the most comfortable I've ever had on a bus. Apart from the odd bodywork creak, it was a superb and refined trip onto the A69 before diving into Heddon. I missed out on Transdev's SkyClass the other day but these are some of nicest machines I've experienced. It was interesting to compare with the newish Stagecoach examples as we travelled along West Road and see how dull the promotion is despite eLeather seats on city routes. I really don't know what Stagecoach are doing with their promotion and approach and that awful livery though Busways have always been very conservative. Another thing was the repainting of a number of e300s but not bothering with the roof as "no-one can see it" except, of course, you can. So you have a patch of old livery clearly on view from the top deck of a decker.... It smacks of cheap and nasty cost cutting.

I knew that it would be a tight connection but I reckoned I'd probably miss it (and I was right) as the introduction of the longer ex Oxford coaches has seen the X9/X10 moved from Eldon Square to Newgate Street. Instead, I had a bit of a stroll and then literally stumbled upon the new Voltra electric Yutongs on Market Street. Knowing I could get the X10 from Gateshead, I caught a Voltra on the 53. Now, they have the exterior styling of a breeze block but internally they were much nicer. The wireless charging was used to bolster the battery, and whilst it's only a short journey of about 8 minutes, I was much more impressed with these machines that the Harrogate 7900e types. Barely a rattle (I know they're nearly new) and just felt much more robust machines. I got off at Gateshead Metro and headed to the coach bay for the X10, only to find that there was no Interdeck but one of the spare, neutral branded X Lines Streetdecks. Bit disappointing but still a nice run along the A19. Again, the X10 is a route I've used so many times over the years and aside from the mental turbo charged MCW Metrobuses, these are probably some of the best vehicles to have operated it though a delay departure from Gateshead was never overcome. It was certainly a lot smarter than the Max spec Arriva Pulsar that passed through on the X12 - replacement panels, poor colour matching, missing vinyls - it looked a state for 9 years old. Knowing I had time to spare, I dived off at Norton Green and waited for the next Stagecoach machine to maximise my Explorer functionality. The bus that arrived was 22070 working the 35 which I suspect is a route where the older stuff is dumped. Noticing the internal vinyls, I wondered if this was an ex Newcastle machine and yes, that did explain some of the "out of context" adverts. Moreover, the ageing MAN was, by far, the worst bus I had all day. It rattled like hell on hitting any bump in the road, and the raft of notices internally was bewildering. Certainly no creating desire there!

However, it was only 10 mins and then a quick leap onto the X66/67 to Darlington. Now this route highlights the gulf, nay chasm, between Go North East and Arriva. This would be an X Lines route in the GNE lexicon, with modern smart vehicles, good interior and external marketing, and all the bells and whistles to generate passenger growth. In Arriva world, it is a Max route and should be operated by 2005 Scania Omnicities (and a couple of newer Pulsars) albeit refurbished. On the X66/X67, a few of these were working alongside a Darlington gas bus, a Streetlite and a Pulsar but my steed was Solo 2836. New in 2008, it has the old Arriva moquette having not been refurbished. It had Best Impressions designed ads to promote the Max and Sapphire routes but looking a bit dowdy in keeping with this machine that bore the Frequenta fleetname for Darlington locals. In addition, the X67 now encompasses much of Hartburn and is so routed as an express in Darlington via some industrial areas that will generate little traffic, which is odd in itself when operating as per the X66 round Whinbush in Darlington seems more sensible? 2836 is a decent enough machine but that on a primary route like that... a route that could and should be nurtured and is instead reduced to having some ageing refurbs that are then replaced as they fail with whatever else is in the depot. It might be Covid related but the customer numbers of 4 on my journey is worryingly low. The Darlington depot, even in United times, was known as being worse for presentation and standards. However, it demonstrated everything that has bugged me about Arriva in recent years. Route allocations are haphazard and everything looks so jaded - it feels like life stopped about 5 years ago with Arriva North East and I can see the complacency that led to GNE and Peter Huntley exploiting the torpor being repeated. Naturally, it felt appropriate to get the X1 back from Darlington town centre to Faverdale on a 7 branded decker again.

I know that my observations are coloured or influenced by my own sensitivities. I appreciate that I am looking out for "these things". GNE seems to have a handle on service delivery and is being innovative in the main. That said, I think that the unleashing of Best Impressions is also leading to a "not invented here" approach and they are losing some distinctive brands in favour of things that are more anodyne. In the round, they seem to be doing most things right and Martijn Gilbert is a born marketeer but it feels like there's the operational backbone to meet the hype (in the main). I was genuinely stunned by how poor Arriva in Darlington has got; I really only saw fleeting glimpses of Arriva vehicles in Stockton (again, not a great depot historically) whilst not seeing those depots who are usually better like Durham and Blyth. However, as I say, it feels like a business that is suspended in aspic from c.2016 - little or no investment, the Sapphire and Max initiatives now nothing more than remnants of a more optimistic and vibrant age, and treading water as the fleet gets increasing aged with Max routes (the second string but important inter-urban services) continue to be operated by vehicles that date from the mid-2000s.

** Having checked my records from June 1986, another early Explorer trip involved a trip from Darlington via Newcastle (on an RELH) and then into the Tyne Valley on the 685 and 602 (now 10) before heading back to Newcastle to catch the X10 (United DP Olympian) to Teesside and then returning back to Darlington on a Mk2 National.... a strange echo and quite coincidental :D
What an interesting read, that might have been me driving your 602 in 1986, IIRC that was before deregulation, alas Jesmond lost nearly all it's cross boundary work after that.

I see Go north east are looking for drivers " up to" 20k but that includes overtime, they are not saying an hourly rate even when asked. So that's a no from me.

It's a shame, post dereg Northern were one of the better paid companies, we lost a load of drivers to them.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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What an interesting read, that might have been me driving your 602 in 1986, IIRC that was before deregulation, alas Jesmond lost nearly all it's cross boundary work after that.
Glad you found it interesting.

It was a Blyth depot working when the 601/2 interworked with the X25/6! Were you a Jesmond or a Gallowgate driver? At some point, you might have driven me either on a 600 or a 306, depending where you were!

As an exiled North Easterner (albeit a bit further South), it was really good to get out for a day in some familiar (and unfamiliar) surroundings. First time for nearly 4 years!
 
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Back in Geordieland!
Glad you found it interesting.

It was a Blyth depot working when the 601/2 interworked with the X25/6! Were you a Jesmond or a Gallowgate driver? At some point, you might have driven me either on a 600 or a 306, depending where you were!

As an exiled North Easterner (albeit a bit further South), it was really good to get out for a day in some familiar (and unfamiliar) surroundings. First time for nearly 4 years!
Jesmond, but all 4 depots did that run, twas a grand day out, 5 hours with zero repetition of route, although the 601/2 was remarkably similar. Done many thousands of hours on the 306.
 

tbtc

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Another interesting trip from @TheGrandWazoo - someone sign him up as a Mystery Shopper!

The Streetlite was also emblematic of the quality issues that Wright had - it was bad even for a Streetlite

"bad. even for a Streetlite" is saying something - ouch!

as we clattered our way towards Bishop Auckland. The route in Shildon still surprises me....I'm still stuck in the 90s!! We picked up a few people but deposited most before reaching Bishop bus station

I know that some routes in the north east are significantly shorter than they used to be (e.g. the 723 was every half hour from Newcastle to Darlington, rather than being chopped at Durham... the X1 and X66 that you were on would both once have been part of the half hourly Bishop Auckland - Darlo - Boro - Redcar service that is now split between three separate routes) - as well as some long routes that no longer exist (the Stagecoach service from Darlington to the Metro Centre/ Newcastle - was this the X90?) but am I right in thinking that the Durham - Bishop Auckland and Bishop Auckland - Darlington services were once a through service? Or was it just that there were some Durham - Bishop Auckland - Shildon extensions?

Arriving there, the place was almost deserted with people and buses. It reflects, in part, how services have declined after the purchase of the former OK operations by Arriva and then cuts that preceded and followed the closure of Bishop depot. However, the bus station remains resolutely familiar and bleak; whilst the travel kiosk is a cafe, the public toilets are still unremittingly grim!

It seems a strange town for buses - the town centre is at the far end of the town and the bus station is at the far end of the "centre" - and the big retail park expansion towards West Auckland must have hit demand for what's left of the town centre

I've never done the route past Crook to Tow Law but what a day to break my duck. For the uninitiated, Tow Law is a large moor top village that is pretty bleak at times, and the terminus at Inkerman is a layby on the far edge of the village. If you can get the weather, it's a cracking run

I'd been through Tow Law a few times before picking up any public transport information in the north east (as passenger on car journeys between Scotland and Yorkshire) - it was surprising to find just how good the public transport was, given how isolated it is (but, oddly, towards Bishop Auckland/ Darlington rather than Durham/ Gateshead/ Newcastle)

I arrived at Consett bus station and the usual array of time served deckers laying over between schools was more interesting with a range of East Yorkshire and Lothian liveried examples in attendance. I had heard that the bus station might be redeveloped as part of a town centre regeneration though that might be a tricky ask seeing as how much out of town development has been permitted

Same comments as Bishop Auckland - a few towns in the NE are struggling to compete with such developments - last time I was in North Shields, most of the shops had "relocated to Silverlink" posters in the window... but at least Consett town centre has Barry's Bargain Superstore which is surely a match for any retail park!

we weaved through Chopwell (once known as Little Russia on account of local communist support that saw Marx and Lenin Terraces built)

I've never been but I "recognised" it from your comment, having grown up near similar places, e.g. I first knew of Keir Hardie because Keir Hardie Drive was the terminus of the Eastern Scottish 86 in Mayfield (Midlothian) - I didn't know who the guy was until I was a bit older!

I got on and grabbed the timetable leaflet - publicity on GNE is excellent. In fact, the map in the leaflet was arguably better than that on the interior cove panels (so why not use that)

Oddly the website seems to have lost pretty much all of the "local" maps (other than the Whitley Bay and Consett ones) - individual route maps are on each route's page on the website but there's no "one" map for (e.g.) Sunderland - something which Stagecoach do provide

It was interesting to compare with the newish Stagecoach examples as we travelled along West Road and see how dull the promotion is despite eLeather seats on city routes. I really don't know what Stagecoach are doing with their promotion and approach and that awful livery though Busways have always been very conservative. Another thing was the repainting of a number of e300s but not bothering with the roof as "no-one can see it" except, of course, you can. So you have a patch of old livery clearly on view from the top deck of a decker.... It smacks of cheap and nasty cost cutting

I'm not a fan of the new Stagecoach livery (I don't think it suits buses, I think it was designed by people who didn't consider the shape of vehicles or the practicalities of how buses operate - e.g. the panels likely to be damaged in RTCs, the areas likely to show up dirt, especially from splashing through puddles) - the "fresh" colours might be suited to a washing powder or a goalkeeper's kit but don't sit well on a blocky bus with big black windows/destination screen etc.

But even if I did love it, the way that Stagecoach are implementing it seems really haphazard - inconsistent in application, fairly random in terms of which vehicles got it first - and there seems to be no "hype" for flagship buses or flagship routes (compared to the way that liveries like the original "Barbie" were used to represent a step change in quality, or "Max" / "Sapphire" promise something better than the average Arriva vehicle).

Stagecoach Gold promised a certain standard of comfort/style, but splashing the new livery onto any old vehicle (and with all the discrepancies) seems such a waste

it demonstrated everything that has bugged me about Arriva in recent years. Route allocations are haphazard and everything looks so jaded - it feels like life stopped about 5 years ago with Arriva North East and I can see the complacency that led to GNE and Peter Huntley exploiting the torpor being repeated

I was genuinely stunned by how poor Arriva in Darlington has got; I really only saw fleeting glimpses of Arriva vehicles in Stockton (again, not a great depot historically) whilst not seeing those depots who are usually better like Durham and Blyth. However, as I say, it feels like a business that is suspended in aspic from c.2016 - little or no investment, the Sapphire and Max initiatives now nothing more than remnants of a more optimistic and vibrant age, and treading water as the fleet gets increasing aged with Max routes (the second string but important inter-urban services) continue to be operated by vehicles that date from the mid-2000s

I've not seen much of Arriva in the last couple of years but your comments seem bang on the nose - I don't know whether the fault lies with DB (for not encouraging any kind of strategy, given the "for sale" signs) or management, but it feels a very underwhelming business
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Thank you for your kind comments. If a firm would like to employ me as a mystery shopper, then I'd be happy to do so (depending on the money :D ). A few interesting points that you raise that I'd come back on...

I know that some routes in the north east are significantly shorter than they used to be (e.g. the 723 was every half hour from Newcastle to Darlington, rather than being chopped at Durham... the X1 and X66 that you were on would both once have been part of the half hourly Bishop Auckland - Darlo - Boro - Redcar service that is now split between three separate routes) - as well as some long routes that no longer exist (the Stagecoach service from Darlington to the Metro Centre/ Newcastle - was this the X90?) but am I right in thinking that the Durham - Bishop Auckland and Bishop Auckland - Darlington services were once a through service? Or was it just that there were some Durham - Bishop Auckland - Shildon extensions?
There's a bit of waxing and waning on certain routes so here goes....

Bishop to Durham was historically the United/Northern joint route 724 from there and running to Newcastle via Chester le Street (it will have had a two digit number before that) which was speeded up to be the X20. At dereg, it was split with it becoming the 6 between Bishop and Durham, with the runs to Newcastle being made into short workings on the 723. It did have a spell extended to Shildon as the 5/6 but is now extended via West Auckland to Cockfield et al to replace the former 82 main route.

Interesting, the GoNorthEast X20 has its history as the old OK 700 route that later was numbered the 724 and, of course, that has now been extended to West Auckland - another nibble at prime Arriva territory. The Arriva response has been.....?

The X66/67 have a history as well. Just before dereg, United introduced two fast express routes from Bishop via Darlington to Middlesbrough (X14) and Middlesbrough to Redcar (X73) using ex London Leopards. The X73 was soon extended to Saltburn. That was it for 10 years (before Arriva) until someone decided to join them together as the X14. Arriva then allocated new Plaxton Primas in 1999, still running throughout but with the old X73 section renumbered as X4 for tacho/EU reasons. Then the big changes where the Bishop to Darlington section was dropped (though a version later returned as the X1 but it's markedly different), the Middlesbrough to Saltburn was integrated into a new X3/X4, and the middle bit was routed via Stockton as the X66 to replace the stopping service 98/99 which was withdrawn completely, leaving a number of villages with a minimal service.

As I say, if the X66/67 were operated by Go North East, they would be part of the X Lines network and would have had regular new fleet and be nurtured and developed. Instead, Arriva have a load of refurbished Max standard stuff that often is replaced by other stuff as 16 year old Omnicities are being flogged up and down the A66.
It seems a strange town for buses - the town centre is at the far end of the town and the bus station is at the far end of the "centre" - and the big retail park expansion towards West Auckland must have hit demand for what's left of the town centre
When Bishop bus station was built, it replaced the market place as the main terminus and it was the bustling heart of the town with the Newgate Centre and a big (for the time) Fine Fare supermarket, plus the big shops on Newgate Street. The big retail developments at St Helens Auckland have ripped the heart from the town
Oddly the website seems to have lost pretty much all of the "local" maps (other than the Whitley Bay and Consett ones)
You're right. It's one of the main blind spots of Go North East. The route maps are good but local network maps would certainly be welcome as would a network map (though X Lines does have one)
the way that Stagecoach are implementing it seems really haphazard - inconsistent in application, fairly random in terms of which vehicles got it first - and there seems to be no "hype" for flagship buses or flagship routes (compared to the way that liveries like the original "Barbie" were used to represent a step change in quality, or "Max" / "Sapphire" promise something better than the average Arriva vehicle).
I can't say if I'm so bothered by some of the variations (black light clusters or not?). However, not painting the roof so you see the old livery looks awful. However, you're right on the lack of wow factor from Stagecoach and even now, we are seeing some confusion as to what gets the yellow/gold livery with new, hi spec vehicles in Gloucester getting it for a local service (that was Gold) but other routes like Witney getting standard. They have lost some focus IMHO.
I've not seen much of Arriva in the last couple of years but your comments seem bang on the nose - I don't know whether the fault lies with DB (for not encouraging any kind of strategy, given the "for sale" signs) or management, but it feels a very underwhelming business

I think they're hamstrung by DB (lack of money, lack of strategy, not knowing what's happening) and perhaps it's compounded in North East by Nigel Featham leaving and Nick Knox (who I didn't really rate) retiring. It would seem lacklustre enough but when you see what Go North East are doing, they look even more moribund.

It does make me chuckle when people take pot shots at TrentBarton, Transdev or GNE/Go South Coast - they're not always perfect or "amazing" but compared to some of the duff operators out there, they are streets ahead.
 

tbtc

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Bishop to Durham was historically the United/Northern joint route 724 from there and running to Newcastle via Chester le Street (it will have had a two digit number before that) which was speeded up to be the X20. At dereg, it was split with it becoming the 6 between Bishop and Durham, with the runs to Newcastle being made into short workings on the 723. It did have a spell extended to Shildon as the 5/6 but is now extended via West Auckland to Cockfield et al to replace the former 82 main route

Interesting, the GoNorthEast X20 has its history as the old OK 700 route that later was numbered the 724 and, of course, that has now been extended to West Auckland - another nibble at prime Arriva territory. The Arriva response has been.....?

Cheers - I remember the 724 when it was an hourly service that avoided central Durham (which is something that could make for an interesting thread on here - Services That Ran Near Town/City Centres Without Actually Diverting To Serve Them) - it felt like a very minor time saving via Neville's Cross rather than diverting into central Durham (to then also provide a Bishop Auckland - Durham service and a Durham - Newcastle service), but maybe back then there was more of a desire not to tread on Arriva's toes - whereas now GNE have parked their tanks on a lot of traditional United/ Arriva territory with very little comeback

As my first forays into that corner of County Durham were only around twenty years ago, I thought I remembered Shildon getting some through services from Durham but didn't know if there had at one time been a Durham - Bishop - Shildon - Darlington service - thanks for clearing this up

The GNE offering on the Durham - Bishop - West Auckland corridor seems streets ahead of the raggle taggle Arriva offering btw! But Arriva don't seem to be interested

The X66/67 have a history as well. Just before dereg, United introduced two fast express routes from Bishop via Darlington to Middlesbrough (X14) and Middlesbrough to Redcar (X73) using ex London Leopards. The X73 was soon extended to Saltburn. That was it for 10 years (before Arriva) until someone decided to join them together as the X14. Arriva then allocated new Plaxton Primas in 1999, still running throughout but with the old X73 section renumbered as X4 for tacho/EU reasons. Then the big changes where the Bishop to Darlington section was dropped (though a version later returned as the X1 but it's markedly different)

Ah, thanks - it was the Prima era that I first remember - seems a good service at that time, especially when competing with the bi-hourly Arriva Trains Northern 142s at the western end of the route

What's the difference between the new X1 and old X14 between Bishop and Darlington? (I know that the X1 diverts via a bit of the retail park on the edges of Bishop, but have never got my head round the road network in Shildon)

As I say, if the X66/67 were operated by Go North East, they would be part of the X Lines network and would have had regular new fleet and be nurtured and developed. Instead, Arriva have a load of refurbished Max standard stuff that often is replaced by other stuff as 16 year old Omnicities are being flogged up and down the A66

Agreed - comparing and contrasting the two operators... there's no competition!

When Bishop bus station was built, it replaced the market place as the main terminus and it was the bustling heart of the town with the Newgate Centre and a big (for the time) Fine Fare supermarket, plus the big shops on Newgate Street. The big retail developments at St Helens Auckland have ripped the heart from the town

I remember ASDA in the Newgate Centre, when the place seemed a lot more prosperous... but the plight of the town seems summed up by the town centre M&S being replaced by a Poundworld - it's common to a few places in the UK (here in Sheffield the flagship House Of Fraser became a TJ Hughes before being split between Sports Direct/ Poundland/ charity shop)

You're right. It's one of the main blind spots of Go North East. The route maps are good but local network maps would certainly be welcome as would a network map (though X Lines does have one)

I hadn't spotted the X Lines map on the site, but thankfully google has found it for me - which means I've now noticed that some X30 extend beyond Stanley to Consett - is this a relatively new thing?

I can't say if I'm so bothered by some of the variations (black light clusters or not?). However, not painting the roof so you see the old livery looks awful. However, you're right on the lack of wow factor from Stagecoach and even now, we are seeing some confusion as to what gets the yellow/gold livery with new, hi spec vehicles in Gloucester getting it for a local service (that was Gold) but other routes like Witney getting standard. They have lost some focus IMHO

I think I find it more frustrating as this is the kind of thing that Stagecoach used to be a lot better at (e.g. they kept the "beachball" livery to younger vehicles initially, so that they didn't end up in a situation where a twenty year old school bus was being painted in the modern livery ahead of five year old vehicles)

It does make me chuckle when people take pot shots at TrentBarton, Transdev or GNE/Go South Coast - they're not always perfect or "amazing" but compared to some of the duff operators out there, they are streets ahead.

I think there's something in the enthusiast psyche that relishes tearing into any bus company that dares promote their services and boast to members of the public (oh, you think you're "amazing"/ "great"/ "transforming travel", do you?) - we'd rather that vehicles were painted in sombre maroon/ navy/ bottle green liveries like the were in the days when people had to travel by bus because car ownership was so low, and bus companies didn't have to compete

Hence the lines of Transdev getting a lot of ire (for daring to be positive) and moribund operators like Arriva avoiding criticism (because they seem content to stagnate, rather than promote themselves)
 

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Cheers - I remember the 724 when it was an hourly service that avoided central Durham (which is something that could make for an interesting thread on here - Services That Ran Near Town/City Centres Without Actually Diverting To Serve Them) - it felt like a very minor time saving via Neville's Cross rather than diverting into central Durham (to then also provide a Bishop Auckland - Durham service and a Durham - Newcastle service), but maybe back then there was more of a desire not to tread on Arriva's toes - whereas now GNE have parked their tanks on a lot of traditional United/ Arriva territory with very little comeback
That dated back to the pre-dereg days. The OK license (for what was the 700 in later days but never carried the number) was direct via Nevilles Cross as United had the monopoly for the Bishop to Durham route.I think the change came about the same time as the sale of Bishop operations to Arriva; something that Peter Huntley walked into and stated that he wished he could've got out of. However, they did get to keep the Bishop to Newcastle route.

Arriva could've responded with an upping of the service....but they haven't. Tells you all you need to know.
The GNE offering on the Durham - Bishop - West Auckland corridor seems streets ahead of the raggle taggle Arriva offering btw! But Arriva don't seem to be interested
There was a time when Arriva seemed like it had got its act together with new Pulsars on there, and then upgrading it to Sapphire, whilst Go North East were used some rather peachy ex London kit on there.
What's the difference between the new X1 and old X14 between Bishop and Darlington? (I know that the X1 diverts via a bit of the retail park on the edges of Bishop, but have never got my head round the road network in Shildon)
I'll try to get this right....

  • The old 1 used to run via South Church and then up Busty Bank past the Hippodrome (where the new houses are just past the Grey Horse) and up Byerley Road and past what were the wagon works. It didn't touch Shildon town centre
  • The old X14 ran non stop from Cabin Gate to Shildon Town Centre (usually via Busty Bank) and then round by Jubilee Estate and then onto the main road and non stop to Cockerton
  • The current 1 now goes via South Church, Busty Bank and then via the Town Centre and Jubilee Estate before heading out as per the traditional route via Redworth, Heighington etc
  • The current X1 goes via Cabin Gate but then out to St Helens Auckland and the retail parks, then up the Shildon bypass but then in along West Auckland Road before it then turns and follows the old 1 route up Byerley Road and missing out Shildon town centre and then running direct to Darlington
As an aside, the timing point is still called the Hippodrome despite the fact that it was demolished in 1994.
I think there's something in the enthusiast psyche that relishes tearing into any bus company that dares promote their services and boast to members of the public (oh, you think you're "amazing"/ "great"/ "transforming travel", do you?) - we'd rather that vehicles were painted in sombre maroon/ navy/ bottle green liveries like the were in the days when people had to travel by bus because car ownership was so low, and bus companies didn't have to compete

Hence the lines of Transdev getting a lot of ire (for daring to be positive) and moribund operators like Arriva avoiding criticism (because they seem content to stagnate, rather than promote themselves)
A lot of truth in what you say
 

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If anyones interested, Geoff Marshalls latest youtube feature is 'Zero Emission Buses Newcastle' the 'Voltra' buses plus interviews at Riverhead depot including Martijn Gilbert.

 
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TheGrandWazoo

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If anyones interested, Geoff Marshalls latest youtube feature is 'Zero Emission Buses Newcastle' the 'Voltra' buses plus interviews at Riverhead depot including Martijn Gilbert.
Google 'Geoff Marshall' on youtube.
Thought Geoff was more a rail infrastructure person so not a regular foray into buses. He's a very good presenter though (and he's a very keen parkrunner so all good)

Interesting to know that they have a further 9 due. The vehicle featured is the very one I travelled on last Wednesday. I did use the wireless charging and, as I said, the build quality was markedly better than the Harrogate 7900e that I also tried recently. The Yutongs aren't the best looking machines though.

Not so certain that Go North East is based in Newcastle though.... (cough, Bensham, Riverside). However, good engaging content and Martijn comes across well as always. Worth a watch though
 

Surreyman

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Thought Geoff was more a rail infrastructure person so not a regular foray into buses. He's a very good presenter though (and he's a very keen parkrunner so all good)

Interesting to know that they have a further 9 due. The vehicle featured is the very one I travelled on last Wednesday. I did use the wireless charging and, as I said, the build quality was markedly better than the Harrogate 7900e that I also tried recently. The Yutongs aren't the best looking machines though.

Not so certain that Go North East is based in Newcastle though.... (cough, Bensham, Riverside). However, good engaging content and Martijn comes across well as always. Worth a watch though
I wonder if Go-Ahead are going to fund these 100% i.e without government grant, seems unlikely?
Have picked up that All-Electric buses cost @ £450,000 + or - versus @250,000 for a Euro 6 diesel.
I have been keeping tabs on the Governments 'zero emission buses' roll out, we know that they are looking ideally for @ 3 sizeable areas to convert, with Govt' paying 75% of difference in price to Diesel.
Tyneside would be the right size, no doubt 'Stagey' & Go-Ahead would be happy to fund the 25% difference, not sure that Arriva are in 'spend' mode though.
 

MotCO

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Having had a few days seeing the family in the North, I had a second opportunity to get out and explore. I'm an exiled Northerner who spent much of the late 80s and 90s trawling all over the North East and Yorkshire before and after deregulation using Explorer North East tickets**. Having moved away, it's now a rare treat to go out and not something I'd done for a while given personal commitments and then Covid restrictions. So in glorious sunshine and with some anticipation as to what the local operators (esp Go North East are up to). Hopefully, you find this interesting, and not too full of self-indulgent wiffle and I'd welcome any feedback as to whether my experiences were typical etc.

The weather was set fair, and so I made my way to Faverdale in Darlington, not far from the Arriva depot. My first bus of the day was to be the historic service 1 to Bishop Auckland which had featured on my first ever Explorer trip just over 35 years ago. Rather than a knackered United Leyland National, it was to be an Arriva Sapphire specification Wright Streetlite that duly arrived and off we went. 1614 was one of the last new vehicles delivered to Arriva North East in early 2018 as investment has stalled in what was a fairly modern fleet. This example had the wifi, USB charging etc that we'd expect though. Now, the route interworks with the X1 and the 5/5A (I think) and 1614 was on home turf though there seemed to be a variety of other vehicles in use - vehicle allocations in Darlington seem to be "fluid" if I'm charitable. The Streetlite was also emblematic of the quality issues that Wright had - it was bad even for a Streetlite, as we clattered our way towards Bishop Auckland. The route in Shildon still surprises me....I'm still stuck in the 90s!! We picked up a few people but deposited most before reaching Bishop bus station.

Arriving there, the place was almost deserted with people and buses. It reflects, in part, how services have declined after the purchase of the former OK operations by Arriva and then cuts that preceded and followed the closure of Bishop depot. However, the bus station remains resolutely familiar and bleak; whilst the travel kiosk is a cafe, the public toilets are still unremittingly grim! I waited for my next bus and it was the X1 to Tow Law - this was a decker surprisingly (branded for the Durham to Darlington route) and in the original Sapphire scheme. To be honest, it wasn't bad internally though the aspirational Sapphire sparkling vinyls (courtesy of Best Impressions) seemed to be out of kilter with the slightly down at heel presentation. However, the ride was brilliant. After traversing Newton Cap, we climbed and climbed through Crook. I had the top deck to myself as we continued our ascent, with views across the Wear Valley and the various former pit villages scattered beneath me. On a cloudless day, it was superb and as we headed to Sunniside, the whole vista of County Durham and North Pennines opened out. Oddly, I've never done the route past Crook to Tow Law but what a day to break my duck. For the uninitiated, Tow Law is a large moor top village that is pretty bleak at times, and the terminus at Inkerman is a layby on the far edge of the village. If you can get the weather, it's a cracking run. The problem is that there aren't too many other journey options. However, the Mon-Fri 764 service from Wolsingham to Consett runs between the schools and so I joined the dozen pensioners on a small Solo operated by Weardale. Weardale used to accept/issue Explorers but exited the scheme a number of years ago which is a shame as they and Scarlet Band have rushed in to fill the void caused by Arriva's retrenchment. The single to Consett was a mere £1.80 which is a bargain.

I arrived at Consett bus station and the usual array of time served deckers laying over between schools was more interesting with a range of East Yorkshire and Lothian liveried examples in attendance. I had heard that the bus station might be redeveloped as part of a town centre regeneration though that might be a tricky ask seeing as how much out of town development has been permitted. It was a quick change and onto my first X-Lines route, the rebranding and respecifying of various routes that are seen as quick links that generally seek to link places without rail services, and employing higher specification vehicles, in partnership with Best Impressions. My first one was the X45 and a Wright Streetdeck about a year old. Streetdecks get a bad rap but this was ok. As with all my GNE services, timetables were available onboard and I went upstairs and enjoyed the view from my table seat as we headed through Ebchester. However, I was bailing early at Bank Top allowing me a leisurely stroll down the hill to Blackhill Mill; it's odd that there are frequent routes to there and Bank Top but few routes traverse the short distance between the two. Even better, there's a tremendous bakery there with all manner of tasty treats. I got a latte and cake to go and went round the corner to catch my next bus.

This was the 10A, part of the Tyne Valley 10 network, worked by a B9TL that I'd last encountered working on the X10 to Middlesbrough! Now mention was made early on this thread about complaints about these vehicles on the TV10. To be honest, I didn't have an issue. These are 9 years old but are pretty well kept inside and out. Certainly, a mid life refurb might be appropriate but it was a decent machine as we weaved through Chopwell (once known as Little Russia on account of local communist support that saw Marx and Lenin Terraces built). We then went through High Spen where the bus stand is adjacent to where the bus depot used to be. We then weaved around, as shown on the excellent leaflet and map contained therein . However, we were losing time and I suddenly realised that my next connection (a 6 min gap at Crawcrook) was in peril. And so it came to pass that I missed my 686 to Ovington, and a replan was needed. More worrying, the next scheduled 10 to Corbridge wasn't tracking!!

It thankfully did arrive in the form of a Citaro on the otherwise DD route. I'm not a great fan of these; the seating layout reflects its origins as a multi door bus and the built quality can be a bit patchy as on this one. Still, we sped through to Corbridge. I could've continued onto Hexham but I'd been bouncing from bus to bus so thought I'd have a more civilised break and grab a sandwich to eat in the sun whilst I worked out my revised itinerary. Now, this is something.... Stagecoach's presence on the 685 appears to have disappeared according to BusTimes. Assume that they are still actually running but that the feed has somehow disappeared?? The next machine though was another new X-Lines machine with one of the X84/X85 e400mmcs. I got on and grabbed the timetable leaflet - publicity on GNE is excellent. In fact, the map in the leaflet was arguably better than that on the interior cove panels (so why not use that). Moreover, the seat was possibly the most comfortable I've ever had on a bus. Apart from the odd bodywork creak, it was a superb and refined trip onto the A69 before diving into Heddon. I missed out on Transdev's SkyClass the other day but these are some of nicest machines I've experienced. It was interesting to compare with the newish Stagecoach examples as we travelled along West Road and see how dull the promotion is despite eLeather seats on city routes. I really don't know what Stagecoach are doing with their promotion and approach and that awful livery though Busways have always been very conservative. Another thing was the repainting of a number of e300s but not bothering with the roof as "no-one can see it" except, of course, you can. So you have a patch of old livery clearly on view from the top deck of a decker.... It smacks of cheap and nasty cost cutting.

I knew that it would be a tight connection but I reckoned I'd probably miss it (and I was right) as the introduction of the longer ex Oxford coaches has seen the X9/X10 moved from Eldon Square to Newgate Street. Instead, I had a bit of a stroll and then literally stumbled upon the new Voltra electric Yutongs on Market Street. Knowing I could get the X10 from Gateshead, I caught a Voltra on the 53. Now, they have the exterior styling of a breeze block but internally they were much nicer. The wireless charging was used to bolster the battery, and whilst it's only a short journey of about 8 minutes, I was much more impressed with these machines that the Harrogate 7900e types. Barely a rattle (I know they're nearly new) and just felt much more robust machines. I got off at Gateshead Metro and headed to the coach bay for the X10, only to find that there was no Interdeck but one of the spare, neutral branded X Lines Streetdecks. Bit disappointing but still a nice run along the A19. Again, the X10 is a route I've used so many times over the years and aside from the mental turbo charged MCW Metrobuses, these are probably some of the best vehicles to have operated it though a delay departure from Gateshead was never overcome. It was certainly a lot smarter than the Max spec Arriva Pulsar that passed through on the X12 - replacement panels, poor colour matching, missing vinyls - it looked a state for 9 years old. Knowing I had time to spare, I dived off at Norton Green and waited for the next Stagecoach machine to maximise my Explorer functionality. The bus that arrived was 22070 working the 35 which I suspect is a route where the older stuff is dumped. Noticing the internal vinyls, I wondered if this was an ex Newcastle machine and yes, that did explain some of the "out of context" adverts. Moreover, the ageing MAN was, by far, the worst bus I had all day. It rattled like hell on hitting any bump in the road, and the raft of notices internally was bewildering. Certainly no creating desire there!

However, it was only 10 mins and then a quick leap onto the X66/67 to Darlington. Now this route highlights the gulf, nay chasm, between Go North East and Arriva. This would be an X Lines route in the GNE lexicon, with modern smart vehicles, good interior and external marketing, and all the bells and whistles to generate passenger growth. In Arriva world, it is a Max route and should be operated by 2005 Scania Omnicities (and a couple of newer Pulsars) albeit refurbished. On the X66/X67, a few of these were working alongside a Darlington gas bus, a Streetlite and a Pulsar but my steed was Solo 2836. New in 2008, it has the old Arriva moquette having not been refurbished. It had Best Impressions designed ads to promote the Max and Sapphire routes but looking a bit dowdy in keeping with this machine that bore the Frequenta fleetname for Darlington locals. In addition, the X67 now encompasses much of Hartburn and is so routed as an express in Darlington via some industrial areas that will generate little traffic, which is odd in itself when operating as per the X66 round Whinbush in Darlington seems more sensible? 2836 is a decent enough machine but that on a primary route like that... a route that could and should be nurtured and is instead reduced to having some ageing refurbs that are then replaced as they fail with whatever else is in the depot. It might be Covid related but the customer numbers of 4 on my journey is worryingly low. The Darlington depot, even in United times, was known as being worse for presentation and standards. However, it demonstrated everything that has bugged me about Arriva in recent years. Route allocations are haphazard and everything looks so jaded - it feels like life stopped about 5 years ago with Arriva North East and I can see the complacency that led to GNE and Peter Huntley exploiting the torpor being repeated. Naturally, it felt appropriate to get the X1 back from Darlington town centre to Faverdale on a 7 branded decker again.

I know that my observations are coloured or influenced by my own sensitivities. I appreciate that I am looking out for "these things". GNE seems to have a handle on service delivery and is being innovative in the main. That said, I think that the unleashing of Best Impressions is also leading to a "not invented here" approach and they are losing some distinctive brands in favour of things that are more anodyne. In the round, they seem to be doing most things right and Martijn Gilbert is a born marketeer but it feels like there's the operational backbone to meet the hype (in the main). I was genuinely stunned by how poor Arriva in Darlington has got; I really only saw fleeting glimpses of Arriva vehicles in Stockton (again, not a great depot historically) whilst not seeing those depots who are usually better like Durham and Blyth. However, as I say, it feels like a business that is suspended in aspic from c.2016 - little or no investment, the Sapphire and Max initiatives now nothing more than remnants of a more optimistic and vibrant age, and treading water as the fleet gets increasing aged with Max routes (the second string but important inter-urban services) continue to be operated by vehicles that date from the mid-2000s.

** Having checked my records from June 1986, another early Explorer trip involved a trip from Darlington via Newcastle (on an RELH) and then into the Tyne Valley on the 685 and 602 (now 10) before heading back to Newcastle to catch the X10 (United DP Olympian) to Teesside and then returning back to Darlington on a Mk2 National.... a strange echo and quite coincidental :D

Interesting report, particularly the relative attitudes of GNE and Ariva. Did you find GNE more expensive than Arriva - this has been mentined in the past - so maybe you are paying for the extra quality, and it sounds as though it may be worth it.
 

northern506

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Interesting report, particularly the relative attitudes of GNE and Ariva. Did you find GNE more expensive than Arriva - this has been mentined in the past - so maybe you are paying for the extra quality, and it sounds as though it may be worth it.

I don't find Go North East more expensive in general. An all zones day ticket on Go North East is £7, whereas it is £8.50 on Arriva. Although, in fairness the Arriva one does cover a larger area.

In terms of more local areas where both Arriva and Go North East operate, I've done a quick comparison.

North Tyneside:
Arriva £4.70 day, £18.60 week
Go North East £4 day, £14 week

East Durham and Sunderland:
Arriva £5 day, £23 week
Go North East £5.30 day, £23 week (or £20 on app) (red zone)

Durham City:
Arriva £4 day, £14.50 week
Go North East £4 day, £15 week

So generally they seem pretty similar, although I'm not too sure how they compare on single fares.
 

NorthOxonian

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I don't find Go North East more expensive in general. An all zones day ticket on Go North East is £7, whereas it is £8.50 on Arriva. Although, in fairness the Arriva one does cover a larger area.

In terms of more local areas where both Arriva and Go North East operate, I've done a quick comparison.

North Tyneside:
Arriva £4.70 day, £18.60 week
Go North East £4 day, £14 week

East Durham and Sunderland:
Arriva £5 day, £23 week
Go North East £5.30 day, £23 week (or £20 on app) (red zone)

Durham City:
Arriva £4 day, £14.50 week
Go North East £4 day, £15 week

So generally they seem pretty similar, although I'm not too sure how they compare on single fares.
For North Tyneside, Arriva also offer a Coastliner ticket at £3.90 per day (or £13.50 per week) - presumably trying to compete with Go North East heavily on the very busy Coast Road corridor.
 

gimmea50anyday

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Arriva are more expensive than Go Ahead. You only have to look at the difference in fares on routes for example Arrivas 6 and GoNEs X21 between Durham and Bishop Auckland. GoNE is as much as £1 cheaper from Spennymoor to Durham and the buses always look smarter and cleaner compared to Arrivas fleet. X46 Crook to Durham where Arriva is the only operator the fares seem unreasonably high in comparison. Historically fares were matched between The Eden, United and OK Travel and even with Gardiners very popular round spennymoor service, so you paid the same amount regardless of operator but that seems to have fallen by the wayside over the years as has co-operative ticketing over what were historically shared routes. same example again Bishop Auckland to Durham OK/GoNE 724 when Arriva withdrew the evening 6 the 724 was diverted and started running in to Durham (vice A167 missing Durham) via South Road and accepted Arriva tickets for a few years until Arriva reintroduced the evening journeys and timed them to run just 10 minutes in front. GoNE then diverted the route back via nevilles cross in to Durham vice New Inn/South Road
 

tbtc

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A few questions about GNE and other routes around Newcastle...

Is Q3 to Great Park a tendered service (for SAGE etc)? I'm just asking as it looks firmly in Arriva territory (other than the brief period when GNE were running expresses to Cramlington etc) - seems an oddity on the map

But then, the Arriva 55 looks like a Newcastle "city" service, but is part of the old United rather than part of the old Busways - was this a commercial attack? Or is it that Forest Hall is in North Tyneside (i.e. old United territory) whilst places like Killingworth are within the city of Newcastle (i.e. Busways)?

Lastly, from memory of collecting whatever Northumbria leaflets I could at Haymarket etc thirty years ago, I've a memory of a service 9 that was wholly inside Newcastle - was this a commercial route to attack Busways? (it's going back a while, but you know what it's like when you have a memory of a leaflet but didn't have a city wide map to understand how it slotted in to the rest of the networks...)
 

TheGrandWazoo

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A few questions about GNE and other routes around Newcastle...

Is Q3 to Great Park a tendered service (for SAGE etc)? I'm just asking as it looks firmly in Arriva territory (other than the brief period when GNE were running expresses to Cramlington etc) - seems an oddity on the map

But then, the Arriva 55 looks like a Newcastle "city" service, but is part of the old United rather than part of the old Busways - was this a commercial attack? Or is it that Forest Hall is in North Tyneside (i.e. old United territory) whilst places like Killingworth are within the city of Newcastle (i.e. Busways)?

Lastly, from memory of collecting whatever Northumbria leaflets I could at Haymarket etc thirty years ago, I've a memory of a service 9 that was wholly inside Newcastle - was this a commercial route to attack Busways? (it's going back a while, but you know what it's like when you have a memory of a leaflet but didn't have a city wide map to understand how it slotted in to the rest of the networks...)
IIRC....

The Q3 has its origins as the X40 Great Park and Ride. This was originally operated by Arriva using a pair of MPDs in a dedicated livery who simply took the money and nothing more until 2013. They were then surprised to lose the contract to Go North East who employed some Wright Solar Fusion artics released from the MetroCentre shuttle in Gateshead, giving the route a much higher profile. I think it was this that has since been integrated into the Q3 and suspect there is still some contribution from Great Park.

The 55 has its origins in the old M55 which was a former Northumbria route, using early Metroriders. I think it had it roots as a variation of the old 355/356 that United/Northumbria/Arriva had and continued to operate with conventional vehicles, so it's always been home territory since the 1980s (though it might have had some differences before the Metro was built and routes swapped about).

The 9/9A were deregistered at dereg by TWPTE/Busways and were won on tender by Northumbria - think they ran from Central Station via Spital Tongues up to Kenton Bar Estate. Originally using VRs or ex Manc Fleetlines, I think the first Optare Metroriders NMS bought were also on it regularly, and I think they took it on commercially. @Geordie driver will doubtless remember it.
 

jkkne

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Messages
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Arriva are more expensive than Go Ahead. You only have to look at the difference in fares on routes for example Arrivas 6 and GoNEs X21 between Durham and Bishop Auckland. GoNE is as much as £1 cheaper from Spennymoor to Durham and the buses always look smarter and cleaner compared to Arrivas fleet. X46 Crook to Durham where Arriva is the only operator the fares seem unreasonably high in comparison. Historically fares were matched between The Eden, United and OK Travel and even with Gardiners very popular round spennymoor service, so you paid the same amount regardless of operator but that seems to have fallen by the wayside over the years as has co-operative ticketing over what were historically shared routes. same example again Bishop Auckland to Durham OK/GoNE 724 when Arriva withdrew the evening 6 the 724 was diverted and started running in to Durham (vice A167 missing Durham) via South Road and accepted Arriva tickets for a few years until Arriva reintroduced the evening journeys and timed them to run just 10 minutes in front. GoNE then diverted the route back via nevilles cross in to Durham vice New Inn/South Road

In Durham perhaps but in Tyne and Wear, Arriva come out cheaper from my experience. The X12 is around a £1 cheaper than the 21 from Birtley into Newcastle as well as being much faster! (pre pandemic)

Similarly the Coast Rd routes, I’ve always found Arriva to be considerably cheaper, especially for single tickets.
There’s obviously more bells and whistles with the GNE fleet but all I’m fussed about is a seat, some wheels and getting me where I need to
 
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IIRC....

The Q3 has its origins as the X40 Great Park and Ride. This was originally operated by Arriva using a pair of MPDs in a dedicated livery who simply took the money and nothing more until 2013. They were then surprised to lose the contract to Go North East who employed some Wright Solar Fusion artics released from the MetroCentre shuttle in Gateshead, giving the route a much higher profile. I think it was this that has since been integrated into the Q3 and suspect there is still some contribution from Great Park.

The 55 has its origins in the old M55 which was a former Northumbria route, using early Metroriders. I think it had it roots as a variation of the old 355/356 that United/Northumbria/Arriva had and continued to operate with conventional vehicles, so it's always been home territory since the 1980s (though it might have had some differences before the Metro was built and routes swapped about).

The 9/9A were deregistered at dereg by TWPTE/Busways and were won on tender by Northumbria - think they ran from Central Station via Spital Tongues up to Kenton Bar Estate. Originally using VRs or ex Manc Fleetlines, I think the first Optare Metroriders NMS bought were also on it regularly, and I think they took it on commercially. @Geordie driver will doubtless remember it.
Indeed. Re the M55 and the 355, these were variations of routes we had pre deregulation at Jesmond.

The 9/9A was Jesmonds run as a secured service, these were the shifts where we we expected to drive right to the limit of the driving hours, l loathed them. The last few out of Central on a weekend were very hairy, I recall some lads getting on the bus with an entire tree they had dug up, I said nowt. Times were stupidity tight, 5 minutes from central to the Haymarket, then all the " fun" of driving through Cowgate. Edit, now that I think about it, after a couple of years they ran it commercially, it was always very busy and Busways didn't seem to mind us stepping on their toes, even when they became stagecoach. All very cosy.
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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In Durham perhaps but in Tyne and Wear, Arriva come out cheaper from my experience. The X12 is around a £1 cheaper than the 21 from Birtley into Newcastle as well as being much faster! (pre pandemic)
Isn't this illustrative of the gambit? Arriva has a quicker and cheaper service from Durham to Newcastle though it has an inferior frequency. Similarly, Go NE has the quicker and cheaper Bishop to Durham service. However, I'd argue that the X21 is having a greater impact on the Arriva services than the X12 is having on Go NE.

I know it's often said that people aren't bothered by marketing and bells/whistles but it does influence people. Go North East are engaged in a substantial level of investment in vehicles and marketing. Arriva just aren't and hence you have major routes being operated by ageing fleet, zero marketing, zero innovation. Same with the hoary old chestnut of route branding. It's fair enough having the odd non-route branded machine out and a bus is better than no bus but Arriva NE is terrible for it. Today's snapshot:

  • Max X12 - 7/10 vehicles are branded with a couple of Sapphire and a Stockton Frequenta on there
  • Max 1 (which interworks with the X1 and 5/5A) has a Sapphire, two X75 Max vehicles, two Frequenta Solos
  • Max X66/67 - of 7 vehicles, there are two Frequenta Solos, two Pulsars, one in old colours and one in original pre2011 Arriva, an eco Gas bus, a Sapphire and one actually branded for the service
Contrast that to a GNE service and there's no comparison.

In 2014/5, I really thought the pendulum had swung with a conservative Kevin Carr at GNE, and Nigel Featham at Arriva NE and Yorkshire ensuring that there was continuing investment (on top of the fairly substantial spend in 2008-2013 - even now, the fleet isn't that bad) but also the refurbs and introduction of Sapphire and Max. Now it seems Arriva is in a torpor, a zero profile MD, and declining quality standards. Quite the difference from GNE.



FWIW, I tracked down the Arriva X12 (not my photo) https://www.flickr.com/photos/18406...list-2ksGM1Y-2kZ8wQ3-2kYPiuM-2kTqjuM-2kYT8eW/ that I saw at Gateshead Metro and you can see the replacement panels etc. Not exactly "creating desire" as a certain design house would say!
 

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