Government discusses campaign to encourage people to return to public transport

[kristiang85]

Seconded. The relative quietness of services, and on board space, has more than compensated for the mask requirement in my book.

Thirded. I use bandana masks which is a lot more comfortable (I hate having straps on my ears), so it doesn't bother me too much. And not once in the past year have i been told I'm wearing "the wrong type of mask".

I always walk to the back of the train, and quite often I have the carriage to myself. So I've had no problem using public transport. Then again, I've not been on a train since the office was closed in December.

I know this isn't sustainable though.

 

[Bantamzen]

I wear a mask from Leeds to Manchester every day and return and I really don't see what the fuss is about tbh. I know it's personal preference but it is definitely not enough of a nuisance to stop me catching a train.

Don't get me wrong I don't like it... But don't dislike it enough for it to remotely affect my life.

On your next journey, take a look at the loadings of the train. If its not at least reasonably busy ask yourself how long it will be until either fares rise massively, or services cut massively in order to stop losing money. That's what the fuss is about, people are using trains less in part because masks are uncomfortable & give the impression to many people that trains are an unsafe environment.

 

[Ianno87]

Indeed, and I'm hoping that the majority of my fellow passengers will return un the near future.

In the meantime, (where guidance allows) I'm happy to make the most of comfortably quiet trains.

I know this isn't sustainable though.

And as much as quiet trains were nice, it was nice to see something starting to get closer to normal levels of usage return in late summer (And October half-term week), before lockdowns scuppered things again.

 

[yorksrob]

It's difficult to know what proportion of absentee passengers are being driven away by:

• Masks
• Fear of being fined/banged up by the non-essential travel police
• Fear that all public transport is a petri dish of germs
• Original reason for travelling having been suspended/removed.

 

[Ianno87]

That's what the fuss is about, people are using trains less in part because masks are uncomfortable & give the impression to many people that trains are an unsafe environment.

In part, yes. But I'm not convinced that big a part compared to other factors as @yorksrob outlines above.

If anything, some passengers will be more inclined to travel at present due to masks making them feel safer whilst Covid is still in circulation and the vaccine program is ongoing.

 

[Bantamzen]

Well, yes.

But I'm not convinced that masks are a particularly big reason for lack of rail demand outside of lockdown periods (opinions on this forum aside); it's more the lack of reasons to travel (e.g. no theatres, sports, indoor socialising, etc.), and the perception of cars being "safer" (oxymoron). I don't think that "I don't want to travel by train simply because I have to wear a mask" is as common an opinion as some on here would think.

People saying that "masks make travel unpleasant" are missing the fact that the lack of demand has made travel temporarily more pleasant in some respects too. And personally, I've consistently felt more comfortable social distancing on a well-cleaned train, than packing into a shopping centre.

I think you'd be surprised, masks give the impression of trains not being safe.

 

[yorksrob]

And as much as quiet trains were nice, it was nice to see something starting to get closer to normal levels of usage return in late summer (And October half-term week), before lockdowns scuppered things again.

Indeed - immediately after lockdown 1, I was getting a carriage to myself on the transpennine core easily.

Nowadays, that wouldn't happen, or i have to go right to the far end of a 5/6 carriage train - which is good, although unlike in pre-covid times, I don't have to worry about getting a table.

 

[Huntergreed]

The problem isn’t the masks, it’s the attitude of the industry towards them. Get on a train in 2019 and you would be welcomed by the operator, often offered catering and hospitality and would be free to relax without feeling threatened.

Get on a train in mid-late 2020 and you’re greeted with an authoritarian attitude towards masks (you MUST wear a mask or you will be fined your removed) - this alone puts anyone with a genuine mask exemption in a horribly difficult position.

You are also not treated with any respect whatsoever, with staff shouting at you like cattle to follow the pointless one way systems, a barrage of announcements basically telling you to sod off unless you need to travel, and authoritarian guards and staff making up their own rules half the time.

The masks themselves aren’t too much of an issue, but the attitude of the industry towards this crisis is a massive deterrent to many potential travellers who would feel far better travelling comfortably in their car.

 

[Ianno87]

I think you'd be surprised, masks give the impression of trains not being safe.

It's a bit of both in reality. For example, look at the Twitterati complaining "I saw X, Y, Z person not wearing a mask on my train", so to some people they do make them feel more safe (I hate "shopping" people on Twitter for things like that, FWIW)

The problem isn’t the masks, it’s the attitude of the industry towards them. Get on a train in 2019 and you would be welcomed by the operator, often offered catering and hospitality and would be free to relax without feeling threatened.

Get on a train in mid-late 2020 and you’re greeted with an authoritarian attitude towards masks (you MUST wear a mask or you will be fined your removed) - this alone puts anyone with a genuine mask exemption in a horribly difficult position.

You are also not treated with any respect whatsoever, with staff shouting at you like cattle to follow the pointless one way systems, a barrage of announcements basically telling you to sod off unless you need to travel, and authoritarian guards and staff making up their own rules half the time.

The masks themselves aren’t too much of an issue, but the attitude of the industry towards this crisis is a massive deterrent to many potential travellers who would feel far better travelling comfortably in their car.

It is 'varied' to say the least. When the messaging is done well and politely, it's not a nuisance at all.

 

[YorkshireBear]

On your next journey, take a look at the loadings of the train. If its not at least reasonably busy ask yourself how long it will be until either fares rise massively, or services cut massively in order to stop losing money. That's what the fuss is about, people are using trains less in part because masks are uncomfortable & give the impression to many people that trains are an unsafe environment.

Your reply doesn't seem to be to my comment? I am acutely aware of how dangerous the lack of passengers is. I don't make any reference to that.

When I say fuss, I mean what's the fuss about masks? They don't make me uncomfortable enough to change my habits but many on here seem to think they are the end of the world.

If masks are showing people trains are unsafe why are all the shops full all the time? Admittedly less so at the moment but they were rammed in December. It seems like people are saying I don't like masks and then using that as a reason trains are empty. The trains are empty because we have been told to avoid public transport for about a year now, and we are doing nothing to encourage them back, plus most places allowing people to work from home.

 

[GodAtum]

Until the face covering rule is withdrawn, it won't be the same sort of experience to look forward to.

I think the article also muddled as it refers to "reduced capacity" and yet you would not run such a campaign until almost all adults have had a vaccination and by then you would not need to reduce capacity; not to mention the fact you'd not run such a campaign if capacity was reduced.

I refuse to take public transport until mask rules are dropped. Also working at home saves me over £2k a year so Im feeling rich atm!

 

[bramling]

Your reply doesn't seem to be to my comment? I am acutely aware of how dangerous the lack of passengers is. I don't make any reference to that.

When I say fuss, I mean what's the fuss about masks? They don't make me uncomfortable enough to change my habits but many on here seem to think they are the end of the world.

If masks are showing people trains are unsafe why are all the shops full all the time? Admittedly less so at the moment but they were rammed in December. It seems like people are saying I don't like masks and then using that as a reason trains are empty. The trains are empty because we have been told to avoid public transport for about a year now, and we are doing nothing to encourage them back, plus most places allowing people to work from home.

I don’t think the comparison between shops and trains works, for the reason that people will tend to be wearing a mask for much longer on a train journey. Also for those who find masks a sign of threat, in a shop they still have the ability to keep away from others, whereas on a train someone could come sit nearby and start coughing.

 

[Ianno87]

I don’t think the comparison between shops and trains works, for the reason that people will tend to be wearing a mask for much longer on a train journey. Also for those who find masks a sign of threat, in a shop they still have the ability to keep away from others, whereas on a train someone could come sit nearby and start coughing.

On a train, you can move to another seat/carriage should it concern you. In fact, it is more possible to do so on a train.

 

[greyman42]

On your next journey, take a look at the loadings of the train. If its not at least reasonably busy ask yourself how long it will be until either fares rise massively, or services cut massively in order to stop losing money. That's what the fuss is about, people are using trains less in part because masks are uncomfortable & give the impression to many people that trains are an unsafe environment.

That pretty much sums it up. I would be happy to get on a train tomorrow without any need for masks.

 

[furgus2]

That pretty much sums it up. I would be happy to get on a train tomorrow without any need for masks.

That goes for me too. I detest wearing one and I find it very disturbing to see others wearing them. I used to use trains a lot for leisure purposes and was happy to spend quite a lot of money in the course of year in so doing. However, until compulsory mask wearing is abolished, I will not use public transport.

 

[Greybeard33]

The problem isn’t the masks, it’s the attitude of the industry towards them. Get on a train in 2019 and you would be welcomed by the operator, often offered catering and hospitality and would be free to relax without feeling threatened.

Get on a train in mid-late 2020 and you’re greeted with an authoritarian attitude towards masks (you MUST wear a mask or you will be fined your removed) - this alone puts anyone with a genuine mask exemption in a horribly difficult position.

You are also not treated with any respect whatsoever, with staff shouting at you like cattle to follow the pointless one way systems, a barrage of announcements basically telling you to sod off unless you need to travel, and authoritarian guards and staff making up their own rules half the time.

The masks themselves aren’t too much of an issue, but the attitude of the industry towards this crisis is a massive deterrent to many potential travellers who would feel far better travelling comfortably in their car.

Railway staff are obliged to enforce health and safety regulations. In 2019 passengers were shouted at if, for example, they stood too close to the edge of the platform, or attempted to prevent the train doors closing. This did not seem to deter many people from using the railway; indeed other passengers may well have been reassured to see the regulations enforced.

Where is the evidence that enforcement of mask wearing and social distancing rules is a significant deterrent to rail travel?

 

[Ianno87]

Where is the evidence that enforcement of mask wearing and social distancing rules is a significant deterrent to rail travel?

And similarly, "Travelling with confidence" with safety measures (politely communicated) perhaps attracts people to rail who'd otherwise be worried it would be "unsafe". Even I'm impressed with the level of visible on-train cleaning, for example.

 

[yorksrob]

Was the "avoid public transport if you can" guidence ever actually repealed after lockdown 1 ?

I seem to recall getting tired of waiting and getting the train anyway. I wonder if most of the population still think that guidance is still in place.

 

[Bikeman78]

Where is the evidence that enforcement of mask wearing and social distancing rules is a significant deterrent to rail travel?

Social distancing is the definition of deterring travel because trains are "full" at 25% of the normal capacity. During the period of fewest restrictions, local trains around London and Liverpool often filled up to 75%. If you cannot keep people apart on trains then all the theatre at stations, e.g. one way systems, becomes a complete waste of time (literally if you have to walk a much longer route!).

Was the "avoid public transport if you can" guidence ever actually repealed after lockdown 1 ?

I seem to recall getting tired of waiting and getting the train anyway. I wonder if most of the population still think that guidance is still in place.

I've lost track. I definitely started using trains in Wales before I was welcome. I recall being told, as I sat in an otherwise empty Pacer, that I shouldn't be there!

 

[yorksrob]

Social distancing is the definition of deterring travel because trains are "full" at 25% of the normal capacity. During the period of fewest restrictions, local trains around London and Liverpool often filled up to 75%. If you cannot keep people apart on trains then all the theatre at stations, e.g. one way systems, becomes a complete waste of time (literally if you have to walk a much longer route!).


I've lost track. I definitely started using trains in Wales before I was welcome. I recall being told, as I sat in an otherwise empty Pacer, that I shouldn't be there!

Yes, I was never approached by anyone, but there was a period when stay at home had ended, yet the messaging on public transport was still very negative.

 

[geoffk]

I made just enough journeys (all fairly local) in 2020 to pay for the last year of my Senior Railcard, so I've renewed it for another three years. The longest would have been Littleborough to Southport and that's long enough wearing a mask, even with with a change at Wigan, during which I was supposed to keep it on. I agree it would be a nice gesture to offer an incentive to railcard holders to get back on the train when restrictions end. Some of my lockdown walks have been arranged with return by bus or train and I've never had any comment from staff about why I was travelling. Now today we have had an announcement that rail fares in England and Wales have increased by 2.6%, RPI plus 1%, just what we need to encourage the passengers back. It's 1.6% in Scotland.

 

[david1212]

It's difficult to know what proportion of absentee passengers are being driven away by:

• Masks
• Fear of being fined/banged up by the non-essential travel police
• Fear that all public transport is a petri dish of germs
• Original reason for travelling having been suspended/removed.

Time for a genuinely independant survery ( i.e. not YouGov ) of a broad spectrum of the population.

This needs to include questions about pre 2020 rail use so the results are weighted to exclude those who only travel very occasionally and as a last resort.

 

[Ianno87]

This needs to include questions about pre 2020 rail use so the results are weighted to exclude those who only travel very occasionally and as a last resort.

Why? "If you only travelled occasionally pre-Covid, are masks/cleanliness measures more or less likely to make you to travel by train more frequently in future?" seems like a reasonable question.

 

[yorksrob]

Time for a genuinely independant survery ( i.d. not YouGov ) of a broad spectrum of the population.

This needs to include questions about pre 2020 rail use so the results are weighted to exclude those who only travel very occasionally and as a last resort.

I should imagine such a survey would be genuinely useful for the industry, as market research as much as anything else.

 

[Ianno87]

I should imagine such a survey would be genuinely useful for the industry, as market research as much as anything else.

With less crowded trains likely for the foreseeable future, rail has got a very real opportunity to appeal to new kinds of passengers.

 

[yorksrob]

With less crowded trains likely for the foreseeable future, rail has got a very real opportunity to appeal to new kinds of passengers.

It really needs to be pushing its leisure credentials IMO.

 

[Jamiescott1]

I recieved a questionnaire from chiltern asking me questions about feeling safe on trains and returning to travel.
I've been travelling continuously through all lockdowns and said I'd feel more comfortable on a train with no masks or social distancing

 

[DB]

I recieved a questionnaire from chiltern asking me questions about feeling safe on trains and returning to travel.
I've been travelling continuously through all lockdowns and said I'd feel more comfortable on a train with no masks or social distancing

I think the danger with these types of survey is that those who've not been on a train for a year will in many cases have become paranoid (in no small part due to the government and rail industry messaging) and respond with demands for masks, caps on number of passengers, etc - this is not sustainable and needs to be resisted.

Northern keeping up with their new-found skill of cleaning should definitely continue though!

 

[philosopher]

It's difficult to know what proportion of absentee passengers are being driven away by:

• Masks
• Fear of being fined/banged up by the non-essential travel police
• Fear that all public transport is a petri dish of germs
• Original reason for travelling having been suspended/removed.

Well at the moment pretty much all leisure travel and a large chuck of commuting trips banned by rail are banned so that would suggest the fourth reason accounts for most of the absentee passengers.

However at the end of the summer travelling for whatever reason was permitted, and rail use was still only 40% of normal, while car use was not far off 2019 levels. Therefore there were likely other reasons for the lack of rail passengers at the time.

 

[DB]

However at the end of the summer travelling for whatever reason was permitted, and rail use was still only 40% of normal, while car use was not far off 2019 levels. Therefore there were likely other reasons for the lack of rail passengers at the time.

A lot of companies still had most staff working from home though - what will be telling is when this is removed (while I'm sure there will be some change in working patterns, I don't think the 'everyone working from home' concept is going to be anywhere near as significant as some have predicted).