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Greater Anglia Bombardier Aventras (Class 720): Technical discussion and introduction

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JonathanH

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Are any expected out today?
Yes, the previous poster just indicated there is one on the 1010 Southend Victoria to Liverpool Street. However, that appears to go into Ilford on arrival. The afternoon working appears to start with 1K85 1610 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street.
 

iphone76

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On approach to Liverpool Street I walked down the train and I can now fully understand the comments re the aisle being very (too?) narrow with the 2 + 3 seating. I had to turn slightly to the side and I'm a 32" waist. Lol. Also, those knee cushions are already looking grubby so goodness knows what they will be like in a few weeks.

Nice to see the feet on seats brigade also out in force this morning as well. <(
 

Bletchleyite

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I'm sure they will for some be footrests (i.e. bendy people and those who have short lower legs so can actually sit on a chair with their foot on it, I can't). I'm still confused as to what the point of them is, though, when they aren't on every seat!
 

Railperf

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I'm on the 1031 from Wickford to London and its just told me I can change at Shenfield for the Elizabeth line. Its might be a long wait. But overall they are ok..
This looks like today's planned diagram (copied from another forum)

5K27 0705 Southend Victoria Dsn to Southend Victoria
1K27 0723 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
5K49 0833 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
2K49 1010 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
5V28 1124 London Liverpool Street to Ilford E.M.U.D.

with a pair of 720s operating the STP working shown starting 5K85 later.

5K85 1440 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Southend Victoria
1K85 1610 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
1K78 1725 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
1K19 1850 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
2K06 2013 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
5K16 2324 Southend Victoria to Southend Victoria Dsn
 

TrainTube

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This looks like today's planned diagram (copied from another forum)

5K27 0705 Southend Victoria Dsn to Southend Victoria
1K27 0723 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
5K49 0833 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
2K49 1010 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
5V28 1124 London Liverpool Street to Ilford E.M.U.D.

with a pair of 720s operating the STP working shown starting 5K85 later.

5K85 1440 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Southend Victoria
1K85 1610 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
1K78 1725 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
1K19 1850 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
2K06 2013 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
5K16 2324 Southend Victoria to Southend Victoria Dsn
Yep operated by 511 and 536

Having gone on the train, I think these will be more popular than other Aventras, the 2+3 does make the aisle very narrow however it's always good having that extra capacity, after all it needs to compete with a 12 car 321 service. The seats themselves are fine and shouldnt receive any complaints and obviously the facilities they have are fine. Overall not bad!
 

samuelmorris

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From what I've seen so far, the 730s will likely be the 'premier' Aventras, but 720s will certainly be up there. Other than the narrow aisles, they seem pretty well specified.
 

superalbs

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From what I've seen so far, the 730s will likely be the 'premier' Aventras, but 720s will certainly be up there. Other than the narrow aisles, they seem pretty well specified.
No doubt, with the 2+2 seating incl. armrests and tables, as well as the gangways and 110mph running. The 720s ride surprisingly smooth too, so I think the 730s will be very good new trains. What a change!
 

Metal_gee_man

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No doubt, with the 2+2 seating incl. armrests and tables, as well as the gangways and 110mph running. The 720s ride surprisingly smooth too, so I think the 730s will be very good new trains. What a change!
Having watched your video, it shows that over joints, points and poor rail they ride pretty well, its such a shame the aisles are as narrow as they are, Guards/Conductors/OBMs won't be too impressed at doing revenue checks when the seats are full.
The aisles on other 3+2 trains all have narrow aisles but these do seem smaller because the seats are possibly a few cms wider or the shell of the carriage is thicker, but at least you can walk through a SWR Class 450, SE Class 465 or a NT Class 319 with 3+2 seating, its entirely possible its a Bombardier problem because it seems a similar issue/oversight found in the SE Class 375s or the SN Class 377s.
 

Bletchleyite

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The aisles on other 3+2 trains all have narrow aisles but these do seem smaller because the seats are possibly a few cms wider or the shell of the carriage is thicker, but at least you can walk through a SWR Class 450, SE Class 465 or a NT Class 319 with 3+2 seating, its entirely possible its a Bombardier problem because it seems a similar issue/oversight found in the SE Class 375s or the SN Class 377s.

It's because they are 24m vehicles so narrower. 3+2 is mostly only found in 20m (wider) vehicles, Class 323s being the "go anywhere" (with wires) exception. Turbos (165/6) have 3+2 but are quite wide for a 23m vehicle.
 

43096

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It's because they are 24m vehicles so narrower. 3+2 is mostly only found in 20m (wider) vehicles, Class 323s being the "go anywhere" (with wires) exception. Turbos (165/6) have 3+2 but are quite wide for a 23m vehicle.
333s are 2+3 in a 23m shell as well.
 

Metal_gee_man

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It's because they are 24m vehicles so narrower. 3+2 is mostly only found in 20m (wider) vehicles, Class 323s being the "go anywhere" (with wires) exception. Turbos (165/6) have 3+2 but are quite wide for a 23m vehicle.
I'll admit its not something I've ever really noticed/realised I'd hate to ask how narrow a 26m tapered Class 390 would be compared to standard 20m commuter train
 

Railperf

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Yep operated by 511 and 536

Having gone on the train, I think these will be more popular than other Aventras, the 2+3 does make the aisle very narrow however it's always good having that extra capacity, after all it needs to compete with a 12 car 321 service. The seats themselves are fine and shouldnt receive any complaints and obviously the facilities they have are fine. Overall not bad!
Not sure a 720 would be more popular than a 345 or 710 on a crowded commuter run where you are only hopping on/off for a few stops.
Equally I wouldn't want to be sitting in longitudinal seating from Southend Victoria to Liverpool St for the best part of an hour. But the 345's do have a few rows of 2+2 seating. So i prefer them to the 710's which are purely longitudinal seating.
 

Bletchleyite

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These 'knee pads', could they be something to do with the sensors for occupancy?

I wonder if I might have worked out what they are for.

They seem to be present on seats where the row behind isn't perfectly aligned with the one in front, as for example the ones at the very end of the vehicle are inset slightly from the row in front.

Has someone perhaps decided that in a crash your knee connecting with the slightly sharp seat frame (rather than the niche) would be an unacceptable risk of injury? If so, I think they must have ignored how "manspreading" works :)

Does look a classic bit of "bodge a bit on then" British engineering if that is indeed why.
 

jon0844

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Given they ordered these units 2-3 years before there was even mention of a pandemic, I doubt passenger numbers not returning had much to do with it!

I meant to end that comment with an exclamation mark, not a question mark! It was an attempt at a joke.
 

jopsuk

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Having gone on the train, I think these will be more popular than other Aventras, the 2+3 does make the aisle very narrow however it's always good having that extra capacity, after all it needs to compete with a 12 car 321 service.
Given the highest (seated) capacity I can find quoted for any 321 seating variant is 309 (including tip-ups), giving a 12-car capacity of 927, the 540 of a 720/5 (making for 1080 in a pair) is the equivalent of almost two extra carriages in a 240m formation.
 

TheHSRailFan

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Like other fleet rolls-outs the first unit(s) in service will be monitored very closely by the manufacturer's experts but also Greater Anglia's fleet implementation team.

If there are no serious issues then you'll probably see a further set by the end of 2020. It all depends on the driver training programme, what Bombardier find during "in service" testing and mileage accumulation tests on each unit as to when further units will join the passenger fleet. These things go slowly at first but I think the Southend Vic line will be mostly Aventras by Spring. Once all Ilford drivers have signed the 720, then you'll start to see a few on the main line, then Colchester and Clacton drivers come next, then finally West Anglia by the end of 2021.

Though the plan may change.
ahhh thanks, Its gonna be a long time till they reach where i am because of platform extentions but this shall be good
 

1D54

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Naughty i know but I'm travelling down to Ilford on Saturday from the Midlands and was wondering if any 720/5s are likely to be working.
 

MP33

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Do the seat numbers for a 321 include the 16 1st class seats in every unit?
 

Taylorgb19

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Saw a video today of a 10 car 720 using Romford with SDO but how come the 360s or 321 didn’t call there in peaks
 

JonathanH

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Saw a video today of a 10 car 720 using Romford with SDO but how come the 360s or 321 didn’t call there in peaks
They don't call in the peaks because a) there is no capacity and b) one unit would be off the end of the platform and there is no SDO on the current units.

I'd imagine that 720s won't call in the peaks either.

To be pedantic the 321/4s have a primitive form of SDO but that wouldn't work at Romford like it does on the branches.
 

Kite159

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They don't call in the peaks because a) there is no capacity and b) one unit would be off the end of the platform and there is no SDO on the current units.

I'd imagine that 720s won't call in the peaks either.

To be pedantic the 321/4s have a primitive form of SDO but that wouldn't work at Romford like it does on the branches.

Also frees up space inside the train by not having any Romford commuters wanting a fast(er) service home.
 

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