Greater Anglia Bombardier Aventras (Class 720): Technical discussion and introduction

[Railperf]

Naughty i know but I'm travelling down to Ilford on Saturday from the Midlands and was wondering if any 720/5s are likely to be working.

Last Saturday a single pair of 720/5s worked in multiple on a Liverpool Street to Southend diagram as follows, so unless there are any issues, i expect a pair out again this weekend.

1K77 1450 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
2K66 1613 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
1K95 1730 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
1K98 1853 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
2K37 2010 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
1K14 2135 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
1K55 2300 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
2K26 0015 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

Crouch Valley?

Lea Valley I'd wager

 

[delticdave]

Lea Valley I'd wager

Probossible......

 

[superalbs]

Has anyone else noticed the centre carriages having slightly dimmed lighting compared to the rest of the train?

Example:

 

[samuelmorris]

I noticed that in your video and thought it odd. Given that it was the same in both units, I doubt it's a fault, it must be deliberate. Those aren't the pantograph/transformer vehicles are they?

 

[TheHSRailFan]

Crouch Valley?

Lea Valley I'd wager

Probossible......

Hertford Branch on the lea valley. For a quick round-up NR want to move the signal box at HFE but it has significant historic importance, the district council said no until they granted with conditions. All stations on the branch as I know need to be extended to accommodate 10 cars (2 units together of course), however, that becomes a possible issue at Ware. At the moment I'm just waiting for when they are introducing them onto the branch. Currently expecting that till summer 2021 or earlier.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I noticed that in your video and thought it odd. Given that it was the same in both units, I doubt it's a fault, it must be deliberate. Those aren't the pantograph/transformer vehicles are they?

Seems unlikely that it would be deliberate. Possibly a software bug common to all units?

 

[65477]

Lea Valley I'd wager

More logically this could be the Southminster branch which follows the river Crouch.

 

[1D54]

Last Saturday a single pair of 720/5s worked in multiple on a Liverpool Street to Southend diagram as follows, so unless there are any issues, i expect a pair out again this weekend.

1K77 1450 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
2K66 1613 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
1K95 1730 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
1K98 1853 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
2K37 2010 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
1K14 2135 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
1K55 2300 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
2K26 0015 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria

Thanks ever so much for that. I'm doing a few hours at Stratford before a non league football match so will hopefully catch up with them if working.

 

[superalbs]

I noticed that in your video and thought it odd. Given that it was the same in both units, I doubt it's a fault, it must be deliberate. Those aren't the pantograph/transformer vehicles are they?

I don't know about transformers, but the pantographs are on the outer intermediate car. If it is the case, it's a really considerate thing to do, not all of us appreciate 800-style blinders! A pleasant surprise, if intentional.

 

[samuelmorris]

I don't know about transformers, but the pantographs are on the outer intermediate car. If it is the case, it's a really considerate thing to do, not all of us appreciate 800-style blinders! A pleasant surprise, if intentional.

That's where I assumed they'd be, though of course units could potentially be reversed as the 321s and 360s can be currently, which as they're running pairs would break the symmetry. The only interior I ever remember being excessively bright was the FGW HST.

 

[JonathanH]

Thanks ever so much for that. I'm doing a few hours at Stratford before a non league football match so will hopefully catch up with them if working.

The STP schedules which enabled that working to run do seem to be in again for this Saturday which points to that schedule running.

 

[THC]

This looks like today's planned diagram (copied from another forum)

5K27 0705 Southend Victoria Dsn to Southend Victoria
1K27 0723 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
5K49 0833 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
2K49 1010 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
5V28 1124 London Liverpool Street to Ilford E.M.U.D.

with a pair of 720s operating the STP working shown starting 5K85 later.

5K85 1440 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Southend Victoria
1K85 1610 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
1K78 1725 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
1K19 1850 Southend Victoria to London Liverpool Street
2K06 2013 London Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria
5K16 2324 Southend Victoria to Southend Victoria Dsn

Would any of you kind people be able to confirm whether this diagram from Monday is in operation today too? Thanks in advance.

THC

 

[Railperf]

Would any of you kind people be able to confirm whether this diagram from Monday is in operation today too? Thanks in advance.

THC

The units seem to be have been operating reliably. So it is likely to be running subject to any last minute operational issues

 

[JonathanH]

Would any of you kind people be able to confirm whether this diagram from Monday is in operation today too? Thanks in advance.

THC

Best thing to do is to look at Tiger for Southend Airport, Stratford or Liverpool Street and see if a 10-coach train is advertised, then perhaps cross-check against RTT that the diagram has run to schedule. Looking at it at 0845, the 1015 from Southend Airport (1010 from Southend Victoria) is shown to be worked by a 10-coach train so it looks like it is planned to be in operation.

 

[THC]

Thanks to you both, much appreciated.

THC

 

[Railperf]

Best thing to do is to look at Tiger for Southend Airport, Stratford or Liverpool Street and see if a 10-coach train is advertised, then perhaps cross-check against RTT that the diagram has run to schedule. Looking at it at 0845, the 1015 from Southend Airport (1010 from Southend Victoria) is shown to be worked by a 10-coach train so it looks like it is planned to be in operation.

Yes. TIGER the best way to check. That is what I used to check ON Tues.

The new trains are good performers. Initial acceleration gains 15 to 20 seconds over a Class 321 to intermediate timing points. Just the braking is still cautious as driver get used to it. Seem to be two long 50 TSRs on the up line between Rayleigh and Wickford and Wickford and Billericay unless DAS is advising 50mph to prevent early running.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

More logically this could be the Southminster branch which follows the river Crouch.

more logically how?

 

[delticdave]

more logically how?

Because G.A. call it the "Crouch Valley Line"?

As valleys go, it's quite flat though....

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

Because G.A. call it the "Crouch Valley Line"?

As valleys go, it's quite flat though

Yes but I don't understand what you mean, someone posted saying they weren't expecting to see 720's near them soon, someone suggested the southminster branch, and I suggested the lea valley.

 

[cactustwirly]

No doubt, with the 2+2 seating incl. armrests and tables, as well as the gangways and 110mph running. The 720s ride surprisingly smooth too, so I think the 730s will be very good new trains. What a change!

This is very surprising, my local trains are Aventras and Electrostars, they are some of the worst EMUs I have used for ride quality.
I haven't yet experienced a 720, but from the 345s I'd say the Electrostars are vastly superior in almost every way.

 

[rg177]

Currently on board one of the 720s and I must say that the ride quality is indeed superb.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Currently on board one of the 720s and I must say that the ride quality is indeed superb.

I find Bombardier are near enough always better for ride quality than Siemens.

 

[samuelmorris]

I find Bombardier are near enough always better for ride quality than Siemens.

The Electrostar wobble was pretty famous, I haven't seen much of that on Aventras thankfully - it's mostly all the rattling from underneath that sounds like something's falling off (On 345s, have not ridden a 720 yet). It seems to mar a lot of modern stock so I assume it's something to do with lightweight bogies.

 

[rg177]

I find Bombardier are near enough always better for ride quality than Siemens.

The ride from Shenfield into London was silky smooth compared to getting thrown around on a 387 from Stevenage into the Cross!

 

[iphone76]

I rode my 2nd 720 this morning and realised its the handles on the side of the seat which stop we walking down the aisle freely. I wonder if there is a need for them on the side of every seat. Especially now with next to no standees.

The ride from Shenfield into London was silky smooth compared to getting thrown around on a 387 from Stevenage into the Cross!

Agreed. Even over the pointwork at Gidea Park at linespeed

 

[RailWonderer]

I’m on my first one now. The seat padding is on par with a 745/755. The aisles are far too narrow, you have to sidestep the whole way through the coach. Then again the Pendolino aisles are nearly as narrow.

The PIS says ‘this is the Greater Anglia service’, but alternates with the old PIS. They will surely fix this they way GWR were tinkering with the 387 and 800s PIS as well when they were introduced.

The ride feels certainly more stable and softer than Paddington - Reading fast on a 387 or Kings Cross - Cambridge, where the coach feels a bit flimsy although with little rattling. The seating is too dense, but there is no point complaining that it ought to be 2+2 instead either.

Ceiling to floor mirror in the loo as well, overall a well put together unit, the seating being slightly wider than the 3+2 Grammar from the Desiros and the old Ashbourne.

 

[mightyena]

The Electrostar wobble was pretty famous, I haven't seen much of that on Aventras thankfully - it's mostly all the rattling from underneath that sounds like something's falling off (On 345s, have not ridden a 720 yet). It seems to mar a lot of modern stock so I assume it's something to do with lightweight bogies.

In my experience, Electrostars seem to ride well at low speeds, but they can get a bit violent when they go fast enough. My main experience is 377/5s and 387s on the MML, which seemed to ride worse than both 319s and 700s

Also Southern's 377s down the Arun Valley line seem to lurch and bounce around like mad. I'm not sure if this is an Electrostar specific issue (I'll have to take a 700 down there at some point to compare) or whether the linespeed is just at the high end of what's comfortable for the track quality, but I've had 377s go down there where things were falling off the tables, and you get disconcerting clonking noises coming from the bogies as it bounces around.

 

[southern442]

In my experience, Electrostars seem to ride well at low speeds, but they can get a bit violent when they go fast enough. My main experience is 377/5s and 387s on the MML, which seemed to ride worse than both 319s and 700s

Also Southern's 377s down the Arun Valley line seem to lurch and bounce around like mad. I'm not sure if this is an Electrostar specific issue (I'll have to take a 700 down there at some point to compare) or whether the linespeed is just at the high end of what's comfortable for the track quality, but I've had 377s go down there where things were falling off the tables, and you get disconcerting clonking noises coming from the bogies as it bounces around.

The Arun Valley line is certainly more noticeably bumpy, but I have also been thrown around a little on sections of the Oxted line. Aventras I haven't really noticed any poor ride quality from the few times I've been on them, and they do have some competition in terms of ride quality from the 700s too.

 

[Railperf]

Yes but I don't understand what you mean, someone posted saying they weren't expecting to see 720's near them soon, someone suggested the southminster branch, and I suggested the lea valley.

Southminster will likely get them before WA.