Greater Anglia not allowing TOD

[trebor79]

For some time now, if you've booked with GA either through their app or on their website using a mobile device, the only option for ticket delivery has been e-tickets.
I've always booked using the desktop site to collect TOD tickets (I prefer them and it's easier for making expenses claims). This morning I've discovered that their desktop site has removed this option, and the only options offered are e-tickets, or physical tickets posted out (with a fee).

So I've had to book via raileasy instead (which seems a bit broken ATM - told me there were not journeys available Diss - London if I specified "Arrive before", but worked if I specified "Leave after" although it did offer me a much wider range of tickets than GA anyway).

Are TOCs actually allowed to make it impossible to buy TOD tickets in this way?

 

[eastdyke]

For some time now, if you've booked with GA either through their app or on their website using a mobile device, the only option for ticket delivery has been e-tickets.
I've always booked using the desktop site to collect TOD tickets (I prefer them and it's easier for making expenses claims). This morning I've discovered that their desktop site has removed this option, and the only options offered are e-tickets, or physical tickets posted out (with a fee).

So I've had to book via raileasy instead (which seems a bit broken ATM - told me there were not journeys available Diss - London if I specified "Arrive before", but worked if I specified "Leave after" although it did offer me a much wider range of tickets than GA anyway).

Are TOCs actually allowed to make it impossible to buy TOD tickets in this way?

If you want TOD, for the time being at least, why not select EMR [or another TOC] who will sell a TOD for your GA journey?

 

[trebor79]

If you want TOD, for the time being at least, why not select EMR [or another TOC] who will sell a TOD for your GA journey?

I'm aware of that workaround, but it's not really the point and doesn't help if other TOCs start pulling the same stunt.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Yes I believe they are , and that's the way the industry is heading, no more CCST.

 

[AY1975]

If you want TOD, for the time being at least, why not select EMR [or another TOC] who will sell a TOD for your GA journey?

That's fine as long as the Greater Anglia ticket vending machines still allow TOD for tickets booked via another operator's website, which I guess they still will at least for the time being but I suspect that sooner or later GA might well withdraw that facility as well.

Yes I believe they are , and that's the way the industry is heading, no more CCST.

What does CCST stand for? It helps if you spell it out in full at least the first time you refer to it.

The GA website does actually still say you can collect your ticket from a TVM (see https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/tickets-fares/daily-tickets/advance-tickets) but presumably that page hasn't been updated yet and when you actually book your ticket it doesn't offer TOD as an option.

It also says GA tickets are available as Print Your Own or Mobile tickets, suggesting that GA has reverted to the less flexible m-ticket and Print At Home format rather than the more flexible e-tickets.

 

[trebor79]

CCST = Credit card size ticket I believe.
Aside from the conveniences I listed, they are also the only national rail ticketing option that will work London Underground barriers, so their effective withdrawal from sale is particularly dumb for a TOC which will be selling a lot of cross-London through tickets.

 

[James H]

You may find TOD is offered if you try to book a cross-London ticket

 

[js517]

That's fine as long as the Greater Anglia ticket vending machines still allow TOD for tickets booked via another operator's website, which I guess they still will at least for the time being but I suspect that sooner or later GA might well withdraw that facility as well.

What does CCST stand for? It helps if you spell it out in full at least the first time you refer to it.

The GA website does actually still say you can collect your ticket from a TVM (see https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/tickets-fares/daily-tickets/advance-tickets) but presumably that page hasn't been updated yet and when you actually book your ticket it doesn't offer TOD as an option.

It also says GA tickets are available as Print Your Own or Mobile tickets, suggesting that GA has reverted to the less flexible m-ticket and Print At Home format rather than the more flexible e-tickets.

I'm not sure GA have ever enabled e-ticket for most of their flows? If they were allowed, I'm sure the Raileasy site would offer you e-ticket (as well as ToD).

 

[Haywain]

I'm aware of that workaround, but it's not really the point and doesn't help if other TOCs start pulling the same stunt.

Why should retailers offer an expensive means of fulfilment when cheaper options are also available?

 

[skyhigh]

You may find TOD is offered if you try to book a cross-London ticket

The GA website will offer a ticket for collection where e-tickets aren't enabled, so you can get a paper ticket for travel via London etc.

 

[Titfield]

Why should retailers offer an expensive means of fulfilment when cheaper options are also available?

Because of customer preference. Encouraging change is one thing, forcing change is another.

 

[Ianno87]

Because of customer preference. Encouraging change is one thing, forcing change is another.

Which customers' preference? Increasingly, e-tickets are the majority preference.

Physical tickets for many things are old-hat. E.g. went to Alton Towers a couple of weeks ago, and you can't have anything that isn't an e-ticket. Didn't seem to be affecting the busyness of the park...

 

[trebor79]

Why should retailers offer an expensive means of fulfilment when cheaper options are also available?

Because the cheaper option doesn't suit my preference?

 

[221129]

Because the cheaper option doesn't suit my preference?

Then you are welcome to pay for your preference. (By having it posted to you.)

XC have charged for TOD for quite a few years now.

 

[trebor79]

Then you are welcome to pay for your preference. (By having it posted to you.)

XC have charged for TOD for quite a few years now.

I'd be quite happy to pay a modest fee for TOD. Why can't I do that? Post is no good when I'm travelling in less than a couple of working days time.

 

[Mainline421]

I'd be quite happy to pay a modest fee for TOD. Why can't I do that? Post is no good when I'm travelling in less than a couple of working days time.

You can effectively do this for London tickets by entering a destination in Zone 1 underground anyway (e.g. Waterloo). That way the only fulfillment method will be CCST. Simplest method would just be to purchase from the TVM though.

E-tickets still have many issues for some of us. I don't have a working printer, and have travelled while my phone was dead quite a few times.

 

[AY1975]

I'm not sure GA have ever enabled e-ticket for most of their flows? If they were allowed, I'm sure the Raileasy site would offer you e-ticket (as well as ToD).

I used one last year.

For some time now, if you've booked with GA either through their app or on their website using a mobile device, the only option for ticket delivery has been e-tickets.
I've always booked using the desktop site to collect TOD tickets (I prefer them and it's easier for making expenses claims).

Agreed, if you need to make an expenses claim for an e-ticket you either have to forward your booking confirmation email to your employer (if they are happy to accept it electronically) or print out a copy of the said email, which is more of a faff than simply submitting your used paper ticket. e-tickets are fine if it's not a work journey, though.

 

[trebor79]

I'd be quite happy to pay a modest fee for TOD. Why can't I do that? Post is no good when I'm travelling in less than a couple of working days time.

You can effectively do this for London tickets by entering a destination in Zone 1 underground anyway (e.g. Waterloo). That way the only fulfillment method will be CCST. Simplest method would just be to purchase from the TVM though.

E-tickets still have many issues for some of us. I don't have a working printer, and have travelled while my phone was dead quite a few times.

Neither of those options work for a lot of ticket types. Eg a GA Business Return which just be purchased in advance and I believe can only be bought to Liverpool Street.
Just don't understand the pressing urgency to remove the TOD option. Like I say, if it costs 50p to print the tickets, I'll pay 50p.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Neither of those options work for a lot of ticket types. Eg a GA Business Return which just be purchased in advance and I believe can only be bought to Liverpool Street.
Just don't understand the pressing urgency to remove the TOD option. Like I say, if it costs 50p to print the tickets, I'll pay 50p.

To support TOD there is the station infrastructure as well, you need a CCST printer (Credit Card Size Ticket) You need gatelines that accept CCST. you need to support the 70s technology for the encoding of the magstripe on the CCST the cost is an awful lot more than 50p. We're examining ever point that we currently use CCST and looking at alternatives. Why do CCST need to be posted to the customer ? We could post an eTicket without the need for a specialist printer.The powers that be have decided there is a better way to do things and the industry is moving towards this. As mentioned above Alton Towers don't offer you the choice of how you want your ticket, Ticketmaster most times don't offer you the choice, neither do Airlines. Why should Rail be any different. The ticket isn't the product you're buying after all.

 

[yorkie]

Greater Anglia have enabled e-tickets on their flows now, is that right? If so that is good news.

As for buying tickets, the simple solution is to use a retailer that issues tickets in the format that you want (where available); for example Trainsplit will allow the choice of e-ticket or TOD, where both options are enabled by the fare setter.

Agreed, if you need to make an expenses claim for an e-ticket you either have to forward your booking confirmation email to your employer (if they are happy to accept it electronically) or print out a copy of the said email, which is more of a faff than simply submitting your used paper ticket. e-tickets are fine if it's not a work journey, though.

I find e-tickets to be easier for expense and delay repay claims; I just attach the PDF to the form (especially so if it's a long split produced by Trainsplit as it's still just one PDF, rather than arranging multiple pieces of card and faffing around with a camera)

I'd be quite happy to pay a modest fee for TOD. Why can't I do that? Post is no good when I'm travelling in less than a couple of working days time.

No need to pay extra; just switch retailer.

 

[Haywain]

Agreed, if you need to make an expenses claim for an e-ticket you either have to forward your booking confirmation email to your employer (if they are happy to accept it electronically) or print out a copy of the said email, which is more of a faff than simply submitting your used paper ticket. e-tickets are fine if it's not a work journey, though.

Arrangement for claiming expenses from employers are not something that should be governing how the railways conduct their business so long as proper VAT receipts are always offered.

for example Trainsplit will allow the choice of e-ticket or TOD,

It is, however, fair to say that Trainsplit would prefer their customers not to use ToD as much as Greater Anglia. Especially since Trainsplit customers are likely to be using the site to obtain lower value tickets where the cost of ToD is more significant.

 

[yorkie]

Arrangement for claiming expenses from employers are not something that should be governing how the railways conduct their business so long as proper VAT receipts are always offered.

Agreed

It is, however, fair to say that Trainsplit would prefer their customers not to use ToD as much as Greater Anglia. Especially since Trainsplit customers are likely to be using the site to obtain lower value tickets where the cost of ToD is more significant.

Yes; any retailer who offers TOD (where e-tickets are also available) is incurring additional unwanted expense by doing so, and if the transaction is low value they make a loss.

 

[XAM2175]

I would be fine with being able to use a TVM to print an e-ticket on ordinary paper roll - the key being that the ticketing system shouldn't be based entirely upon an assumption that the passenger has access to at least one of 1) a working smartphone or 2) a printer at home or work.

 

[Sleepy]

As Greater Anglia have a user unfriendly web site anyway I would suggest http://tickets.gwr.com/gw/en/journeyplanning/mixingdeck with added bonus of nectar points. GA's main aim seems to be showing DfT how clever we are because of the high level e-tickets being sold.

 

[Wallsendmag]

As Greater Anglia have a user unfriendly web site anyway I would suggest http://tickets.gwr.com/gw/en/journeyplanning/mixingdeck with added bonus of nectar points. GA's main aim seems to be showing DfT how clever we are because of the high level e-tickets being sold.

If the rest of the industry is anywhere near our own figures then 85% of sales are eTickets. This is nearly getting to the point where CCST becomes too expensive. I know our CCST suppliers are dversifying into many other areas and now also supply our Smartcards

 

[Hadders]

It seems to me that once cross London and outboundary travelcards get resolved then CCST will be completely killed off.

 

[yorkie]

It seems to me that once cross London and outboundary travelcards get resolved then CCST will be completely killed off.

Yes e-tickets are being held back by TfL, Merseyrail, Scotrail and TfW (as discussed in other threads) and so TOD/CCST really will be on its last legs once certain organisations stop holding everyone else back.

I would be fine with being able to use a TVM to print an e-ticket on ordinary paper roll - the key being that the ticketing system shouldn't be based entirely upon an assumption that the passenger has access to at least one of 1) a working smartphone or 2) a printer at home or work.

Yes this suggestion has cropped up many times before and is a valid suggestion in my opinion; sadly I am not aware of it ever being implemented.

 

[MotCO]

Do retailers get charged different amounts for the supply of their tickets depending in the format sold? i.e. are e-tickets charged to the retailer at a different rate to CCST?

 

[Starmill]

If you try to buy a ticket which can't be delivered otherwise than by ToD it will still work. CrossCountry's charge for ToD doesn't apply if there's no other free way to get your tickets.

 

[trebor79]

To support TOD there is the station infrastructure as well, you need a CCST printer (Credit Card Size Ticket) You need gatelines that accept CCST. you need to support the 70s technology for the encoding of the magstripe on the CCST the cost is an awful lot more than 50p.

All of those things are already in place, the TOC is just reducing to give me the option.
Indeed they have to stay in place until there's a solution for the tube etc.
The marginal cost is the piece of card, probably less than 1p.