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Grimselbahn - A step forward?

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mwmbwls

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The metre-gauge operator Zentralbahn is to purchase the 5 km Meiringen-Innertkirchen-Bahn from hydroelectric power company Kraftwerke Oberhasli. The latter are giving up rail operations as a result of changes in legal and operating requirements. This move could in turn bring forward proposals to build the Grimselbahn Tunnel and Line..

The Grimselbahn would start at Innertkirchen, terminus of the 5·0 km Meiringen-Innertkirchen-Bahn which connects with the Zentralbahn at Meiringen. The route would initially run 13·7 km south to Handeck, with 6·3 km in tunnels and 2·3 km protected by avalanche shelters. From Handeck the 8·3 km Grimsel Tunnel would take the trains to Oberwald on the MGB. The entire line would be single track and electrified.

The two cantons have applied for federal funding for the project. They envisage that planning could be completed and legal powers put in place in 2019, when construction would start for opening in 2025. The line is predicted to carry 400 000 passengers/year.

Linking the Zentralbahn and MIB in the north with the MGB and Rhätische Bahn in the south would create a continuous metre-gauge network of around 850 km, albeit with two electrification systems (after the MIB conversion) and two types of rack.

The first proposals for a Grimsel railway were put forward in 1850s, but were dropped in favour of the Gotthard and Simplon standard gauge routes. The concept was revived after World War II as part of a wider scheme for the region, of which only MGB’s Furka Base Tunnel was completed.
 
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eastwestdivide

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Bit of info here in an 18 Sep 2020 Railway Gazette article, but no mention of the Grimsel plan:

talking about the takeover as summarised in the OP's first paragraph and adding
A longer term goal over the next five to 15 years is to convert the line from 1·2 kV DC to 15 kV 16·7 Hz electrification and introduce a direct service between Interlaken Ost and Innertkirchen. Some of the existing electrification infrastructure could be retained, and because the line is short a new substation would not be needed.=

and a 10 Sep 2020 press release in German from ZB:
saying more or less the same as the Railway Gazette article, minus the electrification conversion
 

davetheguard

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They envisage that planning could be completed and legal powers put in place in 2019,

I've never heard of this plan before - fascinating! As it's now September 2020, I wonder, have these powers been obtained? This new railway line sounds a very interesting proposal; I wonder how likely it is to proceed?
 

mwmbwls

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There have been a number of precursor programmes in particular the Vereina Tunnel which connects the Landquart–Davos Platz and the –Scuol-Tarasp lines. It opened in 1975. Since then cut off tunnels have become popular in Switzerland - in addition to new bores relieving old tunnels such as the Simplon.
 

davetheguard

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Looks like it could open up the possibility of, say, direct metre gauge trains from Luzern to Zermatt; or Interlaken to Chur.
 

mwmbwls

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Looks like it could open up the possibility of, say, direct metre gauge trains from Luzern to Zermatt; or Interlaken to Chur.
Yes - and the tunnel economics are reinforced by co-locating a Trans Alpine power line in the tunnel replacing the vulnerable route following the existing road
 

Baxenden Bank

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I have recently started viewing the 'Swiss Railway Journeys' series. (24 episodes, filmed 1989-2004 and available on Youtube). Following each episode I do a quick update using Wikipedia, Google maps, aerial and streetview. The number of improvements made to the various networks since the series was filmed is quite remarkable, with the new base tunnels, doubling of single lines etc.

One episode goes to Meiringen but does not cover the Meiringen-Innertkirchen-Bahn itself (if I remember correctly). Another episode covers the Vereina Tunnel project referred to above.

An excellent, if slightly dated, series. For anyone interested, I prepared (for my own benefit) a rough map of the lines covered - one thing that is missing from the series, although each episode has a map just for that episode. The lines covered are heavily marked, Meiringen being roughly on the centre. The base map is taken from Wikipedia.
 

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30907

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I can see the case for Zentralbahn taking over MIB - it could use the stock of the hourly Interlaken-Meiringen RB in its lengthy layover and connect ex Luzern.
However, I suspect it would increase the amount of fresh air carried, as Innertkirchen isn't a huge place.
The idea of a Grimselbahn is intriguing - the Goms (Upper Rhone Valley) is much more heavily settled now than it was when I previously travelled through it (40+ years ago!) and is difficult to access from Luzern, Zurich etc. However, the business case might be challenging - much more so than that for the Vereina Tunnel mentioned upthread.
 

Austriantrain

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I have recently started viewing the 'Swiss Railway Journeys' series. (24 episodes, filmed 1989-2004 and available on Youtube). Following each episode I do a quick update using Wikipedia, Google maps, aerial and streetview. The number of improvements made to the various networks since the series was filmed is quite remarkable, with the new base tunnels, doubling of single lines etc.

Switzerland- since it is a direct democracy, actually the Swiss people - has long had a strong consensus that the railway network should be improved, even though it is not cheap.
However, they also have been very focused: Each and every investment is appraised whether it makes long-term sense and the Takt comes above all. No investment in the network will be approved if it doesn’t fit into long-term timetabling plans.
 
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apk55

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I would have thought the biggest problem to through running would be the incompatibility of the rack systems. While MGB trains could run into Interlaken as there is no rack between there and Meiringen, the Brunig pass to Luzern uses a totally different rack system. Creating stock where one rack wheel is lifted up and another lowered would be a mechanical nightmare.
I am surprised that the Swiss have not considered a Brinnig pass base tunnel to eliminate rack sections on the line.
 

furnessvale

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I would have thought the biggest problem to through running would be the incompatibility of the rack systems. While MGB trains could run into Interlaken as there is no rack between there and Meiringen, the Brunig pass to Luzern uses a totally different rack system. Creating stock where one rack wheel is lifted up and another lowered would be a mechanical nightmare.
I am surprised that the Swiss have not considered a Brinnig pass base tunnel to eliminate rack sections on the line.
I would imagine changing the rack system on one or other of the lines would be considerably cheaper than a base tunnel. I don't think the Brunig route, on its own, could justify a base tunnel.
 

mwmbwls

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What are the relative lengths of rack assisted track on the now separated northern and southern systems.
 

30907

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What are the relative lengths of rack assisted track on the now separated northern and southern systems.
From a quick look at the rail atlas, about 11km on Zentralbahn and 4km on the Goms section of the MGB. However, both are part of bigger networks with extensive rack.
If a service were operated Interlaken-Meiringen-Innertkirchen-Oberwald(-Brig) it could simply dispense with the ZB rack.
 

apk55

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The Zentralbahn only uses rack (riggenbach system) over the Brunig pass from Giswil to Meiringen on the line to Luzern - about a 15 KM with a ruling grade of 12%. And not all of this is rack equiped so the actual length of rack equipped line is about 10 or 11KM. It also has a branch to Englelberg which has a rack section.
In contast the MGB has many sections of rack (abt system).
 

Alfonso

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I would have thought the biggest problem to through running would be the incompatibility of the rack systems. While MGB trains could run into Interlaken as there is no rack between there and Meiringen, the Brunig pass to Luzern uses a totally different rack system. Creating stock where one rack wheel is lifted up and another lowered would be a mechanical nightmare.
I am surprised that the Swiss have not considered a Brinnig pass base tunnel to eliminate rack sections on the line.
A mechanical nightmare? This is the sort of thing the Swiss excell at!
 

Baxenden Bank

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They could always 'change the horses'. Does the Glacier Express still change locomotives a couple of times to deal with the steepest sections?
 

Austriantrain

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They could always 'change the horses'. Does the Glacier Express still change locomotives a couple of times to deal with the steepest sections?

Of course, in Disentis (and again in Chur, but that has to do with the change of direction).
 

30907

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They could always 'change the horses'.
Fine, until you switch to MU stock as is steadily happening on both networks - excepting the GEx workings.
Actually, though, the Interlaken-Meiringen(-Innertkirchen) sets are not rack equipped at all, says Herr/Frau W. Pedia, so my solution doesn't work out-of-the-box either.
 

furnessvale

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They could always 'change the horses'. Does the Glacier Express still change locomotives a couple of times to deal with the steepest sections?
It is a year or two since I went over these lines. Some rack railways also have pinions on the coaches for braking purposes. Is that the case on any of the lines in question? If so, it could complicate things.
 

apk55

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It is a year or two since I went over these lines. Some rack railways also have pinions on the coaches for braking purposes. Is that the case on any of the lines in question? If so, it could complicate things.
It is normal to have pinions on all the coaches (passenger at least). If you go on a train entering a rack section there is a clunk under each coach as the pinion engages.
As both lines have up and down sections with a loco at the head both ways it is important to have rack braking on the rear coaches.
 

37201xoIM

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Indeed, and I would think that the pinions for an Abt-equipped coach's brakes would surely to be different from those on a Riggenbach, aye?
 

apk55

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abt rack systems have two cog wheels with teeth 180 degrees out of phase but riggenbach has a single wheel. On the track abt rack has two parallel racks where as riggenbach uses a ladder type structure. It is also possible that the tooth pitch is different.
Therefore it is impossible to have a common design of wheel that would engage with both rack types.
As the rack rail is in approximately the same position on both systems the only way you could stock that could work on either system would be to lift one rack wheel out of the way and lower in the other type in its place. I very much doubt if this has ever been done. Then you would need safety systems to ensure that the wheel is down and locked in position
 

Baxenden Bank

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It is a year or two since I went over these lines. Some rack railways also have pinions on the coaches for braking purposes. Is that the case on any of the lines in question? If so, it could complicate things.
I remembered that bit of the video (rack pinions on coaches), after posting.
 
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