GWR Class 165/166 Turbo Diagrams

[Thomas Jenkin]

First class available on 3-car 165s and at one end of a 166 when operating LTV services.

Thanks.

 

[trainmania100]

GWR Class 166 Testing West Coastway
Tuesday night into Wednesday morning, GWR are running some test class 166 paths to and from Brighton. This is for the upcoming replacement of 158s / 150s on the Brighton - BRI/Cardiff/Malvern services. There was a test run a few month ago but this was cancelled part way.

3Z87 Portsmouth harbour to Brighton https://live.rail-record.co.uk/train?c=V19528&d=21/01/2020

3Z88 Brighton to Fratton CSD https://live.rail-record.co.uk/train/?c=V19330&d=22/01/2020

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Well. If 2 3-car Class 166's do take over the Brighton services from 3-car 158's then that's roughly 110 more seats (roughly 55 each) - I wonder if the 2 158's freed up will provide a few extra services on the Cornish Mainline this summer.

Just out of curiosity, have any Turbos been trialled on the branch lines in Cornwall? 2-car 165's provide more seats than a 2-car 150.

I ask as when 769's take over that's 19 Turbos freed up so just wondering what services the released Turbos are likely to be used on - although I sense a few services to and from Oxford and Didcot may require a 4-coach Turbo.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Well. If 2 3-car Class 166's do take over the Brighton services from 3-car 158's then that's roughly 110 more seats (roughly 55 each) - I wonder if the 2 158's freed up will provide a few extra services on the Cornish Mainline this summer.

Just out of curiosity, have any Turbos been trialled on the branch lines in Cornwall? 2-car 165's provide more seats than a 2-car 150.

I ask as when 769's take over that's 19 Turbos freed up so just wondering what services the released Turbos are likely to be used on - although I sense a few services to and from Oxford and Didcot may require a 4-coach Turbo.

The first role of displaced turbos is to dispatch the 2x150/0 to Northern and also free up the 143s for recycling.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

The first role of displaced turbos is to dispatch the 2x150/0 to Northern and also free up the 143s for recycling.

Good idea - no offense to 143's !

 

[Siemens Staines]

If I have understood the transition correctly I think that only 18 Reading turbos will be freed up, all 16 3-car 165 and 2 of the 2-car 165. This will leave Reading with 8 2-car 165 for 7 diagrams (5 Oxford shuttle + Marlow & Greenford). I think that the 19th extra 769 was planned to get swallowed up by the increase to 3tph on North Downs but this is all based upon information from around the time that the 769 fleet was ordered and a lot of water has flowed under the bridge since then so I may be wrong.

 

[Clarence Yard]

If I have understood the transition correctly I think that only 18 Reading turbos will be freed up, all 16 3-car 165 and 2 of the 2-car 165. This will leave Reading with 8 2-car 165 for 7 diagrams (5 Oxford shuttle + Marlow & Greenford). I think that the 19th extra 769 was planned to get swallowed up by the increase to 3tph on North Downs but this is all based upon information from around the time that the 769 fleet was ordered and a lot of water has flowed under the bridge since then so I may be wrong.

You are. It is now 10 for 9 165/1 2 car diagrams - Greenford, Windsor, Marlow, Bedwyn Peak Shuttle and 5 Reading/Didcot-Oxford/Banbury, inc. North Cots stoppers.

The 769 will be 19 for 16 diagrams - 10 North Downs, 4 Basingstoke (one peak only), Henley and Bourne End (Peak).

 

[Siemens Staines]

Thank you for the update it is most helpful. I thought that Bedwyn peak and Windsor were going to go over to 769 but clearly not!

 

[JN114]

I too was under the impression Windsor would see 769 ops (2-165 in woefully inadequate at peaks and on Saturdays), but it would necessitate training lower link Padd drivers on 769s; which goes against the “only Reading are learning them” philosophy.

 

[Kite159]

Well. If 2 3-car Class 166's do take over the Brighton services from 3-car 158's then that's roughly 110 more seats (roughly 55 each) - I wonder if the 2 158's freed up will provide a few extra services on the Cornish Mainline this summer.

Just out of curiosity, have any Turbos been trialled on the branch lines in Cornwall? 2-car 165's provide more seats than a 2-car 150.

I ask as when 769's take over that's 19 Turbos freed up so just wondering what services the released Turbos are likely to be used on - although I sense a few services to and from Oxford and Didcot may require a 4-coach Turbo.

However because they are 3+2 seating, most passengers would rather stand than squeeze themselves into the middle seats so it's a moot point.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

Have chosen to book a ticket from Worthing to Bristol Temple Meads and being give the choice of a London Interchange or a GWR journt crosscrounty, I foolishly chose GWR hoping it still had 158s running the route, hopefully with nice comfy seats.
The idea of a 165 turning up fills me with dread hopefully these tests fail and the 158s stay for a near 3hr journey.

 

[cactustwirly]

However because they are 3+2 seating, most passengers would rather stand than squeeze themselves into the middle seats so it's a moot point.

Not from my experience, the middle seats are the last to be filled, but lots of people sit on them instead of standing.

 

[jimm]

Have chosen to book a ticket from Worthing to Bristol Temple Meads and being give the choice of a London Interchange or a GWR journt crosscrounty, I foolishly chose GWR hoping it still had 158s running the route, hopefully with nice comfy seats.
The idea of a 165 turning up fills me with dread hopefully these tests fail and the 158s stay for a near 3hr journey.

People made three-hour plus journeys on Turbos between Paddington and Hereford for many years and lived to tell the tale. Not ideal, but far from the end of the world. From the way some people go about them here, you might think they had bus seats, as originally fitted in Pacers. People only tend to sit in the middle seats in the rows of 3 on very busy services anyway.

And 166211 made it to Brighton and back without demolishing any platforms - it seems fair to assume that the plan will be to allocate this variety of Turbo to the Brighton runs anyway, rather than the high-capacity suburban-configured 165s.

https://www.chichester.co.uk/lifestyle/new-type-train-tested-west-coastway-line-1373272

 

[Non Multi]

Have chosen to book a ticket from Worthing to Bristol Temple Meads and being give the choice of a London Interchange or a GWR journt crosscrounty, I foolishly chose GWR hoping it still had 158s running the route, hopefully with nice comfy seats.
The idea of a 165 turning up fills me with dread hopefully these tests fail and the 158s stay for a near 3hr journey.

If it's a 166, it may have a declassified first compartment at one (or both) ends of the unit. They'll be comfy seats (even if they're slowly falling to bits) and not on top of the engine, so reasonably quiet too. Enjoy the comfy BR era seats whilst you still can...

 

[Metal_gee_man]

Thanks for the help guys a 2 car 165 attached to a 3 car 165 turned up and provided a relatively comfortable ride in the old 1st class section with the fixed armrests
They are aren't perfect for intercity stuff but they'll do

 

[PHILIPE]

Thanks for the help guys a 2 car 165 attached to a 3 car 165 turned up and provided a relatively comfortable ride in the old 1st class section with the fixed armrests
They are aren't perfect for intercity stuff but they'll do

View attachment 73249

If this was on the Cardiff to Portsmouth route, you wouldn't have seen a 3 Car 165. It would have been a 3 Car 166

 

[cactustwirly]

If this was on the Cardiff to Portsmouth route, you wouldn't have seen a 3 Car 165. It would have been a 3 Car 166

The only services booked for a 3 car 165 are Reading to Gatwick/Redhill; Reading - Basingstoke and Maidenhead - Bourne End peak shuttles

 

[Metal_gee_man]

If this was on the Cardiff to Portsmouth route, you wouldn't have seen a 3 Car 165. It would have been a 3 Car 166

So I understood the 166s had 2 + 2 seating, and this definitely had 3 + 2 networker seats. But hey, the pedants were always gonna put me correct

 

[HamworthyGoods]

So I understood the 166s had 2 + 2 seating, and this definitely had 3 + 2 networker seats. But hey, the pedants were always gonna put me correct

166s have a mix of 2+3 (mostly) and 2+2 (some bays in the centre car) seating.

The bays which were 2+2 I think were all at one end of the middle car and had full size tables too? Plus there’s declassified first with 2+2 bays on the sets cascaded away from Reading.

 

[cactustwirly]

So I understood the 166s had 2 + 2 seating, and this definitely had 3 + 2 networker seats. But hey, the pedants were always gonna put me correct

No 166s have 2+3 seating like the 165s, but it's a slightly less dense layout with more luggage racks and they have carpets and air-conditioning, which the 165s haven't got.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

No 166s have 2+3 seating like the 165s, but it's a slightly less dense layout with more luggage racks and they have carpets and air-conditioning, which the 165s haven't got.

All the 165s are now fitted with a version of air conditioning that actually seems more effective/reliable than the original system fitted to the 166s from new!

 

[Thomas Jenkin]

From what I heard originally, the 769's were planned to be tri-mode and would allow express electric services to London Paddington as well as their diesel-only sections. Will this no longer be happening?

 

[JonathanH]

From what I heard originally, the 769's were planned to be tri-mode and would allow express electric services to London Paddington as well as their diesel-only sections. Will this no longer be happening?

It was never going to happen - there was no plan to run 769s into Paddington as there are 80x to run to both Bedwyn and Oxford - they would be hopelessly out of place in amongst the trains with better performance.

Having said that, there are a few late night Turbo workings into Paddington late each evening.

One of these is connected with getting the Greenford unit back to somewhere suitable - ie the sidings at Oxford.

The other, which works the 0030 to Oxford, from May appears to come from Oxford having worked from Basingstoke. If 769s are to take over Basingstoke workings perhaps there could eventually be a 769 working into Paddington late at night. However, the 769s need to turn up first before that could happen.

 

[Thomas Jenkin]

It was never going to happen - there was no plan to run 769s into Paddington as there are 80x to run to both Bedwyn and Oxford.

Ah yes of course. Thanks.

 

[Apedlar12]

There looks to be a 166 operating 2C93 tonight from Cardiff to Exeter (booked for a 158/9) and I believe that if it sticks to it's diagram, then it will end up on one of the Barnstaple diagrams tomorrow...

 

[JN114]

There looks to be a 166 operating 2C93 tonight from Cardiff to Exeter (booked for a 158/9) and I believe that if it sticks to it's diagram, then it will end up on one of the Barnstaple diagrams tomorrow...

I don’t think they’re cleared for for Barney yet...

 

[Apedlar12]

I don’t think they’re cleared for for Barney yet...

There was a test run last June overnight which 166208 did and then a few months ago, it was said on WNXX that they had now been cleared for Barnstaple and Exmouth so I think its just the issue of if there is enough train crew in the Exeter area that sign 16x yet or not; as there has been a few scenarios in the past where a turbo has been swapped on the night before getting to Exeter to a 150 or 158 at Bristol TM...

 

[Apedlar12]

There looks to be a 166 operating 2C93 tonight from Cardiff to Exeter (booked for a 158/9) and I believe that if it sticks to it's diagram, then it will end up on one of the Barnstaple diagrams tomorrow...

It was 166211 and it was sent back this morning on 2U06 from Exeter St Davids to Cardiff Central.

 

[timatheronwood]

It was 166211 and it was sent back this morning on 2U06 from Exeter St Davids to Cardiff Central.

What is happening to diagrams on the Bedwyn route. I keep seeing 16x but used to see only 80x. I thought 80x were for the service.

Also saw a 16x waiting on Towney loop to be overtaken by a 5 car 80x on Monday. Definitely an unusual working.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

What is happening to diagrams on the Bedwyn route. I keep seeing 16x but used to see only 80x. I thought 80x were for the service.

It’s an emergency timetable on the Bedwyn route related to the small pandemic we have going on out there.

It see Reading to Newbury shuttles and Paddington to Bedwyns merged into a Reading to Bedwyn shuttle, as the service doesn’t reach London where the 80x are based using Reading based turbos is more logical.