GWR Class 165/166 Turbo Diagrams

[Xavi]

It's a shame 2+4 HST's aren't permitted to Exmouth as a last resort, but think there was issues with Topsham and Exmouth stopping that.

Interesting, nothing obvious at those two stations. Would be fun to see it happen!

 

[REVUpminster]

A 2+4 HST has been to Exmouth. There probably is a record on the site. I think it fouled the level crossing at Topsham. There was a photo on Devon Live.

 

[Ashley Hill]

If the 2+4 had been held outside Topsham for the last up train to arrive first it would have had a green towards Exmouth. It would then not have to stop at a red and foul the crossing which it did for about 10 minutes or more. The issue at Exmouth was that when changing ends the driver would have to walk off the platform and climb into the front cab.

 

[Snow1964]

Clearly stock shortages today, a number of Cardiff-Portsmouth route trains are reduced to a two car unit, (both 158 and 165)

Virtually all of the trains via Bristol-Bath-Westbury corridor are also down to single unit. Feels like about third of the fleet is missing

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Clearly stock shortages today, a number of Cardiff-Portsmouth route trains are reduced to a two car unit, (both 158 and 165)

Virtually all of the trains via Bristol-Bath-Westbury corridor are also down to single unit. Feels like about third of the fleet is missing

Three single 150s on Exmouth Paignton as well, not that I believe 2-150 formations to be the massive crisis they’re made out to be

 

[REVUpminster]

The results of 2T07 being two cars might be felt in 9 months time. Someone will explain.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

No 166s on Exmouth services today, but one has sneaked onto Barnstaples.

Looks like 166219 is going to have a few days at Reading having gone up there on the weekly 3 car 16x changeover move this evening.

Ahh, that'll be nice for me when I take the North Downs Line then.

 

[Snow1964]

Todays 2072 Worcester-Weymouth is being operated by 2 x 2car 165s not the best choice for a journey of nearly 4 hours which includes request stops

Per real-time trains currently running 38 minutes late.

 

[RPI]

Todays 2072 Worcester-Weymouth is being operated by 2 x 2car 165s not the best choice for a journey of nearly 4 hours which includes request stops

Per real-time trains currently running 38 minutes late.

Thats booked formation, its fine, very few travel the whole route, much better than a 150/1 as it would have been before and with it being 165's the air cooling will probably work too.

The busiest section will be when half the population of Yeovil boards at Pen Mill.

 

[dmu fan]

Thats booked formation, its fine, very few travel the whole route, much better than a 150/1 as it would have been before and with it being 165's the air cooling will probably work too.

I travelled from cam/Dursley to Weymouth on this train recently. 3 hours.Had unit 165130. No idea on other 165.Was indeed air-cooled. The only thing that would have been nice would have been tables. Wifi and power socket worked fine.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Thats booked formation, its fine, very few travel the whole route, much better than a 150/1 as it would have been before and with it being 165's the air cooling will probably work too.

The busiest section will be when half the population of Yeovil boards at Pen Mill.

Indeed, it’s not very long since this would have just been a single 150/1 also with 2+3 seating and no air cooling so a pair of 165s is heading in the right direction.

 

[Jim]

Realtime Trains | 1L76 1259 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington | 06/08/2022

Real-time train running information for 1L76 1259 departure from Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington on 06/08/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Bit of a different jolly today

 

[Weekender]

Must have been cosy!!

 

[Kite159]

Must be a while since the last Turbo was in passenger service between Swindon & Didcot Parkway

 

[JN114]

Must be a while since the last Turbo was in passenger service between Swindon & Didcot Parkway

There have been a smattering of control-organised “outings” for Turbos, usually in very similar circumstances (no IET driver) over the past few years.

The big one was the Reading to Newport 166 shuttle that was run at the peak of the IET cracks fiasco last year, but there have been other occasions as well.

 

[CR165022]

3 166s out on Exmouth - Paignton today, 204, 207 & 212
158956 is also out on this route

 

[REVUpminster]

3 166s out on Exmouth - Paignton today, 204, 207 & 212
158956 is also out on this route

166210 was on Barnstaple and 158798 on Okehampton so a good day to me.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

166210 was on Barnstaple and 158798 on Okehampton so a good day to me.

Ideally 158956 and 166210 would have swapped, but I can appreciate that may not have been feasible.

 

[Snow1964]

Cardiff-Portsmouth is still seeing a random mix of units
2car, 3car, 4car, 5car

1F05 was 165 114
1F07 was 158 956 & 158 769
1F09 was 166 205 & 165 129
1F11 was 166 211
1F13 is 165 131 & 166 208
1F28 is 158 747 & 158 750
1F29 is 165 131

Is there any other line why some trains are 250% the length of others.

 

[JonathanH]

Is there any other line why some trains are 250% the length of others.

Yes, not uncommon to see 300% where 4 car and 12 car formations are used at different times of the day in the South East.

Presumably there aren't meant to actually be booked 2-car 165s operating alone on these services, and their use is due to a shortage of stock?

The difference between passenger experience on a 2-car 165 and a 5-car 158 formation is quite stark though, particularly since the inside of a 2-car 165 got messy.

Back when they had 16 first class and 170 standard class seats they were quite a straightforward travelling experience. Luggage backs, bike racks, the universal toilet, rearranged priority seating etc make them feel a lot less 'ordered'.

 

[Snow1964]

Presumably there aren't meant to actually be booked 2-car 165s operating alone on these services, and their use is due to a shortage of stock?

The difference between passenger experience on a 2-car 165 and a 5-car 158 formation is quite stark though, particularly since the inside of a 2-car 165 got messy.

Back when they had 16 first class and 170 standard class seats they were quite a straightforward travelling experience. Luggage backs, bike racks, the universal toilet, rearranged priority seating etc make them feel a lot less 'ordered'.

I do wonder why 3car 158s (the ones numbered 158 9xx) are appearing on Portsmouth-Cardiff

Not exactly an efficient layout having an extra driving car in the set, out of interest where are these actually supposed to be working, and is there really a need to split 2 car units and bodge extra 3 car units, especially as some trains are only 2car instead of 4car (which suggests there is a shortage of 2car units so reducing the quantity seems illogical).

.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I do wonder why 3car 158s (the ones numbered 158 7xx) are appearing on Portsmouth-Cardiff

Not exactly an efficient layout having an extra driving car in the set, out of interest where are these actually supposed to be working, and is there really a need to split 2 car units and bodge extra 3 car units, especially as some trains are only 2car instead of 4car (which suggests there is a shortage of 2car units so reducing the quantity seems illogical)

The 3 car 158 7xx you refer to is 158798 which is a 3 car set without a middle cab.

3 cars are the perfect match for the Barnstaple services, hence the small fleet of 3 car sets, the rest are in the 158 9xx series.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I do wonder why 3car 158s (the ones numbered 158 7xx) are appearing on Portsmouth-Cardiff

Not exactly an efficient layout having an extra driving car in the set, out of interest where are these actually supposed to be working, and is there really a need to split 2 car units and bodge extra 3 car units, especially as some trains are only 2car instead of 4car (which suggests there is a shortage of 2car units so reducing the quantity seems illogical)

The 3 car 158s are numbered 1589xx. GWR's 1587xx are the two carriage ones, apart from 798.

For the past year, the diagrams including 1330 & 1430 CDF PMH have been 4-158, and since May the diagram including 1530 CDF PMH is 5-158 - having said that, 1430 has been a 166 instead for the past few days. These are deliberately chosen diagrams that stay away from crowded Bristol during rush hour, and despite the 1530 coming close to it, it has the extra carriage to compensate.

3 cars are the perfect match for the Barnstaple services, hence the small fleet of 3 car sets, the rest are in the 158 9xx series.

Do the Barnstaples get sufficiently busy then? I always thought 3x23m seemed somewhat overkill, especially as so many 2-158 formations serve busy Bristol.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The 3 car 158s are numbered 1589xx. GWR's 1587xx are the two carriage ones, apart from 798.

For the past year, the diagrams including 1330 & 1430 CDF PMH have been 4-158, and since May the diagram including 1530 CDF PMH is 5-158 - having said that, 1430 has been a 166 instead for the past few days. These are deliberately chosen diagrams that stay away from crowded Bristol during rush hour, and despite the 1530 coming close to it, it has the extra carriage to compensate.


Do the Barnstaples get sufficiently busy then? I always thought 3x23m seemed somewhat overkill, especially as so many 2-158 formations serve busy Bristol.

3 car 158 formations are about spot on for the Barnstaple line, there’s a few standing passengers but the majority going all the way to Barnstaple will get a seat. 2 car subsituations leads to overcrowding.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I do wonder why 3car 158s (the ones numbered 158 7xx) are appearing on Portsmouth-Cardiff

Not exactly an efficient layout having an extra driving car in the set, out of interest where are these actually supposed to be working, and is there really a need to split 2 car units and bodge extra 3 car units, especially as some trains are only 2car instead of 4car (which suggests there is a shortage of 2car units so reducing the quantity seems illogical)

One reason is that Turbos are not cleared onto Cardiff Canton depot, and likely as not, never will be, as GWR drivers also don’t know the depot and TfW drivers aren't going to learn Turbos. Until replacement stock for the Cardiff-Portsmouth route appears, there will always be some residual 158 workings for this reason alone.

 

[RPI]

Do the Barnstaples get sufficiently busy then? I always thought 3x23m seemed somewhat overkill, especially as so many 2-158 formations serve busy Bristol

I'm a word, yes.

This time of year the daytime ones are very well loaded, usually with standing passengers after Crediton, though outside of school holidays the daytime ones are ok. In school term time the 07xx and 08xx from Barny are rammed with school kids, the 08xx more so college kids, there's a lot of long distance travellers on the line too so the 158 luggage racks come in useful.

Also in term time the 15xx, 16xx and 17xx from Exeter Central are rammed, 2 cars wouldn't be enough.

 

[Snow1964]

One reason is that Turbos are not cleared onto Cardiff Canton depot, and likely as not, never will be, as GWR drivers also don’t know the depot and TfW drivers aren't going to learn Turbos. Until replacement stock for the Cardiff-Portsmouth route appears, there will always be some residual 158 workings for this reason alone.

Thank you for explanation, but how did it come about that someone must have decided that 158s or 165 & 166 would be appropriate for Cardiff-Portsmouth even though there are clearly insufficient to operate every train.

It kind of feels like it was a temporary solution few years ago, that has sort of accidentally become permanent, as it doesn’t seem like a sensible long term plan.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Thank you for explanation, but how did it come about that someone must have decided that 158s or 165 & 166 would be appropriate for Cardiff-Portsmouth even though there are clearly insufficient to operate every train.

It kind of feels like it was a temporary solution few years ago, that has sort of accidentally become permanent, as it doesn’t seem like a sensible long term

Many routes over the years have a mix of rolling stock operating a route where there’s not enough of one type of rolling stock; 158s and 170s on the Highland main line, 313s and 377s on the Coastway etc.

Why doesn’t it seem sensible long term to have the higher capacity 16x units on Pompey/Cardiff trains which hit the Bristol Peaks and lower capacity 158s on the trains which don’t.

Also by having a mix allows Fratton depot to retain competency on both fleets which helps at times of disruption.

 

[davetheguard]

Do the Barnstaples get sufficiently busy then? I always thought 3x23m seemed somewhat overkill

I'm a word, yes.

I saw the 18.21 to Barnstaple pull out of Exeter St. David's yesterday evening. It was formed of a 2 car 150 and was very full, with people standing in all the vestibules and down the middle of the front coach too.

Hopefully, it may have got slightly easier after Crediton; if not people will have had to stand all the way.

A three car Turbo would have been very welcome on this particular service!

 

[RPI]

I saw the 18.21 to Barnstaple pull out of Exeter St. David's yesterday evening. It was formed of a 2 car 150 and was very full, with people standing in all the vestibules and down the middle of the front coach too.

Hopefully, it may have got slightly easier after Crediton; if not people will have had to stand all the way.

A three car Turbo would have been very welcome on this particular service!

Funny enough, thats actually booked as a 2 car 150! Comes in from Okehampton and goes back out as the barny as the 158 from the previous Barny carries on to Axminster