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GWR Class 800

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800001

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Is the 800 permitted to run on electric anywhere on the ECML at the moment? I've seen them a few times doing testing runs, but only ever running on diesel.

They were/are prevented from running on electric from Northallerton - Scottish Border, due to electrical interference.
Unsure if sortes yet.
 

Charlie M.

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I spent a day riding 800s yesterday, and I know this will be an unpopular opinion but they are my fave route train (when in full formation/everything’s working)

The air con is fabulous and the trolley is helpful rather than wobbling up the train. The toilets are clean, spacious and wide, and I personally find the seats comfortable for my back problems. They accelerate a lot faster and we were at stations for up to 6 minutes waiting for the departure time.

I like them!
 

samuelmorris

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Is that 6 minutes early though? There are quite a few stops on GWR with very long booked dwell times (9 mins on the one I traveled on I believe)
 

Dave1987

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I spent a day riding 800s yesterday, and I know this will be an unpopular opinion but they are my fave route train (when in full formation/everything’s working)

The air con is fabulous and the trolley is helpful rather than wobbling up the train. The toilets are clean, spacious and wide, and I personally find the seats comfortable for my back problems. They accelerate a lot faster and we were at stations for up to 6 minutes waiting for the departure time.

I like them!

Sorry but in my opinion they damn well should be absolutely fantastic! And they are mediocre at best considering the advances in technology over what they are replacing and the sheer cost of them. I would rather go to a full buffet with a wide range of products and a decent cup of tea/coffee rather than the luke warm instant rubbish available from a trolley. Plus at a buffet they have fridges so can have fresh sandwiches etc. So I have to disagree with you.
 

Thunderer

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Sorry but in my opinion they damn well should be absolutely fantastic! And they are mediocre at best considering the advances in technology over what they are replacing and the sheer cost of them. I would rather go to a full buffet with a wide range of products and a decent cup of tea/coffee rather than the luke warm instant rubbish available from a trolley. Plus at a buffet they have fridges so can have fresh sandwiches etc. So I have to disagree with you.
I took a pair of 800's yesterday between South Wales and Bristol Parkway and another pair back to South Wales in the evening. The first thing that hit me when I boarded BOTH trains was the smell of sewage, it even kept wafting through the air conditioning throughout both journeys making the train smell like a drain. Surely they must have a way of cracking this issue for trains with retention tanks? I also took a Voyager down south and that too stank like a cesspit. All in all it was an unpleasant day of travel for me, when travelling by train used to be such a lovely experience. It was an uncomfortable, smelly journey. If that is the future of rail travel, then very regretably, I will be resorting to my car and driving the longer distances, which is something I have always avoided, its a sad day for rail travel as I think more and more people will start to think the same way.
 

IanXC

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I took a pair of 800's yesterday between South Wales and Bristol Parkway and another pair back to South Wales in the evening. The first thing that hit me when I boarded BOTH trains was the smell of sewage, it even kept wafting through the air conditioning throughout both journeys making the train smell like a drain. Surely they must have a way of cracking this issue for trains with retention tanks? I also took a Voyager down south and that too stank like a cesspit. All in all it was an unpleasant day of travel for me, when travelling by train used to be such a lovely experience. It was an uncomfortable, smelly journey. If that is the future of rail travel, then very regretably, I will be resorting to my car and driving the longer distances, which is something I have always avoided, its a sad day for rail travel as I think more and more people will start to think the same way.

I must disagree! I have never even had the slightest suggestion of a sewage smell while on an 800.

Sorry but in my opinion they damn well should be absolutely fantastic! And they are mediocre at best considering the advances in technology over what they are replacing and the sheer cost of them. I would rather go to a full buffet with a wide range of products and a decent cup of tea/coffee rather than the luke warm instant rubbish available from a trolley. Plus at a buffet they have fridges so can have fresh sandwiches etc. So I have to disagree with you.

Have you been served by such a trolley? It really isn't the traditional style of onboard trolley, more akin to how trolleys are used in first class in my opinion.
 

fgwrich

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I must disagree! I have never even had the slightest suggestion of a sewage smell while on an 800.



Have you been served by such a trolley? It really isn't the traditional style of onboard trolley, more akin to how trolleys are used in first class in my opinion.

I have to agree with the statements made about the trolleys, going from one of the best HST Buffets around to the very poor offerings put out by the trolleys in my opinion just adds to another piece of the decline of GWR. The last time I was on an 800 (2 weeks ago) what they could fit on the trolley appeared to have just been chucked on there in haste, and most of the sandwiches seemed to fall off either when a customer wanted something from the trolley or when the 800 hit a jolt in the track (I was above the bogie).

Smell wise, I have experienced a little bit of a toilet smell from them, that was in the vestibule area only though and from having to stand there for 2 hours on a very fully loaded 5 car vice 10 on a very warm day. I wouldn't say it was as bad as the Voyagers though. Although, speaking of the toilet area - another little design feature I'm not impressed with is the whole sink area - the tap very close to the door handle which usually ends up either soaking wet, or if the tap is as temperamental as the desiro's, spills the water over the edge of the sink and onto the floor.
 

Thunderer

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I must disagree! I have never even had the slightest suggestion of a sewage smell while on an 800.



Have you been served by such a trolley? It really isn't the traditional style of onboard trolley, more akin to how trolleys are used in first class in my opinion.
You may disagree, but I know what I experienced yesterday on board the two 800 services, and it wasn't a shaft of wit, more like a waft of sh&t! (Especially in the vestibule area). Some people have a better sense of smell than others, just the same as some have better vision than others, so its common sense to say some will smell these odours and some may not. One other thing my missus noticed yesterday was that the arm rests are too low on the seats and I'm inclined to agree with her on that one. I think the inside and the seats let this train down badly compared to the inside of a Mark III coach (Especially First Class) and I'm not too keen on underfloor engine noise either, no matter how loud or quiet it is. To be honest, its a step backwards in style and comfort from a HST, but in these privatised, greedy, grabbing times we live in, it will suit train operators down to the ground at the expense of the passenger experience. I'm aware people will say "most people won't care" and that is a true statement because most people accept anything these days, even if it is a de-improvement.
 

Thunderer

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I have to agree with the statements made about the trolleys, going from one of the best HST Buffets around to the very poor offerings put out by the trolleys in my opinion just adds to another piece of the decline of GWR. The last time I was on an 800 (2 weeks ago) what they could fit on the trolley appeared to have just been chucked on there in haste, and most of the sandwiches seemed to fall off either when a customer wanted something from the trolley or when the 800 hit a jolt in the track (I was above the bogie).

Smell wise, I have experienced a little bit of a toilet smell from them, that was in the vestibule area only though and from having to stand there for 2 hours on a very fully loaded 5 car vice 10 on a very warm day. I wouldn't say it was as bad as the Voyagers though. Although, speaking of the toilet area - another little design feature I'm not impressed with is the whole sink area - the tap very close to the door handle which usually ends up either soaking wet, or if the tap is as temperamental as the desiro's, spills the water over the edge of the sink and onto the floor.
Thank you..some one else with a sense of smell, so it wasn't just me immagining it then? Somehow yesterday, that smell was coming into my coach via the air conditioning system. Not sure how, but everytime we had a blast of cooler air it came with a nice lavatory smell too, just what I needed when drinking my coffee and eating a biscuit off the poorly stacked trolley ha..
 

IanXC

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I have to agree with the statements made about the trolleys, going from one of the best HST Buffets around to the very poor offerings put out by the trolleys in my opinion just adds to another piece of the decline of GWR. The last time I was on an 800 (2 weeks ago) what they could fit on the trolley appeared to have just been chucked on there in haste, and most of the sandwiches seemed to fall off either when a customer wanted something from the trolley or when the 800 hit a jolt in the track (I was above the bogie).

Smell wise, I have experienced a little bit of a toilet smell from them, that was in the vestibule area only though and from having to stand there for 2 hours on a very fully loaded 5 car vice 10 on a very warm day. I wouldn't say it was as bad as the Voyagers though. Although, speaking of the toilet area - another little design feature I'm not impressed with is the whole sink area - the tap very close to the door handle which usually ends up either soaking wet, or if the tap is as temperamental as the desiro's, spills the water over the edge of the sink and onto the floor.

You may disagree, but I know what I experienced yesterday on board the two 800 services, and it wasn't a shaft of wit, more like a waft of sh&t! (Especially in the vestibule area). Some people have a better sense of smell than others, just the same as some have better vision than others, so its common sense to say some will smell these odours and some may not. One other thing my missus noticed yesterday was that the arm rests are too low on the seats and I'm inclined to agree with her on that one. I think the inside and the seats let this train down badly compared to the inside of a Mark III coach (Especially First Class) and I'm not too keen on underfloor engine noise either, no matter how loud or quiet it is. To be honest, its a step backwards in style and comfort from a HST, but in these privatised, greedy, grabbing times we live in, it will suit train operators down to the ground at the expense of the passenger experience. I'm aware people will say "most people won't care" and that is a true statement because most people accept anything these days, even if it is a de-improvement.

The last trolley service I saw involved Sandwiches and hot food being ordered, and then delivered direct to peoples seats. There was one person taking the trolley down, and another periodically retrieving a list of orders from the trolley and delivering orders to peoples seats. Its a very different way of working than GWR have used historically so I can well believe its taking some bedding in, but having seen it work well, I struggle with the idea that its is an ongoing downgrade.

I generally have a pretty sensitive sense of smell, and in 13 Cl800 journeys, that is my honest opinion. Perhaps the hot weather is the differing factor.
 

Dai Corner

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I'm speculating, but maybe the nasty smells are from effluent dumped on the track from preceding trains? I can imagine that it might be made worse by the current hot weather. Where are the air intakes on the 800s?
 

D1009

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The last trolley service I saw involved Sandwiches and hot food being ordered, and then delivered direct to peoples seats. There was one person taking the trolley down, and another periodically retrieving a list of orders from the trolley and delivering orders to peoples seats. Its a very different way of working than GWR have used historically so I can well believe its taking some bedding in, but having seen it work well, I struggle with the idea that its is an ongoing downgrade.

I generally have a pretty sensitive sense of smell, and in 13 Cl800 journeys, that is my honest opinion. Perhaps the hot weather is the differing factor.
Are the trolleys still double manned, then? I travelled from Bristol Parkway to Swindon on one yesterday, and there was only one person operating the trolley. Whilst it has always been claimed by GWR that hot food is available, it is not clearly advertised on the trains, so you wouldn't know unless you asked.
 

gallafent

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23 Dec 2010
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May I respectfully suggest that the Great Western Electrification thread in the infrastructure sub forum is the more appropriate place to discuss this topic.

Yes, apologies, posted a follow-on after mention of 387s to Oxford here rather than in the electrification thread without thinking to move the discussion there! Don't think I can move the posts though, probably only moderators can do that!
 

DLJ

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Hello, long time listener, first time caller.

First off - I do like the 800s, although I won't see the best of them on the GWML until the wires reach Temple Meads (or Parkway at least).

The one slightly odd issue I've noticed is with the power supplied to the sockets for customer use. When running on diesel my phone charges and works normally, but when running on electric the phone will take a charge but behaves strangely - constantly switching between screens / input types etc.

It goes back to normal as soon as I unplug the power, so I'm assuming it's an issue with the 240v supply. Anyone else encountered this?
 

broadgage

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Hello, long time listener, first time caller.

First off - I do like the 800s, although I won't see the best of them on the GWML until the wires reach Temple Meads (or Parkway at least).

The one slightly odd issue I've noticed is with the power supplied to the sockets for customer use. When running on diesel my phone charges and works normally, but when running on electric the phone will take a charge but behaves strangely - constantly switching between screens / input types etc.

It goes back to normal as soon as I unplug the power, so I'm assuming it's an issue with the 240v supply. Anyone else encountered this?

Welcome.
I doubt that the power source used to move the train would have any affect on the 240 volts supplied for customer use. This would be from a static inverter with well regulated output, and probably a battery in the circuit as well.
Also your phone charger is almost certainly designed to operate over a very wide range of input voltages so as to permit use on ANY mains supply worldwide.
More likely to be radio frequency interference, possibly picked up by the charging lead acting as an antenna.
 

DLJ

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Thanks for the welcome, and the reply. You may well be right, I recall from earlier in the thread that there have been radio frequency issues over this section.

A bit more info - the issue occurs on leaving Paddington, and clears after Didcot, and occurs after Moreton cutting in the opposite direction. Only happens on 800s (I travel regularly Temple Meads - Three Bridges, never had this issue on HST or other stock).
 

JN114

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The mobile phone symptom described is a bit of a red herring - at least its highlighted by the train and its traction mode but not necessarily caused by it - because I’ve gotten it at home in a previous (new build) house I rented but not currently in my 1950s semi.

Looking it up at the time it’s improper grounding at certain power levels when you have a case on a touch screen phone. I found taking my phone out of its case while charging cured the issue.

I too noted the difference when on HST vs IET; but interestingly has gone away since I upgraded to my latest generation iPhone.
 

Jimini

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Thanks for the welcome, and the reply. You may well be right, I recall from earlier in the thread that there have been radio frequency issues over this section.

A bit more info - the issue occurs on leaving Paddington, and clears after Didcot, and occurs after Moreton cutting in the opposite direction. Only happens on 800s (I travel regularly Temple Meads - Three Bridges, never had this issue on HST or other stock).

I've noticed this too, although I only travel from Paddington > Swindon and it seems to happen the entire way. I've stopped charging my phone on the 800s now as it renders it useless while plugged in!
 
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No they are paid for by the TOCs, and owned by 'Agility trains' which is part owned by Hitachi, but they are specified by the DfT

Did the TOCs pay for them or are they being paid for by the TOCs? Or did Agility Trains build them as an investment?

Thanks for confirming that the DfT set the specifications for them.
 

coppercapped

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Did the TOCs pay for them or are they being paid for by the TOCs? Or did Agility Trains build them as an investment?

Thanks for confirming that the DfT set the specifications for them.
The trains in the IEP contracts were specified by the DfT.

The design, development, manufacture and testing of the trains and the construction of the assembly plant in Newton Aycliffe[1] was paid for by Hitachi using its own and, mostly, borrowed money. The construction/modification of the depots was paid for by Agility Trains which also carries out all maintenance and cleaning.

The TOCs pay Agility Trains for each completed diagram - with adjustments for short formations/not properly presented trains/etc. The TOC is obliged to get a specific train back to its pre-determined maintenance depot at the end of the diagram - if it doesn't further adjustments are made.
The payments are set down in the various DfT/Agility Trains contracts. The TOCs make the payments to Agility Trains but these payments are guaranteed by the DfT for the duration of the contract - in this case for 27 1/2 years.

[1] There was government/local government 'sweetener' made in connection with the construction of the plant.
 
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Thank you.

So although First / GWR took on the contract knowing what they were getting - they had next to no input into the train design either from an engenerjnv point of view or a customer comfort/facility point of view?
 
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