• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Heading into autumn - what next?

Status
Not open for further replies.

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,686
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
One of the local GPs got caught out marking people down as "no answer" when they tried phoning. Only because they let the phone ring for less than 5 seconds before hanging up and moving onto the next caller.

And then they wonder why the local A&E is busy

I suspect this is exactly the reason why A&E is reportedly busy.

The issue of GP access has been a salient one for months, yet I’ve barely heard anyone within the NHS come out with anything serious in an attempt to address it.

One can’t help but get the feeling this is another case of Covid being used as an excuse to push ahead with other agendas. Certainly at my surgery GP access has been going downhill for some years now.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

35B

Established Member
Joined
19 Dec 2011
Messages
2,295
What do you suggest?
I’m not sure, and I suspect the school will have little scope for change. But if levels are that high, then the school are providing an unhealthy environment, regardless of Covid. Sick building syndrome isn’t so often mentioned lately, but excessive CO2 is a factor in that.
<2000 what ? CO2 is usually measured in parts-per-million (ppm). Most sources say that levels should be kept below 1000 ppm. 4000 ppm would not be good.
I presume ppm, but no units of measure were quoted.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,824
Location
Yorks
I was caught in conversation by a randomer at the bus station yesterday.

He was convinced that there was going to be another lockdown over Christmas (unlikely), he was coonvinced that the vaccines weren't working (they are, very well actually) and that people are still dieing after receiving it (they are, but in far smaller numbers).

This rather illustrates the sorts of doubts being sown in the general publics mind by the barrage of pro-restriction calls.
 

duncanp

Established Member
Joined
16 Aug 2012
Messages
4,856



Full article available online now.

Oh dear, the locktivists won't like facts like this getting in the way of their scaremongering.

I think these paragraphs from the article are really important, and are worth emphasising:-

Experts said if the models were correct, then it would do little good to bring in restrictions at this stage, and would be better for long-term immunity to allow the virus to spread.

Paul Hunter, Professor in Medicine, at the University of East Anglia, said: “There are times when delaying is really valuable, but there comes a point when restrictions have no value because you’ve got as much protection as you’re going to get, so you end up putting it off to a point where you lose immunity.

You probably won't see Professor Hunter on the BBC or Locktivist Sky News any time soon.

These expert opinions will enable the government to stand firm against all the locktivist prophets of doom, so I am more hopeful that we can avoid restrictions for the time being.
 

adc82140

Established Member
Joined
10 May 2008
Messages
2,928
Good to see at least some media outlets reporting that endemic equilibrium is what we are aiming for and that we may not be that far off.
I can hear the government conversations now. "booster vaccinations are sluggish, let's seed the idea of new lockdowns in the media. Wheel out some attention seeking scientists to back it up"

Suddenly we see record take ups of boosters.

"Jolly good, our friends at the Telegraph can tell everyone it's all going to be fine. And we've made Starmer look silly as well"
 

kez19

Established Member
Joined
15 May 2020
Messages
2,038
Location
Dundee
My daughter’s classroom was fitted with a CO2 monitor recently. A “green” reading is <2000; hers was 4000.

I have plenty of times suffered airless rooms, where I’ve felt tired and inattentive regardless of my underlying state. That they also act as traps for airborne disease (and not just Covid) shows how poor some architecture is, and the costs that it imposes.

I will be asking the school what their plans are in the longer term, as rooms like that are not fit for purpose.

So how does this work for businesses? Are the UK/Scottish Governments offering incentives or? I don’t know here I’m just wondering?
 

duncanp

Established Member
Joined
16 Aug 2012
Messages
4,856
"Jolly good, our friends at the Telegraph can tell everyone it's all going to be fine. And we've made Starmer look silly as well"

I think Sir Keir Starmer does quite agood job of making himself look silly, without any help from the government or the Daily Telegraph.
 

Yew

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2011
Messages
6,538
Location
UK
I suspect this is exactly the reason why A&E is reportedly busy.

The issue of GP access has been a salient one for months, yet I’ve barely heard anyone within the NHS come out with anything serious in an attempt to address it.

One can’t help but get the feeling this is another case of Covid being used as an excuse to push ahead with other agendas. Certainly at my surgery GP access has been going downhill for some years now.
Maybe it's time to properly nationalise GP's, so they have consistent standards, facilities and practices; and can leverage economies of scale. They're not quite as bad as dentists, but it feels like for the last 75 years we've been in a stop-gap measure, where GP surgeries are still a cottage industry underneath.
 

DustyBin

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
3,613
Location
First Class
I can hear the government conversations now. "booster vaccinations are sluggish, let's seed the idea of new lockdowns in the media. Wheel out some attention seeking scientists to back it up"

Suddenly we see record take ups of boosters.

"Jolly good, our friends at the Telegraph can tell everyone it's all going to be fine. And we've made Starmer look silly as well"

I think it’s very possible that this is what’s happening, although it may backfire especially if and when the boosters are offered to younger groups. In which case they could always bring up the issue of vaccine passports again I suppose…

I think Sir Keir Starmer does quite agood job of making himself look silly, without any help from the government or the Daily Telegraph.

He’s proven himself rather adept at one thing at least!

I was caught in conversation by a randomer at the bus station yesterday.

He was convinced that there was going to be another lockdown over Christmas (unlikely), he was coonvinced that the vaccines weren't working (they are, very well actually) and that people are still dieing after receiving it (they are, but in far smaller numbers).

This rather illustrates the sorts of doubts being sown in the general publics mind by the barrage of pro-restriction calls.

This is the problem. Whilst we analyse, dissect and debate on here (to the best of our abilities anyway!) there are an awful lot of people who tune into BBC News each evening and take whatever they’re told as gospel. People are easily misled unfortunately. I’ve had discussions with family members who fall into this category; it’s like they’re living in a parallel world at times. A classic example was “there are a lot of young people dying of covid too” when in fact there aren’t by any measure. At this stage I don’t think things will change unfortunately.
 
Last edited:

big_rig

Member
Joined
21 Aug 2020
Messages
394
Location
London
What do you suggest?


The vaccines will get us out of this; try to ignore the vaccine effectiveness deniers who want to impose restrictions.
From what I can tell ‘we need more ventilation’ is code for ‘lockdown until the very simple and rapid task of retrofitting literally every single building in Britain is complete.’
 

DustyBin

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
3,613
Location
First Class
From what I can tell ‘we need more ventilation’ is code for ‘lockdown until the very simple and rapid task of retrofitting literally every single building in Britain is complete.’

All against a backdrop of rising fuel costs of course!
 

nlogax

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
5,352
Location
Mostly Glasgow-ish. Mostly.
Cases running rampant through the school population to the point of herd immunity in that part of society means we'll be seeing falling cases over the next few weeks, and even the government seem to acknowledge it. And to think some were espousing more lockdowns.
 

DustyBin

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
3,613
Location
First Class
Cases running rampant through the school population to the point of herd immunity in that part of society means we'll be seeing falling cases over the next few weeks, and even the government seem to acknowledge it. And to think some were espousing more lockdowns.

I’m not convinced that those calling for restrictions are doing so in the interests of public health to be honest!
 

adc82140

Established Member
Joined
10 May 2008
Messages
2,928
Cases running rampant through the school population to the point of herd immunity in that part of society means we'll be seeing falling cases over the next few weeks, and even the government seem to acknowledge it. And to think some were espousing more lockdowns.
Fancy that. It's behaving like every other human coronavirus and rhinovirus does in the autumn term. I wonder what Ferguson et Al are saying now.
 

35B

Established Member
Joined
19 Dec 2011
Messages
2,295
So how does this work for businesses? Are the UK/Scottish Governments offering incentives or? I don’t know here I’m just wondering?
I’d be asking that question of anywhere; it’s a failure of building codes that they’ve been allowed to be built with so little ventilation and air circulation, but it’s for the organisation to address the problem. It just happens, in my daughter’s school’s case anyway, to be Covid that has highlighted the issue.

And, no, government isn’t offering incentives to fix the problem - right now, the way VAT works, fixing it would be taxed, whereas building new would not be. But that takes us elsewhere.
 

initiation

Member
Joined
10 Nov 2014
Messages
432
On the DWP 'find a job' website are two adverts for Call Handlers. The summaries say "We are looking to recruit candidates to join a brand new team to assist with the roll out of vaccine passports." https://findajob.dwp.gov.uk/details/7123373?v=1&nid=1299991&utm_source=alerts&utm_medium=email&utm_content=5&utm_campaign=Alerts_23_05_21 https://findajob.dwp.gov.uk/details/718256
The last few days have made me super depressed about the calls for more restrictions. Stuff like this seems to make it inevitable.
 

Attachments

  • 1635154214023.png
    1635154214023.png
    1.8 MB · Views: 57
Last edited by a moderator:

Cdd89

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2017
Messages
1,451
Rolling out vaccine passports is super complicated (What’s the exemption process? How are foreign visitors’ passports domesticated? What are the ID requirements? How should fraud be reported? Also the need to scale up the process for handling those whose vaccinations haven’t been successfully recorded, currently less of a problem).

All this stuff, incidentally, is reason enough to avoid them and other counties have made a mess of it (and I don’t see our government doing much better!). But if we are considering implementing them, it makes sense we’ll need all the infrastructure ready to go. I don’t think it’s a sign they’re definitely coming (even though I am resigned to them, for different reasons).
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,039

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
6,870
I suspect this is exactly the reason why A&E is reportedly busy.

The issue of GP access has been a salient one for months, yet I’ve barely heard anyone within the NHS come out with anything serious in an attempt to address it.

One can’t help but get the feeling this is another case of Covid being used as an excuse to push ahead with other agendas. Certainly at my surgery GP access has been going downhill for some years now.

Yes, I do wonder whether (despite the left being the most vocal) a lot of this is being pushed by neoliberals who want to cut things back in the health service. It seems the same sort of right-wing politics which has you stuck on the phone for 30 minutes if you want to talk to a utility, or this practice where utilities and the like don't want to provide email support and hide their email address about 30 layers of web pages deep.

One theory also is that lockdown, in general, is being pushed, at the end of the day, by right-wingers who want to see small businesses going bankrupt and multinationals taking over everything. And some on the left, because they instinctively believe in the (IMO unrealistic) 'Covid Zero' target, go along with it.

It's just a theory, with no hard evidence, but knowing the general state of politics in English-speaking countries in particular, it really wouldn't surprise me.
 
Last edited:

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,824
Location
Yorks
Yes, I do wonder whether (despite the left being the most vocal) a lot of this is being pushed by neoliberals who want to cut things back in the health service. It seems the same sort of right-wing politics which has you stuck on the phone for 30 minutes if you want to talk to a utility, or this practice where utilities and the like don't want to provide email support and hide their email address about 30 layers of web pages deep.

One theory also is that lockdown, in general, is being pushed, at the end of the day, by right-wingers who want to see small businesses going bankrupt and multinationals taking over everything. And some on the left, because they instinctively believe in the (IMO unrealistic) 'Covid Zero' target, go along with it.

It's just a theory, with no hard evidence, but knowing the general state of politics in English-speaking countries in particular, it really wouldn't surprise me.

I'm not sure where the motivation for the right wing to destroy small businesses in favour of multi-nationals would come from. For a government, such businesses tend to do as they're told, pay up when required and soak up plenty of employment at home, areas where multinationals aren't always so conscientious.
 

Yew

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2011
Messages
6,538
Location
UK
I'm not sure where the motivation for the right wing to destroy small businesses in favour of multi-nationals would come from. For a government, such businesses tend to do as they're told, pay up when required and soak up plenty of employment at home, areas where multinationals aren't always so conscientious.
Typically small businesses do not make large donations to the Conservative party.
 

kez19

Established Member
Joined
15 May 2020
Messages
2,038
Location
Dundee
I’d be asking that question of anywhere; it’s a failure of building codes that they’ve been allowed to be built with so little ventilation and air circulation, but it’s for the organisation to address the problem. It just happens, in my daughter’s school’s case anyway, to be Covid that has highlighted the issue.

And, no, government isn’t offering incentives to fix the problem - right now, the way VAT works, fixing it would be taxed, whereas building new would not be. But that takes us elsewhere.

So in other words businesses pay, yet I could say in terms of myself at school I didn’t see anyone complaining about ventilation but suddenly we care? (how strange)
 

DustyBin

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
3,613
Location
First Class
Yes, I do wonder whether (despite the left being the most vocal) a lot of this is being pushed by neoliberals who want to cut things back in the health service. It seems the same sort of right-wing politics which has you stuck on the phone for 30 minutes if you want to talk to a utility, or this practice where utilities and the like don't want to provide email support and hide their email address about 30 layers of web pages deep.

One theory also is that lockdown, in general, is being pushed, at the end of the day, by right-wingers who want to see small businesses going bankrupt and multinationals taking over everything. And some on the left, because they instinctively believe in the (IMO unrealistic) 'Covid Zero' target, go along with it.

It's just a theory, with no hard evidence, but knowing the general state of politics in English-speaking countries in particular, it really wouldn't surprise me.

If you're going to go down the "conspiracy" theory route I think you're far better off considering climate change as a driver for at least part of our pandemic response. I honestly think we're heading for some dramatic and not necessarily positive changes to the way we live, and to facilitate these changes an unprecedented level of government control is required as people won't make these changes voluntarily. Some people believe we may be heading for a social credit type system; if that is actually the case personally I think it will come with a "green" twist. I very much hope I'm wrong!
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,824
Location
Yorks
Typically small businesses do not make large donations to the Conservative party.

A political party can have all the donations in the world, but it still needs to be voted in. Small business owners are one of the Tories key demographics.
 

NorthKent1989

Established Member
Joined
13 May 2017
Messages
1,898
Just remember, "Thank you NHS, you're amazing".

A bit like a relative of mine who had constant chest pains for several days. Couldn't get through to the surgery for two days, on the third got told could only have a telephone consultation if serious (how ever that might be defined), then got a bollocking from the doctor during the 1-minute chat for it apparently not being serious enough to merit a consultation, and was told to "eat more fruit". Still got the pains, and has essentially given up and hoping for the best. Thanks NHS.

One does wonder if at some point someone might be able to mount a successful lawsuit for negligence. I wonder if it might happen over, for example, someone who caught Covid in an NHS setting, or someone who died after an issue wasn't diagnosed early enough. There must be plenty of instances.

I mean if I’d have had an asthma attack if the Dr’s refused to give my prescription then there’s a case of possible medical negligence
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,039
Yes, I do wonder whether (despite the left being the most vocal) a lot of this is being pushed by neoliberals who want to cut things back in the health service. It seems the same sort of right-wing politics which has you stuck on the phone for 30 minutes if you want to talk to a utility, or this practice where utilities and the like don't want to provide email support and hide their email address about 30 layers of web pages deep.

One theory also is that lockdown, in general, is being pushed, at the end of the day, by right-wingers who want to see small businesses going bankrupt and multinationals taking over everything. And some on the left, because they instinctively believe in the (IMO unrealistic) 'Covid Zero' target, go along with it.

It's just a theory, with no hard evidence, but knowing the general state of politics in English-speaking countries in particular, it really wouldn't surprise me.
As regards the NHS, I don't doubt for a second that the government is entirely focused on political advantage in the way they are treating the NHS. They constantly use it as a shield to defend their incompetence and possible grift on Covid. Equally they are encouraging people to blame Covid and doctors for GP shortages, rather than the 10 year long failure to train and recruit enough GPs to replace those leaving. They are absolutely prepping the NHS to look inadequate and weak, and to blame the concept of public provision for those failings.
 

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
6,870
As regards the NHS, I don't doubt for a second that the government is entirely focused on political advantage in the way they are treating the NHS. They constantly use it as a shield to defend their incompetence and possible grift on Covid. Equally they are encouraging people to blame Covid and doctors for GP shortages, rather than the 10 year long failure to train and recruit enough GPs to replace those leaving. They are absolutely prepping the NHS to look inadequate and weak, and to blame the concept of public provision for those failings.

That really wouldn't surprise me.
It's strange how (IMX) the NHS has gone downhill since Cameron got in.
 
Last edited:

Bikeman78

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2018
Messages
4,495
I’ve had discussions with family members who fall into this category; it’s like they’re living in a parallel world at times. A classic example was “there are a lot of young people dying of covid too” when in fact there aren’t by any measure. At this stage I don’t think things will change unfortunately.
More young people get killed by cars. I trust that none of your worried family members drive?
 

DustyBin

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
3,613
Location
First Class
More young people get killed by cars. I trust that none of your worried family members drive?

Exactly, and I did point this out to them. Unfortunately the propaganda (and that's what it is) has led to the perceived risk being completely detached from the reality.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top