Heathrow Western Access comes to a Standstill

[Meerkat]

A western approach to LHR would benefit most of the rest of the country apart from the south-east. I guess that's why it's a low priority?

I can’t see that the western approach has any significant benefits for anyone other than a tight locality.
Southern approach has greater benefits for more people.

 

[Ianno87]

I can’t see that the western approach has any significant benefits for anyone other than a tight locality.
Southern approach has greater benefits for more people.

Simplistically, a Western Approach only benefits the locations served directly - most likely Slough/Maidenhead/Reading.

For everywhere else, all it's doing is moving a single change of train at Old Oak Common to a single change of train at Reading, and perhaps a fractionally better journey time.

Southern access on the other hand, makes rail access feasible for the first time for a whole swathe of Surrey and Hampshire.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Business flying is likely to be permanently impacted by Zoom though, as technology has shown that much of it's not necessary

Never mind the environmental impact

a) It's a lot cheaper to use video conferencing technology, instead of expensive flights
b) Who would choose to get up at 5am for an early morning flight to Frankfurt for a 2 hour meeting, or fly to New York for a meeting, then fly back overnight, if you can do it all from the office or even your home study?

That companies can boast about their environmental conscience, but cutting down on business travel, is a bonus too!

And of course, this applies to ALL travel. Why take a train to Newcastle or Plymouth for a routine 1 hour meeting, when you can do it on Zoom?

By reducing the cost of long-distance meetings, you make it more likely you'll create long-distance connections which in turn then increase the need for long distance transport. Eventually, it's better to be in the same room as someone. The internet and teleconferencing has been around for decades now, especially for the sorts of businesses which send people across the Atlantic for a meeting. So, overall demand might increase but the pattern of how often each person travels might not. Instead of going over for a single day, you'd go over for a week of solid meetings less frequently.

Heathrow is the local airport for a vast swathe of the south east and south central England. Not having good rail links to it doesn't make a lot of sense. As a trip generator it should be more than capable of justifying new infrastructure like the western and southern access. The only real dispute seems to be about who is going to pay for it. Having Heathrow as a private business is a fairly unusual arrangement - most other countries have the state run the airport, or use a concession model to operate it while they still manage the long term infrastructure side.

 

[Horizon22]

Well for starters my suggestion is closer to the airport than OOC and knocks off the need for a southern link to Heathrow.

Not by much. A completely new station is being built specifically with interchange and connectivity in mind. Yes it will require some doubling back, but in the grand scheme of things it is not much. The Western link is obviously ideal (that being said it hasn't been anywhere but "standstill" for last 18 months!) but in the interim, this is a decent enough option.

 

[SynthD]

Is the preference for routes from different mainlines to not overlap still strong? The idea of a through service, eg Paddington to Woking, is unappealing to me for reasons I’ve learned on this forum. If the remaining gwr stoppers are staying around then merge them with Hex, ie Pad, Ooc, Hx, Maidenhead, Reading.

Crossrail dedicated tracks to a Staines terminus sounds like it would be compatible with the informal rule. But there’s too much water to tunnel from NW Staines to Byfleet, with new fast line platforms, for good SW access to the improved Staines.

 

[Mikey C]

By reducing the cost of long-distance meetings, you make it more likely you'll create long-distance connections which in turn then increase the need for long distance transport. Eventually, it's better to be in the same room as someone. The internet and teleconferencing has been around for decades now, especially for the sorts of businesses which send people across the Atlantic for a meeting. So, overall demand might increase but the pattern of how often each person travels might not. Instead of going over for a single day, you'd go over for a week of solid meetings less frequently.

Technology might have been there, but the pandemic forced people to use it, and get used to it. And the accountants will appreciate the saving too

And if individuals say fly to the US twice a year and stay longer, instead of monthly for short trips, that's 2 return flights a year out of Heathrow instead of 12

 

[Grumpy Git]

Technology might have been there, but the pandemic forced people to use it, and get used to it. And the accountants will appreciate the saving too

And if individuals say fly to the US twice a year and stay longer, instead of monthly for short trips, that's 2 return flights a year out of Heathrow instead of 12

How many of those 12 trips are nothing more than a tarted-up jolly?

The Western approach should have aligned with a more westerly approach into London by HS2, now that would have made sense.

 

[Meerkat]

Technology might have been there, but the pandemic forced people to use it, and get used to it. And the accountants will appreciate the saving too

Or has made people realise it’s ok, but nothing like as good as the real thing.

 

[BrianW]

Technology might have been there, but the pandemic forced people to use it, and get used to it. And the accountants will appreciate the saving too

And if individuals say fly to the US twice a year and stay longer, instead of monthly for short trips, that's 2 return flights a year out of Heathrow instead of 12

I'm not picturing the Honourable Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip needing to lie down in front of a bulldozer anytime soon, whether for a Heathrow Runway or a Western or Southern Rail Link, nor driving a donated JCB

More likely the member for Richmond (Yorks) levelling up his theodolite at New Darlington Station for a new bay for LS3, previously known as NPR, welcoming a trainload of taxcollectors on a pacemaker ex Leeds.

 

[JN114]

Western Access is a priority to HAL as it captures a much, much larger slice of the current workforce that commute in by car than the Southern route does

 

[Bald Rick]

They would get the fare revenue from the planned Heathrow express services that were meant to run along this route

They wouldn’t, as if it was HEx services extended, they would be under contract to whoever funds the new line.

Is the preference for routes from different mainlines to not overlap still strong?

It’s not a preference, it’s a requirement if both the southern and western links are built. There’s only space for 2 more platforms at T5, so to make it work they have to extend.

 

[SynthD]

So have all four mainline tracks extend west and to the surface? I’m not sure where the unused platforms are, probably to the south.

 

[matt_world2004]

They wouldn’t, as if it was HEx services extended, they would be under contract to whoever funds the new line.

They would pay a fee for whoever funds the new line but the ticket revenue would still he theres and if they fund the new line they would be paying the fees to themselves

 

[camflyer]

Massive shame as the Western Access scheme was as close to a no brainer as you could find, was relatively cheap to implement and had general support from all sides. It was the Southern Access project which was more controversial and expensive.

 

[Meerkat]

Massive shame as the Western Access scheme was as close to a no brainer as you could find, was relatively cheap to implement and had general support from all sides. It was the Southern Access project which was more controversial and expensive.

Western Access was still in the billions wasn’t it??

 

[camflyer]

Western Access was still in the billions wasn’t it??

£900 million according to this:

£900m Heathrow rail link comes to a stand still | Rail Technology Magazine

Initially earmarked to begin construction this year, plans to build a western rail link has been brought to a

www.railtechnologymagazine.com

It was the Southern Access plan which was several billion depending on who you ask.

You really don't get much rail infrastructure for a billion these days.

 

[Bald Rick]

If anything, with their plans to charge people extra for driving to the airport, income will be reduced by allowing people to get there on a train.

Loss of parking revenue is the big one.

They would pay a fee for whoever funds the new line but the ticket revenue would still he theres and if they fund the new line they would be paying the fees to themselves

But HAL weren’t funding the line, that’s the point.

 

[Class 170101]

Simplistically, a Western Approach only benefits the locations served directly - most likely Slough/Maidenhead/Reading.

For everywhere else, all it's doing is moving a single change of train at Old Oak Common to a single change of train at Reading, and perhaps a fractionally better journey time.

Southern access on the other hand, makes rail access feasible for the first time for a whole swathe of Surrey and Hampshire.

Having Western Access might take pressure off Old Oak Common as many are probably going to be changing there between HS2 and Crossrail East and between HS2 and Heathrow services so avoiding those changing between Intercity and Heathrow might help.

 

[Ianno87]

Having Western Access might take pressure off Old Oak Common as many are probably going to be changing there between HS2 and Crossrail East and between HS2 and Heathrow services so avoiding those changing between Intercity and Heathrow might help.

I'd be surprised if the Heathrow-Old Oak Common-West of Reading flow were *that* significant (and those that do won't enter the main station concourse and will stay entirely within the GWML platforms). And as a new build station on a huge site, it ought to be pretty future-proofed for passenger flows anyway (as it would have had to be designed on the assumption that Western Access wasn't built)

Heathrow- Stations West Drayton to Twyford inclusive would remain generally better served by changing at Hayes.

 

[camflyer]

Having Western Access might take pressure off Old Oak Common as many are probably going to be changing there between HS2 and Crossrail East and between HS2 and Heathrow services so avoiding those changing between Intercity and Heathrow might help.

Also, thinking longer term, if Heathrow still has any hope of seeing that third runway they will need to reduce the number of road vehicles using their airport. The WA scheme was part of that to get more people from Reading, Swindow, Bristol and South Wales using rail rather than the M4.

 

[coppercapped]

Simplistically, a Western Approach only benefits the locations served directly - most likely Slough/Maidenhead/Reading.

Until the Covid pandemic the Railair coach from Reading to Heathrow ran at 20 or 30 minute intervals depending on the time of day. As it has offered such a service since the 1960s there is obviously a market for longer distance traffic to Heathrow apart from the local one which the railway has not served at all.

For the longer distance traffic trains starting from Reading and using the Western approach to Heathrow would simply have replaced the Railair link with a faster journey and, at the same time, offered a direct rail link from Twyford, Maidenhead and Slough.

In the longer term to improve the service offering the Heathrow trains could be extended to one or all of Oxford (assuming capacity exists there and the Didcot junctions can cope), Newbury and Swindon.

For everywhere else, all it's doing is moving a single change of train at Old Oak Common to a single change of train at Reading, and perhaps a fractionally better journey time.

Southern access on the other hand, makes rail access feasible for the first time for a whole swathe of Surrey and Hampshire.

I would suggest that if the change at OOC replaces the Railair coach then that is a retrograde step and will not be significantly faster than the direct coach to Terminal 5, although it may be more competitive for traffic to the Central Area.

I agree absolutely with the reasons for the proposed southern access.

 

[zwk500]

Until the Covid pandemic the Railair coach from Reading to Heathrow ran at 20 or 30 minute intervals depending on the time of day. As it has offered such a service since the 1960s there is obviously a market for longer distance traffic to Heathrow apart from the local one which the railway has not served at all.

For the longer distance traffic trains starting from Reading and using the Western approach to Heathrow would simply have replaced the Railair link with a faster journey and, at the same time, offered a direct rail link from Twyford, Maidenhead and Slough.

Was this (or indeed the Woking coach link) ever used at a level exceeding it's capacity? If a regular bus was fulfilling the demand then it's difficult to justify the need for a rail connection.

 

[Ianno87]

Was this (or indeed the Woking coach link) ever used at a level exceeding it's capacity? If a regular bus was fulfilling the demand then it's difficult to justify the need for a rail connection.

Demand is almost certainly suppressed by the poor journey time and the need to change at Woking.

 

[Meerkat]

Demand is almost certainly suppressed by the poor journey time and the need to change at Woking.

The coach is also pretty unpredictable because it has to cope with absolutely awful traffic.

 

[BrianW]

I find it hard to imagine that fewer people would use the rail link than a Railair bus- the harder question is whether the investment is worth it. There are so many 'variables'. Bearing in mind that it's hard enough to get funding for even what might be thought by some to be 'no-brainers' it must be 'realistic' to at least reduce expectations, while keeping 'sketches' in the electronic planchest and maybe hoping for some reserving of routes, 'just in case'. At least coaches can be to an extent 'whistled up' or stood down in response to changing demand. No rail link until Runway 3 is under construction.

 

[Meerkat]

I find it hard to imagine that fewer people would use the rail link than a Railair bus- the harder question is whether the investment is worth it. There are so many 'variables'. Bearing in mind that it's hard enough to get funding for even what might be thought by some to be 'no-brainers' it must be 'realistic' to at least reduce expectations, while keeping 'sketches' in the electronic planchest and maybe hoping for some reserving of routes, 'just in case'. At least coaches can be to an extent 'whistled up' or stood down in response to changing demand. No rail link until Runway 3 is under construction.

The southern rail link feeds HS2 and all sorts of other transfer markets - it shouldn’t have to wait for a 3rd runway at Heathrow.

 

[zwk500]

Demand is almost certainly suppressed by the poor journey time and the need to change at Woking.

True, but to what level is very difficult to quantify accurately enough for the rail business case.

 

[mr_jrt]

The southern rail link feeds HS2 and all sorts of other transfer markets - it shouldn’t have to wait for a 3rd runway at Heathrow.

I mean, you could also meet the HS2 demand by improving Clapham Junction to OOC...

 

[coppercapped]

Technology might have been there, but the pandemic forced people to use it, and get used to it. And the accountants will appreciate the saving too

And if individuals say fly to the US twice a year and stay longer, instead of monthly for short trips, that's 2 return flights a year out of Heathrow instead of 12

Er, no.

'Passenger journeys' are not the same as 'number of flights'.

The number of flights will remain essentially constant - predicated by the flying time, the time shift limiting possible start and landing times and the number of possible destinations in North America from Mexico to Canada — even if slightly smaller planes are used.

The coach is also pretty unpredictable because it has to cope with absolutely awful traffic.

Not really. The schedule is extended by five or ten minutes during the peak hours, but outside those times the journey time is quite reliable.

If major jams occur then the coach diverts - one of the major advantages of road transport. I've known it take the A4 for parts of the journey as well as the M3 and still arrive in time for me to check in.

 

[plugwash]

For everywhere else, all it's doing is moving a single change of train at Old Oak Common to a single change of train at Reading, and perhaps a fractionally better journey time.

If i'm not mistaken even after HS2 and crossrail are built a service from reading to heathrow would reduce the number of changes needed to reach heathrow from 2 to 1 for at least the following places

Bournmouth/Brokenurst/Southampton/Winchester
All stations from Reigate to Wokingham
Leamington SPA
Wolverhampton
Stafford
Macclesfield

Probablly also some places north of Crewe depending on exactly what happens with HS2 there.

Granted a link to Basingstoke would be better in this regard though.