Help: GTR out of court settlement but been convicted

[Lica]

Hi everyone,
My cousin been convicted in his absence. He had a letter accusing him of fare evasion of £6.50 bought with a 16-17 years old railcard, obviously he didn’t have it and been sitting in first class.He had corresponded with GTR and they agreed to settle out the court for £60:60. He sent a postal order on 5/12/20 via special delivery.
On 17/12/20 he received a letter Single Justice Procedure Notice to attend court on 5/01/2021 .
He been calling them, no one’s answer it. Sent them a letter with all proofs, emailed them too. On 23/12/20 he finally speaks with someone from prosecution team and been told that they received his postal order on 7/12/2020 and he can disregard the previous letter regarding court attendance. Same day a matter closed came through the post. On 24/12/20 they answered through email that in their system the matter was closed.
On 8/01/21 he received a letter that he’s been convicted and have to pay £360 by 20/01/21.
Please if someone could help us with some information what steps to take further.
Many thanks for your help!

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi everyone,
My cousin been convicted in his absence. He had a letter accusing him of fare evasion of £6.50 bought with a 16-17 years old railcard, obviously he didn’t have it and been sitting in first class.He had corresponded with GTR and they agreed to settle out the court for £60:60. He sent a postal order on 5/12/20 via special delivery.
On 17/12/20 he received a letter Single Justice Procedure Notice to attend court on 5/01/2021 .
He been calling them, no one’s answer it. Sent them a letter with all proofs, emailed them too. On 23/12/20 he finally speaks with someone from prosecution team and been told that they received his postal order on 7/12/2020 and he can disregard the previous letter regarding court attendance. Same day a matter closed came through the post. On 24/12/20 they answered through email that in their system the matter was closed.
On 8/01/21 he received a letter that he’s been convicted and have to pay £360 by 20/01/21.
Please if someone could help us with some information what steps to take further.
Many thanks for your help!

Hi - can you clarify your post with some detail about the letters (you could images with all personal details blanked if you like) but for example the letter of 8/1/21 - who was this from? The Court or GTR prosecutions department.

It may help to see the actual wording of the other e-mails from them referred to.

I would start by helping your cousin compose a clear and simple letter to GTR prosecutions department setting out the sequence of events you have posted (eg as a bullet pointed list) and a clear 'ask' at the end of what you want them to do to sort this out - perhaps end along following lines

eg -
"Please can you
- confirm that following your e-mail on 24/12/2020 the matter was closed
- explain why it then seemed to go to court anyway, when it was agreed in writing it would not
- take steps to withdraw the prosecution
- state in writing that the £360 detailed in the letter of X, copy enclosed, is in fact not owed
- confirm in writing that any court records of this conviction are removed "

 

[Lica]

Unfortunately both of us are at work and not have the letters with us. But definitely the 8/01/21 letter is from the magistrates court. There’s some info on it about bylaw and siting in non-compulsory area .

 

[Fawkes Cat]

This comes down to questions about court procedure and their interaction with private prosecutors (such as railway companies). I'd be delighted to be proved wrong by someone here being able to give accurate and reliable advice, but I think it's beyond us. The OP's cousin needs to talk to a solicitor to see if this muddle can be unwound.

Doing that may cost quite a lot, but don't despair: I understand that there are solicitors who are prepared to give a half-hour consultation for free, and the OP's cousin may get free legal support if they're (for example)
- a member of a trade union or
- a student (ask the students union welfare officer) or
- covered by some house insurance policies or
- have legal help included in the services from their bank account

There may be other ways of getting free legal help as well: but I understand that going to the Citizen's Advice is not one of them as they don't get involved in criminal matters.

I'm convinced that there will be a solution in that the OP's cousin should have to either pay the out of court settlement or face the conviction, but not both. But I am not certain that the solution will involve overturning the conviction: it may be that the OP's cousin ends up getting the out of court settlement refunded and the conviction stays in place.

 

[WesternLancer]

This comes down to questions about court procedure and their interaction with private prosecutors (such as railway companies). I'd be delighted to be proved wrong by someone here being able to give accurate and reliable advice, but I think it's beyond us. The OP's cousin needs to talk to a solicitor to see if this muddle can be unwound.

Doing that may cost quite a lot, but don't despair: I understand that there are solicitors who are prepared to give a half-hour consultation for free, and the OP's cousin may get free legal support if they're (for example)
- a member of a trade union or
- a student (ask the students union welfare officer) or
- covered by some house insurance policies or
- have legal help included in the services from their bank account

There may be other ways of getting free legal help as well: but I understand that going to the Citizen's Advice is not one of them as they don't get involved in criminal matters.

I'm convinced that there will be a solution in that the OP's cousin should have to either pay the out of court settlement or face the conviction, but not both. But I am not certain that the solution will involve overturning the conviction: it may be that the OP's cousin ends up getting the out of court settlement refunded and the conviction stays in place.

all good points. But I would think at first a clear letter to the relevant train company unit / prosecution department asking 'what's goin on' is the way to start (and a copy sent to whoever sent the letter from the court saying you have been convicted and owe a fine). If there are consequences for not paying the fine then it may be that you need to pay it and seek to reclaim it when the ,matter resolved but I don't know if that is wise or not. Others may post with help.

I would also think you could get to help from Transport Focus (watchdog) on this one as it would seem that a process error has occurred - in that you were told that an Out of Court Settlement had been agreed, yet you then got taken to court without knowing it, which suggests to me that the train company or their agent acted in error after agreeing the settlement (and Transport Focus need to help you with the process error - not the issue of the fraudulent travel which the OP's cousin has admitted to).

Home - Transport Focus

Transport Focus is the independent watchdog for transport users. We put the interests of transport users first and aim to get the best deal for passengers and road users.

www.transportfocus.org.uk

The OP needs to :

do everything in writing
copy each party into letters to the other
appreciate that this will not get untangled / resolved very quickly I fear....

 

[221129]

But I would think at first a clear letter to the relevant train company unit / prosecution department asking 'what's goin on' is the way to start (and a copy sent to whoever sent the letter from the court saying you have been convicted and owe a fine).

Speaking to the court and trying to get the conviction overturned should be the first point of call. As it stands, the OP's cousin has been convicted and thus the fine is legally owed and the court will start to take steps to recover it.

To the OP, speak to a solicitor and take legal advice.

 

[WesternLancer]

Speaking to the court and trying to get the conviction overturned should be the first point of call. As it stands, the OP's cousin has been convicted and thus the fine is legally owed and the court will start to take steps to recover it.

To the OP, speak to a solicitor and take legal advice.

I suspect that if my approach does not get a fairly speedy response, I would indeed agree that an attempt to get some legal advice is vital. As otherwise the risk is a fairly quick escalation of court processes / costs / bailiffs at the door potentially.

I doubt the OP's cousin expected to contend with this when taking the decision to sit in a 1st class seat with a ticket bought with a Railcard discount they were not entitled to receive..... but there we are.

 

[Realfish]

I thought that in these circumstances the very first thing that the OP's cousin should do is swear a statutory declaration to the court, that the case was heard without their knowledge. The declaration, if accepted will mean that the conviction is set aside so that proceedings can recommence (and in this case, be withdrawn by the train operator).
As I recall from these pages, time is of the essence - there is only 21 days to make the declaration from becoming aware of the conviction.

 

[221129]

that the case was heard without their knowledge

The OP states they received the Single Justice Procedure Notice. So they were aware. A Statutory Declaration would not be appropriate in this case.

 

[WesternLancer]

The OP states they received the Single Justice Procedure Notice. So they were aware. A Statutory Declaration would not be appropriate in this case.

Yes, looks like some error between 17th and 24th dec 2020 (either at railway or court) meant the case was (presumably) not withdrawn from Court ahead of the hearing date of 5 Jan 2021 (using OP's dates cited)

Hindsight advice (useless of course but as often mentioned in these threads) would have been to make every effort to ensure the court knew the case was supposed to be withdrawn ahead of 5 Jan - none of this helped by being over the holiday period of course. IE not believe what the railway company / their agents were telling you ref 'case closed' until you cross checked with the court. And who knows, the court may have failed to act on an instruction from the Railway in any case.

 

[Lica]

The OP states they received the Single Justice Procedure Notice. So they were aware. A Statutory Declaration would not be appropriate in this case.

Cousin been told to disregard the letter and no need to attend the court so he thought that no court will take place

 

[221129]

Cousin been told to disregard the letter and no need to attend the court so he thought that no court will take place

It doesn't matter, a Statutory Declaration would still NOT be appropriate.

Seek legal advice from a solicitor.

 

[WesternLancer]

Cousin been told to disregard the letter and no need to attend the court so he thought that no court will take place

Yes, I reckon you need to ring round local solicitors that offer an initial free help service - as it's not really a ticket issue anymore - it's a court process issue - any solicitor who does that should be able to help - or as up thread if cousin or family member has legal help via union, house insurance, student union etc

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Are there many other examples of railway prosecution departments asserting that proceedings have been withdrawn but, for whatever reason, the prosecution has proceeded nevertheless?

 

[Lica]

Hi - can you clarify your post with some detail about the letters (you could images with all personal details blanked if you like) but for example the letter of 8/1/21 - who was this from? The Court or GTR prosecutions department.

It may help to see the actual wording of the other e-mails from them referred to.

I would start by helping your cousin compose a clear and simple letter to GTR prosecutions department setting out the sequence of events you have posted (eg as a bullet pointed list) and a clear 'ask' at the end of what you want them to do to sort this out - perhaps end along following lines

eg -
"Please can you
- confirm that following your e-mail on 24/12/2020 the matter was closed
- explain why it then seemed to go to court anyway, when it was agreed in writing it would not
- take steps to withdraw the prosecution
- state in writing that the £360 detailed in the letter of X, copy enclosed, is in fact not owed
- confirm in writing that any court records of this conviction are removed "

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for posting the images - I guess you could try ringing the court or going there and showing them this, but I think you need to get solicitor to help you untangle it if that's an option.

 

[MikeWh]

Are there many other examples of railway prosecution departments asserting that proceedings have been withdrawn but, for whatever reason, the prosecution has proceeded nevertheless?

I'm aware of at least one other case where GTR did this in the last year.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Is this an abuse of process, noting that the OP mentions that a £60.60 Postal Order payment was sent in early December to settle the matter out of court? (Presumably it would help if it could be determined that this PO had subsequently been encashed by GTR).

 

[Lica]

Is this an abuse of process, noting that the OP mentions that a £60.60 Postal Order payment was sent in early December to settle the matter out of court? (Presumably it would help if it could be determined that this PO had subsequently been encashed by GTR).

A postal order payable to Govia been sent on 5 December , been received on 7 December but somehow they’ve missed it or it’s been misplaced .On 15 December they took decision to Prosecute , on 17 they sent him a letter matter closed which arrived on 23 December afternoon . Cousin talked to a lady from prosecution team she told that they have the postal order and did assure him that everything is fine and no need to go court.

 

[Hadders]

This seems to be an administrative error made by GTR and/or the court. In the first instance I'd probably contact the Prosecutions Department at GTR but if this doesn't yield a satisfactory result without delay I would consult a local law firm.

 

[ukkid]

Not as clear cut..the defendant was informed verbally and in writing by GTR that the matter was closed and to disregard the SJP. They were quite entitled to believe the prosecution would drop the matter and it would not go ahead.

This was not confirmed by the court and we normally advise people to check with the court/forward any correspondence from the TOC in such situations. However I don't think there is any onus on the defendant to do so, putting aside most would probably not come to come on here and would take what GTR said at face value.

I think they still have the option of making the statutory declaration providing evidence that GTR advised them to disregard . Its for the court to decide whether they will accept or reject it.

Regardless the cousin could also simply contact the court for advice on the best way to proceed, explaining the situation with the correspondance from GTR.

 

[furlong]

Yes, talk to the court and see if they can propose a way, such as a statutory declaration, to untangle this. Do not delay as the fine is due next week. (The resolution of the matter now lies between your cousin and the court - focus on dealing with the court.)

 

[Lica]

Thank you everyone for your time and advice. Looks like my cousin will get a solicitor to help . I’ll get back when hopefully things will get sorted !

 

[najaB]

I think they still have the option of making the statutory declaration providing evidence that GTR advised them to disregard . Its for the court to decide whether they will accept or reject it.

I'm inclined to agree. In any case, the solution to the current problem lies in the remit of the court, either by way of a Statutory Declaration or other method.

 

[Lica]

He contacted the prosecution department and they told him that they emailed the court to re-open the case and waiting for a response from court. Cousin doesn’t have money to pay a solicitor and he believes that prosecutions request will be enough. And he did realise that his DOB it’s wrong on the documents from court.

 

[WesternLancer]

He contacted the prosecution department and they told him that they emailed the court to re-open the case and waiting for a response from court. Cousin doesn’t have money to pay a solicitor and he believes that prosecutions request will be enough. And he did realise that his DOB it’s wrong on the documents from court.

some legal firms will give you eg 30 mins free work - he would have to ring round to find one that offered this. That could be an option if it is not resolved

 

[typefish]

tbh, it should be easy enough to ask the magistrates to re-open the case under s. 142 Magistrates Act 1980 and that's probably what the prosecutions department have done.

There should be no need for a solicitor from here onwards

 

[Realfish]

tbh, it should be easy enough to ask the magistrates to re-open the case under s. 142 Magistrates Act 1980 and that's probably what the prosecutions department have done.

There should be no need for a solicitor from here onwards

Having already received promises from GTR that they would not proceed, but then did, if it were me in this situation, I would speak with the court, personally, to be doubly sure that prosecution was being set aside and the case withdrawn.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

tbh, it should be easy enough to ask the magistrates to re-open the case under s. 142 Magistrates Act 1980 and that's probably what the prosecutions department have done.

There should be no need for a solicitor from here onwards

I see that Transport for London have a useful guide to this at https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIAhAF&usg=AOvVaw3OBQ01sQcQpJZvObnuEDre . Interestingly, they *do* suggest talking to Citizens Advice which is different from my understanding, so that may be a route the OP's cousin could pursue.

 

[ukkid]

tbh, it should be easy enough to ask the magistrates to re-open the case under s. 142 Magistrates Act 1980 and that's probably what the prosecutions department have done.

There should be no need for a solicitor from here onwards

This is my understanding too (reopen and vacate). I thought in the first instance they could have emailed the court for advice, whom would have probably contacted GTR and listed the case for an s.d or reopened. The OP could probably do still email the court cc'ing GTR to ensure the matter is not forgotten. Certainly don't think there is a need for a solicitor at this stage.