Heysham cancellations

[childwallblues]

I'm genuinely surprised it's that well used. As it's in marginal time (just by missing out a Morecambe-Lancaster-Morecambe round-trip, basically), and the line has to exist because of the nuclear power station (nobody wants spent fuel rods being driven on the Bay Gateway and crashed into, even less so local roads before that was built) it could well be profitable at that level of usage. The marginal cost of running it is basically just the lost fares from having a gap in the Lancaster-Morecambe timetable, which could actually be zero, plus maintaining the station which is just a platform with little else, so painting it once every couple of years? Potentially cheaper, as such, than a shuttle bus.

I'd have thought most foot passengers flew these days.

Flying is certainly cheaper but you do have to get from Ronaldsway Airport. I flew to the Isle of Man from Liverpool in June with easyJet. 25 minute flight on an A320.

 

[M&NEJ]

Would it be difficult to train the staff on just one more station Morecambe to Heysham? Would solve these issues.

This is hear-say, unless anyone else can confirm it; but I seem to recall being told that there is a union agreement restricting which depot can crew the Heysham branch. It may date from the days when the line was "rationalised" and staff-and-key working was introduced from the then Bare Lane signal box.

 

[childwallblues]

During the summer months the IOMSPC runs a fastcraft service from Douglas to Liverpool which is easier to access than Heysham.

 

[Pinus contorta]

This is hear-say, unless anyone else can confirm it; but I seem to recall being told that there is a union agreement restricting which depot can crew the Heysham branch. It may date from the days when the line was "rationalised" and staff-and-key working was introduced from the then Bare Lane signal box.

So is that why the Skipton crews don't do it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

During the summer months the IOMSPC runs a fastcraft service from Douglas to Liverpool which is easier to access than Heysham.

In many ways it'd be helpful to the railway if the ferry company stopped carrying foot passengers from Heysham entirely. It'd bother hardly anyone (most foot passengers fly) and they'd have a decent excuse to bin the train off and take Morecambe to half hourly clockface (or close to it).

 

[dk1]

In many ways it'd be helpful to the railway if the ferry company stopped carrying foot passengers from Heysham entirely. It'd bother hardly anyone (most foot passengers fly) and they'd have a decent excuse to bin the train off and take Morecambe to half hourly clockface (or close to it).

Probably have to keep running it anyway as the legal issues to stop or heaven forbid close the route would be too complex.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Probably have to keep running it anyway as the legal issues to stop or heaven forbid close the route would be too complex.

If they had to run something they could run it before the first train/after the last train so it didn't get in the way of the timetable. But there seems to be plenty of precedent for keeping single-purpose stations like that open with only a taxi on demand when they get in the way. (It's genuinely useless for people from Heysham going to Lancaster or Morecambe; they use the bus).

The line itself wouldn't be lifted as it's used for nuclear traffic.

 

[dk1]

If they had to run something they could run it before the first train/after the last train so it didn't get in the way of the timetable. But there seems to be plenty of precedent for keeping single-purpose stations like that open with only a taxi on demand when they get in the way. (It's genuinely useless for people from Heysham going to Lancaster or Morecambe; they use the bus).

The line itself wouldn't be lifted as it's used for nuclear traffic.

And I doubt there are any plans for the ferry to stop taking foot passengers.

 

[M&NEJ]

So is that why the Skipton crews don't do it?

Yes, if there is such an agreement with the union(s) then I assume it's only the Barrow staff who operate the Heysham branch or conduct the Skipton crew to Heysham.

 

[zwk500]

In many ways it'd be helpful to the railway if the ferry company stopped carrying foot passengers from Heysham entirely. It'd bother hardly anyone (most foot passengers fly) and they'd have a decent excuse to bin the train off and take Morecambe to half hourly clockface (or close to it).

You've spent ages saying there's no point closing it as it's only marginal cost for a coat of paint every year or so!

 

[MontyP]

You've spent ages saying there's no point closing it as it's only marginal cost for a coat of paint every year or so!

Will it get binned when the power station closes in 2024 (I think)? Or will the line stay open for the years of decommissioning?

 

[zwk500]

Will it get binned when the power station closes in 2024 (I think)? Or will the line stay open for the years of decommissioning?

It will stay open for a while, I guess, as the fuel presumably will take a while to be ready to move, and there's probably other things related to the decommissioning that might find a use for a railfreight connection, such as disposal of inert waste and bringing in materials.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It will stay open for a while, I guess, as the fuel presumably will take a while to be ready to move, and there's probably other things related to the decommissioning that might find a use for a railfreight connection, such as disposal of inert waste and bringing in materials.

There's also talk of another reactor being built, though who knows if it'll happen or not. Putting new ones where the old ones are is generally a win as there won't be NIMBY objections and the locals like the jobs.

 

[DelW]

Flying is certainly cheaper but you do have to get from Ronaldsway Airport. I flew to the Isle of Man from Liverpool in June with easyJet. 25 minute flight on an A320.

There is (or was, last time I went there) a frequent bus service into Douglas. However, if the times work out, my preference is to cross the main road and walk down the track opposite, to the halt on the steam line. It's slower and more expensive than the bus, but I just like the idea of using what must be the world's only airport station which is a request stop served solely by steam trains.

 

[73128]

t

Indeed my mother was amongst them. Apparently they were told it would be quite a wait for the RRB to arrive so she was one of those who shared a taxi.

the train is due to arrive 1317 and leave at 1320 and the coach was only a few minutes later. we were in Lancaster soon after 2 o'clock

There is (or was, last time I went there) a frequent bus service into Douglas. However, if the times work out, my preference is to cross the main road and walk down the track opposite, to the halt on the steam line. It's slower and more expensive than the bus, but I just like the idea of using what must be the world's only airport station which is a request stop served solely by steam trains.

Frequency currently down to buses 3 an hour but usually 4 for most of the day (M-S). I did arrive by plane and take a bus into Douglas once.

During the summer months the IOMSPC runs a fastcraft service from Douglas to Liverpool which is easier to access than Heysham.

Except that it is c 20 minutes walk from Lime Street (less from James Street, but unclear whether rail-sail tickets are valid there) to access it.

So is that why the Skipton crews don't do it?

one of those restrictive practises that probably need to go.

 

[RJ]

I travelled to Heysham Port last year - was the only passenger on the train between Morecambe and Heysham in both directions.

On the way back to Morecambe, the service was disrupted - some children had managed to access the running line from a bridge which caused a short delay. The train eventually continued - as we went past the children were still on railway property, trying to climb back up to the road and sliding back down towards the line. They must have been extremely bored to plan that into their day.

As for rail replacement buses, generally speaking I think the procurement departments do liaise with the bus operators and provide maps or at least coordinates for the stations. But the bus driver still might not necessarily know where they're going - if the bus has been called at short notice, it might be a case of any bum on a seat for a driver, someone who hasn't previously learned the route. I can attest that joining the dots with postcodes is not a good way of doing things. The last time I did that when route testing ahead of going in service on an emergency job, I ended up driving through army land and onto a route with a 8'9" bridge - fortunately I found a safe place to turn not long after seeing the warning sign. On receiving a map a few hours later, the prescribed route would most certainly not be suggested by a sat nav.

I'm not convinced it's an easy issue to fix hence why there are SOS tweets from passengers on lost buses or at intermediate stops the bus has missed pretty much every weekend - this is a nationwide thing, not necessarily limited to one area. There are inherent challenges with training people on routes that may run only run every few weeks or months. There's no guarantee the same staff with the route knowledge will always be available to do it. In this area, a limited supply of pilots are paid for who are meant to show the driver the route. But the buses still get lost with a pilot on board and we only find out because there's been a collision with a bridge or parked cars, or the vehicle has gone missing for a noticeable amount of time. Sat Navs aren't the panacea either - certain routes you know when the driver has been using one in lieu of proper knowledge because they've ended up down a road with a 6'6" width restriction, or a low bridge. If the driver misses a turn, the new route suggested by the Sat Nav might not necessarily be a safe one.

Diversions are a problem as well - it's not unknown to find level crossings down or bridges blocked part way through the day and such obstructions can throw things well out of kilter.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Except that it is c 20 minutes walk from Lime Street (less from James Street, but unclear whether rail-sail tickets are valid there) to access it.

I don't know if they are or not, but it is only £2.25.

(Cheapest ticket I ever bought was James St to Central in the mid 90s - just 15 pence with YP - gone up a bit!)

 

[craigybagel]

This is hear-say, unless anyone else can confirm it; but I seem to recall being told that there is a union agreement restricting which depot can crew the Heysham branch. It may date from the days when the line was "rationalised" and staff-and-key working was introduced from the then Bare Lane signal box.

So is that why the Skipton crews don't do it?

Yes, if there is such an agreement with the union(s) then I assume it's only the Barrow staff who operate the Heysham branch or conduct the Skipton crew to Heysham.

Regardless of whether or not there's an agreement with the unions, surely having more than one depot signing a route that only sees one train a day is grossly inefficient? And the last thing Northern need at the moment is to divert crews away from their normal duties to learn such a route.

 

[chiltern trev]

"Bletchleyite, post: 5790640, member: 27187"]
In many ways it'd be helpful to the railway if the ferry company stopped carrying foot passengers from Heysham entirely. It'd bother hardly anyone (most foot passengers fly) and they'd have a decent excuse to bin the train off and take Morecambe to half hourly clockface (or close to it).
[/QUOTE]
Not going to happen.
The IOMSP is owned by the Isle of Man Government and provides an essential lifeline service to the Isle of Man and an alternative to flying.
Foot passengers will be part of the contract/service obligation.
Also note a new ferry is currently in build and has been floated out.

Manxman Timeline

We would like to keep our customers, fellow Islanders and friends up-to-date by sharing the progress of this bespoke new build through this blog. Check out its story so far, starting with the most recent and moving backward in time, with lots of milestones yet to come

www.steam-packet.com

 

[DynamicSpirit]

In many ways it'd be helpful to the railway if the ferry company stopped carrying foot passengers from Heysham entirely. It'd bother hardly anyone (most foot passengers fly) and they'd have a decent excuse to bin the train off and take Morecambe to half hourly clockface (or close to it).

Would not running to Heysham really make any difference in allowing clockface Lancaster-Morecambe? It's only 1 train a day anyway so seems unlikely to have any impact on the timetable that could be run outside that one hour.

 

[Goldfish62]

There is (or was, last time I went there) a frequent bus service into Douglas. However, if the times work out, my preference is to cross the main road and walk down the track opposite, to the halt on the steam line. It's slower and more expensive than the bus, but I just like the idea of using what must be the world's only airport station which is a request stop served solely by steam trains.

Yes, buses every 20 min from outside the terminal into Douglas.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would not running to Heysham really make any difference in allowing clockface Lancaster-Morecambe? It's only 1 train a day anyway so seems unlikely to have any impact on the timetable that could be run outside that one hour.

It'd mean losing one service in that hour. Though if it's only 1tpd now, it's probably not hard to remember which hour that is alongside the xx minutes past each hour bit.

 

[Goldfish62]

Reading through this thread it seems to me that providing a reliable service to Heysham is in the "too difficult" category for today's railway, so maybe better to close the branch to passenger services, with the Steam Packet company contracting a bus operator to provide a dedicated link instead.

 

[zwk500]

Reading through this thread it seems to me that providing a reliable service to Heysham is in the "too difficult" category for today's railway, so maybe better to close the branch to passenger services, with the Steam Packet company contracting a bus operator to provide a dedicated link instead.

The branch itself won't be closed as the Nuclea Power plant needs a railhead. However I personally agree, the bay gateway means it will now be relatively simple to run a bus link out to Lancaster, with 1 or 2 City centre drop offs before terminating at the station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The branch itself won't be closed as the Nuclea Power plant needs a railhead. However I personally agree, the bay gateway means it will now be relatively simple to run a bus link out to Lancaster, with 1 or 2 City centre drop offs before terminating at the station.

I'm inclined to agree even though it's quite possible the train doesn't require any subsidy as all you need is a bit of diesel (it's done in marginal time by missing out a Morecambe-Lancaster-Morecambe round trip). It would offer better service and allow the branch to become 2tph clockface (assuming that can be pathed).

A minibus would probably be adequate; I'm sure Kirby Lonsdale Coaches could do something suitable.

As the branch won't close, it'll still be there for turning back into a passenger route later if that was for whatever reason considered desirable, though to make it much use as against the bus you'd need to open a few extra stations.

 

[RT4038]

In many ways it'd be helpful to the railway if the ferry company stopped carrying foot passengers from Heysham entirely. It'd bother hardly anyone (most foot passengers fly) and they'd have a decent excuse to bin the train off and take Morecambe to half hourly clockface (or close to it).

What a strange statement..... How exactly would that be helpful? Went on the ferry as a foot passenger a couple of months ago - railway was on strike, but a (frequent) Stagecoach Bus took us to Combermere Road, about 15 min straightforward walk to the Ferry. There wasn't many foot passengers (maybe because of the strike?) , but I would see no reason to remove the facility.

 

[Zooty]

Will it get binned when the power station closes in 2024 (I think)? Or will the line stay open for the years of decommissioning?

There are two power stations at Heysham. Heysham 1 is due to close in 2024, Heysham 2 in 2028.

Regardless of whether or not there's an agreement with the unions, surely having more than one depot signing a route that only sees one train a day is grossly inefficient? And the last thing Northern need at the moment is to divert crews away from their normal duties to learn such a route.

Indeed. And it's only the Sunday service that works as an extension of a Leeds-Morecambe service, so it would only be one train a week. I presume the Skipton crew are booked a PNB at Lancaster while Barrow do the run to Heysham.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are two power stations at Heysham. Heysham 1 is due to close in 2024, Heysham 2 in 2028.

There is still a possibility of a Heysham 3. The tide is turning towards nuclear, and a logical place to put new ones is by existing ones as objections will be very few in number.

 

[Goldfish62]

The branch itself won't be closed as the Nuclea Power plant needs a railhead.

Indeed. That's why said "closed to passenger services".