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High earners from elsewhere putting up house prices for locals

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RT4038

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Trouble is local shops can't survive on being busy just a few weeks/months of the year during peak holiday periods. They need trade all year round. There is also the new trend of holidaymakers pre-ordering a Tesco delivery for their arrival day, so the local shops aren't getting the trade.
The local shops will just have to catch up and offer a web based pre-ordering service themselves! Presumably the Tesco fulfillment store is situated in the locality, so qualifies as a locally based business?
 
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Meerkat

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The local shops will just have to catch up and offer a web based pre-ordering service themselves! Presumably the Tesco fulfillment store is situated in the locality, so qualifies as a locally based business?
If you go online you are going to Tesco, not a local shop with higher prices and smaller range.
And the fulfilment centre will be many miles away.
 

RuralRambler

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The local shops will just have to catch up and offer a web based pre-ordering service themselves! Presumably the Tesco fulfillment store is situated in the locality, so qualifies as a locally based business?
It's well known that local small shops can't complete with the big supermarkets, neither on price, range, etc. They often have to pay higher prices for good they sell than the supermarkets sell them for, i.e. wholesale prices are often higher than supermarket retail prices. That's why you see so many small business owners pushing full trolleys around your local supermarket! They're buying stuff to sell because it's cheaper!

Small shops aren't going to be able to afford a delivery van with inbuilt fridge/freezer, nor the staff to drive it, nor the costs of setting up an online app, nor the staff costs of keeping it updated, it's not worth it for a handful of deliveries.

Supermarket deliveries come from the nearest large store, which in rural areas, could often be 10/20/30/40 miles away, sometimes a lot further.

It's all called economies of scale.
 

Dr Day

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Veering slightly off topic, but questioning whether holiday rental properties should be considered in the same vein as second homes, or even primary homes for 'outsiders'? Many local economies are driven by tourism.

And on the flip side it isn't unheard of for more rural communities to bemoan the fact that their children have upped sticks and moved to London.

Would be interested to see statistics, but Britain feels like it has more internal migration than other European countries so hard to define what a 'local' really is when many families move possibly a couple of times every generation.
 

Meerkat

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but questioning whether holiday rental properties should be considered in the same vein as second homes
They are often the same thing. And when house building is severely restricted they have the same effect
 

option

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Maybe be they get smaller classes and better education?

Have you got any data on spending per pupil or achievement in the relevant schools?

Schools get a 'per head' payment, then other targeted ones. So a school with 100 pupils will have half the budget as one with 200 pupils.
Long long gone are the days of 1 teacher doing everything, so you can end up with a school where there's more staff than pupils
You can only get away with small schools at the primary level, once at secondary level you need hundreds of pupils.
 

Altrincham

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In Altrincham, the arrival of the BBC at MediaCity about 10 years ago did no favours for property prices and certainly put paid to many local first-time buyers being able to buy typical first-time properties. People I know who had grown up in the area (and had wanted to stay in Altrincham) were moving further afield for affordable (and realistically priced) housing.

This had been something that first became noticeable in the late 1990s / early 2000s when a lot of organisations were either relocating from London to Manchester, or were expanding beyond London and up to Manchester. All of a sudden there seemed to be an influx of people ready to pay the asking price and properties were selling as soon as they’d gone on the market.

Fast-forward to a typical situation today and a moderate two-up-two-down terraced house sells for the asking price of £525k, with the buyer offering an extra £10k on the day of viewing the property for the seller to take the property off the market. Anyone who is not a high earner will never stand a chance in these conditions.
 

RT4038

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In Altrincham, the arrival of the BBC at MediaCity about 10 years ago did no favours for property prices and certainly put paid to many local first-time buyers being able to buy typical first-time properties. People I know who had grown up in the area (and had wanted to stay in Altrincham) were moving further afield for affordable (and realistically priced) housing.

This had been something that first became noticeable in the late 1990s / early 2000s when a lot of organisations were either relocating from London to Manchester, or were expanding beyond London and up to Manchester. All of a sudden there seemed to be an influx of people ready to pay the asking price and properties were selling as soon as they’d gone on the market.

Fast-forward to a typical situation today and a moderate two-up-two-down terraced house sells for the asking price of £525k, with the buyer offering an extra £10k on the day of viewing the property for the seller to take the property off the market. Anyone who is not a high earner will never stand a chance in these conditions.
So are you saying that organisations shouldn't be moving from London to Manchester? I thought that is what Manchester wanted?
 

Altrincham

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So are you saying that organisations shouldn't be moving from London to Manchester? I thought that is what Manchester wanted?
No, I’m not saying that. I hope my post isn’t giving the impression that organisations shouldn’t move to Manchester.

I’m saying that an influx of high earners had a knock-on effect in my town of pushing up the property prices
 

RuralRambler

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So are you saying that organisations shouldn't be moving from London to Manchester? I thought that is what Manchester wanted?

It's not the intended outcome though. What has happened is that people are either moving/commuting from London to Manchester. That wasn't the intention. The intention was to provide more employment opportunities in the North West, and improve regional reporting etc. We've ended up with the same BBC coverage, same staff etc., but now working from Manchester instead of London. A classic fail of the original intention.
 

telstarbox

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That is probably short term though. As those people move up or leave there will be vacancies for "local people", plus the BBC moving in has stimulated a lot of related growth such as production companies around the Quays.
 

Bevan Price

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....it's a mess, and no easy answers. I do agree with the idea of removing the Council Tax "discount" - it seems daft to have one - but then I'd reform Council Tax further (we are effectively all being taxed now on what our houses were worth in 1991, because no politician dares reform it, since they'd be seen as penalising some people who've done very well out of the crazy "market" we've had over the past thirty years
I would abolish council tax because it is essentially unfair; the amount bears no relationship to your current income or ability to pay. I am now retired, but still pay the same amount as if I was still working and had a much higher income.

Now I know many will disagree, but I would replace council tax by a local income tax. And if you had a second home, you would have to pay tax in each area -- possibly with a higher rate of tax paid to the area containing your second home (the one where you spend least time.)
 

Busaholic

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I would abolish council tax because it is essentially unfair; the amount bears no relationship to your current income or ability to pay. I am now retired, but still pay the same amount as if I was still working and had a much higher income.

Now I know many will disagree, but I would replace council tax by a local income tax. And if you had a second home, you would have to pay tax in each area -- possibly with a higher rate of tax paid to the area containing your second home (the one where you spend least time.)
Well, I agree with you on the essentials of your post. Council tax may not be quite so bad as the Community Charge was (aka Poll Tax) but that's no advert for it. As for business rates...... a total abrogation of responsibility from successive governments.
 

RT4038

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It's not the intended outcome though. What has happened is that people are either moving/commuting from London to Manchester. That wasn't the intention. The intention was to provide more employment opportunities in the North West, and improve regional reporting etc. We've ended up with the same BBC coverage, same staff etc., but now working from Manchester instead of London. A classic fail of the original intention.
It has provided more employment opportunities in the North West. The jobs are in Manchester. Or are you suggesting that people in one part of the country should be banned or discriminated against applying for, or being transferred to, jobs in another part?

I doubt there was any intention, when moving their activity from London to Manchester, that their existing staff would all lose their jobs and be replaced by new Mancunian and district staff. However, as @telstarbox points out, there will be opportunities later for local people in ancillary industries, and later on suitably qualified locals (competing with others from anywhere else in the country), when those people retire etc. These policies are for the longer term, not a short term fix. Not a 'classic fail'.
 

LSWR Cavalier

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Quite a lot of people from the BBC did not want to go to Manchester and sought other jobs in London.

Manchester looks too big and busy to me now. Could some jobs be moved to Darwen or Whitehaven?
 

Doctor Fegg

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Permanently resident “incomers” with high salaries often contribute more to the community than born-and-breds, sadly. I lose track of the number of times I’ve been told our town “isn’t what it used to be” by people who don’t use a single one of the local shops/pubs/community facilities, but always drive to a massive supermarket 10 miles away. Meanwhile the ex-Londoners get stuck into local life.
 

WelshBluebird

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Permanently resident “incomers” with high salaries often contribute more to the community than born-and-breds, sadly. I lose track of the number of times I’ve been told our town “isn’t what it used to be” by people who don’t use a single one of the local shops/pubs/community facilities, but always drive to a massive supermarket 10 miles away. Meanwhile the ex-Londoners get stuck into local life.
The same can't be said for people who buy up much needed housing to only use it for a few weeks of the year though.
 

The Ham

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Where have the local kids disappeared to?

For some time now the number of children has been falling whilst the population has been growing.

I think it was 100 years ago that 40% of the population were children it's now 20%.

However that isn't spread equally, some areas have seen the fall be much slower than others.

I suspect that once a couple can't find a local home due to house prices being pushed up they move away, with fewer young couples there's likely to be fewer children and so the numbers in the schools there fall.

Once a school sees it's numbers fall too far (especially secondary schools) it's likely that they'll close. That in turn means long trips to get to school (even if the travel is funded by the council), which puts more people who are thinking of having children off from living there and so it continues.
 

Horizon22

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I would abolish council tax because it is essentially unfair; the amount bears no relationship to your current income or ability to pay. I am now retired, but still pay the same amount as if I was still working and had a much higher income.

Now I know many will disagree, but I would replace council tax by a local income tax. And if you had a second home, you would have to pay tax in each area -- possibly with a higher rate of tax paid to the area containing your second home (the one where you spend least time.)

Council tax has become one of those "too hard to fix*" because naturally, there will be some losers as well as winners if we were to update prices from 1991 which are so vastly different now.

*When I say too hard, I also mean it would be seen as political suicide (unfortunately).
 

The Ham

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Council tax has become one of those "too hard to fix*" because naturally, there will be some losers as well as winners if we were to update prices from 1991 which are so vastly different now.

*When I say too hard, I also mean it would be seen as political suicide (unfortunately).

However, given how much house prices have changed over time the fact that most people are paying less than £2,000 (which isn't all that much), it's a fairly low tax.

Even if you don't get the maximum discount (50% off) then paying the full amount (which is the case in some places, Cornwall requires full council tax from nearly everyone) isn't all that much when compared to what it costs to buy and run the property.
 
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