History of Class 86 on WCML Carlisle to Glasgow

[Eldrivk]

Hi,

I am after more information having found plenty for my Class 31 Newspapers question before.

This is about the Class 86 on the WCML. In which year did the first Class 86 run between Carlisle and Glasgow?

How busy was the Route in that year?

What traffic would be seen in that year passenger/freight?

Any train Names and Numbers would be helpful and any other stories from anyone involved with the Carlisle-Glasgow section of the WCML from the period that the Class 86 started to run on that section would be great.

As before I hope to use lots of the information to produce a scenario rich in historic detail and facts for the Railworks 2 Train Simulator.

thanks.

 

[AJP62]

The WCML electification timetable to Glasgow (the 'Electric Scots'!) went live in May 1974 from memory so the 86s would probably have been around on test for a few months before that.

With this timetable during the day there were approx 6 or 7 Euston - Glasgow trains (one the 'Royal Scot'), 4 Bristol(one train)/Birmingham - Glasgow and Edinburgh (one the 'Midland Scot') and about 3 Liverpool/Manchester - Glasgow/Edinburgh variations. I think the 'Clansman', Euston - Birmingham - Carlisle - Cumbernauld - Perth - Inverness, came along with electification (may have been a bit later) going to diisel at Mossend. There was also the Glasgow - St Pancras 'Thames Clyde Express' which moved from the Dumfries to electric route around this time, changing to diesel at Carlisle.

Trains splitting for Glasgow/Edinburgh would do so at Cartairs which had a lot of activity in those days.

The 86s could be found on any of these though the 87s tended to be favoured for the Euston and Birmingham trains I think.

There was the daily summer motorail London - Carlisle/Perth which could be an 86. About 7 coaches plus say 12 flats, 3 dropped at Carlisle. Would extend well south of platform 3 going north.

Overnight there would be a rake of sleepers plus the Postal, parcels and Motorail trains. There was also a Carlisle - Perth Postal around 20.45 which had a couple of passenger carriages - only 3 or 4 coaches in total but that could be any of 81 - 86.

There would also be a lot of summer Saturday extras in those days both day and night. Mainly Mk1s.

A lot of freight was also electric hauled though that tended to be the 81s - 85s though Freightliners could often have 86s. There would also be car trains to Bathgate and Linwood (by Glasgow airport) - Cartic4s as well as flats.

The Beattock bankers were a pair of 20s then and these would be called upon to haul failed trains - often see them with a dodgy electric and train coming into Carlisle from the north.

Mid/Late 70s in Carlisle were my youth so probably more detail locked in my head if you need it!

 

[vectra33]

IIRC from that era the 86s didnt run passenger trains north of Preston on a regular basis as the climb up shap was too steep for them,this is why the 87s were built and they operated all the north of Preston scheduled services from London.
There were the "splitter trains " from Manchester /liverpool which were 81-85 hauled,and the cross country trains from Birmingham and further south which were also 81-85 Haulage.On these trains the electric loco was attached/deatched at Preston,as they were not timetabled as fast as the London services the lower power engines were ok.
The only regular 86 workings north of Preston I remember from the late 70s were the 86 0xx,which were all dedicated to freight.The 86 2xx class tended to be used on Man Pic-London services.

Dave

 

[Eldrivk]

Thank you.

Right, so the 86 was not powerful enough. That will be why it only does like 80mph up Beattock then in the game. Must have well modelled physics in the game. I have to use an 86 as the game only has that but this information here can be conveyed to the player during the game. I like to add 'history' as pop up messages when I build these scenarios.

Did the 86 haul freight on the line before the 'Electric Scot' made passenger runs then?

Also, did the Class 50 run Passenger runs as a Double Head Unit before electrification and during the 'cross-over' period?

 

[vectra33]

This might help you,its all off the top of my head from my days spotting back in the mid 70s,usually at Wigan NW.
When the AL6s became 86s they were made into 2 sub classes,86 0xx were made slower and were freight only,these did haul freightliners and possibly other freight in the period 1975-1979 as far as I can remember.
The 86 2xx were given new springs and higher powered engines,these were used mainly on man pic london services.

There were also 86 101/2/3,these are the locos you may be most interested in,they were the testbed locos for the class 87,these did all the test runs over beattock and no doubt test runs up to glasgow as well.
These 3 86s did carry on doing anglo scottish work due to their higher power.

The 50s definitely did double heading over shap before the electrification,they were attached/detached at Preston.

There is an excelent BTF film called "wires over the border" from this era ,this would give you a lot of the info you want.

Dave

 

[Old Timer]

The history of the 86s is actually quite complex, but the 36 class 87s were built exclusively for the London to Glasgow services and for passenger workings over Shap and Beattock. They also started to work the Pullman services once air braked stock wasd allocated to these services.

In the mid 1970s the 86s were in incredibly high demand, and the plan was that they would be released to London/B'ham/L'pool/Manchester/Preston passenger workings and overnight sleeper workings with a tranche reduced to 80mph and used on freightliners.

Services from the West Midlands to Glasgow became default Glasgow workings using 81s based out of Glasgow Shields.

Ironically in later years it was concluded that the 86s were better at starting from stations like Lancaster than an 87 during wet weather as they were less prone to slipping. !