dk1
Veteran Member
Oh yes agreed but it’s an improving picture.
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How busy have your trains been?
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Pairs of 321s going to Southend are full from Stratford although a lot of people get off at Shenfield.
Not remotely full when I’ve been on them! Accepting that definitions of full vary. (Mine is all seats taken, and 25+ standing per coach)
Odd. The 1715 about three weeks ago had most seats taken (some middle seats on the triples were vacant) and several people standing in the vestibules. I had a look on RTT to see if any trains before it had been cancelled but I couldn't see any.
WestRiding
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This thread makes very depressing reading. People basically, aren't really coming back are they.
They are, but in a very slow drip, drip, drip.
dk1
Veteran Member
Oh it’s not that bad at all. Off peak as roared back but commuting is taking longer. It may not get back to where it was & the service will alter accordingly.
That’s about what it’s like this week - on a train half the length it should be.
They are, but not so much for longer distance commuting. As the forecasts suggested.
Jamesrob637
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Yes but leisure and cheap Advances would currently appear to be the lion's share thereof.
Killingworth
Established Member
After 19 months WFH has become the accepted norm for millions of people. Employers have invested massive sums to make it work after having it thrust upon them with very little time to prepare. Zoom, Teams and the like are here to stay. The slow decline in season ticket sales pre-Covid indicated that many employers and employees were already moving in the WFH direction.
The social aspect of work is still there, but the monetary cost and time needed for commuting are strong counters when systems are in place to make many jobs easy to perform from home.
Trying to see positives, I recall conversations with a friend who managed a group of city hotels 25/30 years ago. He was ahead of his peers by introducng online bookings but predicted drops in business travel. He was right about online conferencing, yet until Covid face to face meeting venues were still booking well. (In hotel dining has been lost to the wide range of restaurants in city centres.)
Railways will have to adapt to the new market conditions. 5 day a week commuting is not coming back for many who used to endure it. Sone will be happy to travel longer distances but less often, provided there's a comfortable carriage where they can work on the move.
This.
When you can do your job perfectly effectively from home for most day to day tasks why would a typical Home Counties commuter spend £40+ to go to the office for the day and lose 2 hours (1 hour each way) of leisure/family time as a result?
Worth it from time to time for the social aspects or collaboration, but not every single day.
Change the price element of the equation, and it may be a different matter.
philosopher
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The trip reports on this thread do seem biased towards leisure journeys. A Saturday morning train from London to Brighton might be full and standing and get reported here, however a Wednesday AM peak time train from Brighton to London may only have half the seats taken and not get mentioned here.
Another factor is that the train frequencies are still reduced. If you are only running half the trains and passenger numbers are half what they were, the trains will still have the same level of busyness, assuming train lengths are the same.
dk1
Veteran Member
I'm back to work after two months off next week so I can build a better picture of peak time loading. The local 08:08 train I caught this morning had around 3-5 boarding daily earlier this Summer. Today it was 19.
The 1715 LST to Southend is a pair of 321 so only a third of the train missing. I've not done a peak hour 720. I've seen some at Stratford and Shenfield, also peak Hertford East trains that look rather cosy but hard to tell unless I'm on them.
When I commuted every day the daily price was reasonable vs one off day price, in my opinin. Of course across year I spent more than I do now but I travelled most days
If I need to make a journey now, I try to make it outside the peak, as it is cheaper and I don't want to pay the high one off anytime day price.
As I'm not making so many journeys, even outside of the peak, the railway is losing money compared to when I had my then season ticket.
If this is the case more widely then something will need to be done in order to keep funding the railway in some way. That is beyond the scope of this thread of course.
So having people back is good but the railway still needs funding in some way.
If I need to make a journey now, I try to make it outside the peak, as it is cheaper and I don't want to pay the high one off anytime day price.
As I'm not making so many journeys, even outside of the peak, the railway is losing money compared to when I had my then season ticket.
If this is the case more widely then something will need to be done in order to keep funding the railway in some way. That is beyond the scope of this thread of course.
So having people back is good but the railway still needs funding in some way.
You would also need teleporters, because the time factor is also relevant. Who wants to spend 2 hrs a day travelling when they dont need to?
£20 (say) per day with 2 hours travelling time is still a better proposition than £40 per day with traveling time.
Get the price per day right, and you might "upsell" people from a 1 day per week commute to a 2 day a week commute (and extra office social contact etc), but still keeping 3 days with more leisure time.
It was 4 cars on Monday....
About half the evening peak on the GE outer services is now 720s, usually single.
DannyMich2018
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Leicester station today. Just as busy as a pre Covid Sat. 11.50 to Birmingham ex Stansted. 3 car 170 seen leaving standing room only again. 4 car 222 to London quite full too. 11.50 arrival (ex Birmingham) 3 car 170 about 2/3 full. Generally very busy considering no top two football leagues playing today too!! I've also this summer/autumn travelled on weekdays including trips to Southport and Bury and witnessed very few quiet trains. Off peak Birmingham to Leicester stoppers always pretty quiet even pre Covid on weekdays. People are certainly back!
On the 07/09 i travelled on the 1900 from Kings Cross to York. The train was the busiest i have been on since restrictions were lifted and had few spare seats. Unfortunately they are still making announcements regarding wearing masks which fortunately very few seem to be taking any notice off.
I had travelled down to London on a Grand Central service on which their announcements made no mention of masks. I shall use them in the future if possible.
I had travelled down to London on a Grand Central service on which their announcements made no mention of masks. I shall use them in the future if possible.
Do tell LNER that you are doing that and why
james60059
Member
The trains on my local line (between Nuneaton and Leicester) seem to be having good numbers on them now, especially since CrossCountry reinstated their Pre-Covid timetable earlier this year.
But are they on el cheapo fares or paying full whack? The railway need the full fare traffic back. thats what pays the bills.
First trip in a while'
14.48 Workington to Carlisle - pretty quiet abt 25% full, but thats normal I believe.
16.09 Avanti Carlisle to Crewe very busy 90% full at a guess. Two other trains were also very busy.
18.16 LNWR Crewe to Stafford 8 coaches also very busy!
14.48 Workington to Carlisle - pretty quiet abt 25% full, but thats normal I believe.
16.09 Avanti Carlisle to Crewe very busy 90% full at a guess. Two other trains were also very busy.
18.16 LNWR Crewe to Stafford 8 coaches also very busy!
Was on the 15:03 Norwich to Stanstead Airport service today. It was packed. There were some spare sears best to people in this 4 car train but some were standing in the vestibule's and no doubt is they sat down, no spare seats
A lot of people alighted at Cambridge.
Contrast this to the 17:28 Cambridge to Three Bridges service. 12 cars and looked practically empty at Cambridge.
I was in the back declassified carriage and only 1 other person in it. By the time we left East Croydon, there was 4 of us.
If these were the only 2 trains running and one could magically make the carriages go where they were needed, you'd double the length of the Greater Anglia service to Stanstead and half the length of the Thameslink.
Of course in the real world that isn't possible.
Finally just the rail replacement bus to Haywards Heath. In Three Bridges station car Park, there was a long queue. Thankfully that was for the last bus to Brighton only.
I was going to be in the Lewes queue for the stopping bus to Brighton. That was in front of the long queue and soon we were called forward to board the bus. Already some people on it.
It was a double-decker and nearly all seats were taken
Don't know how long people had to wait in the fast bus queue. I wonder if hoarding the stopping bus would be faster. It seemed a long queue but buses are every 10 minutes so it might not be so long a wait
I'm not so keen on having to sit next to strangers right now. I did attend a concert last night but you had to show proof of vaccination etc. and whilst that isn't a perfect system, maybe it seems more reassuring than kn busy buses and trains.
A lot of people alighted at Cambridge.
Contrast this to the 17:28 Cambridge to Three Bridges service. 12 cars and looked practically empty at Cambridge.
I was in the back declassified carriage and only 1 other person in it. By the time we left East Croydon, there was 4 of us.
If these were the only 2 trains running and one could magically make the carriages go where they were needed, you'd double the length of the Greater Anglia service to Stanstead and half the length of the Thameslink.
Of course in the real world that isn't possible.
Finally just the rail replacement bus to Haywards Heath. In Three Bridges station car Park, there was a long queue. Thankfully that was for the last bus to Brighton only.
I was going to be in the Lewes queue for the stopping bus to Brighton. That was in front of the long queue and soon we were called forward to board the bus. Already some people on it.
It was a double-decker and nearly all seats were taken
Don't know how long people had to wait in the fast bus queue. I wonder if hoarding the stopping bus would be faster. It seemed a long queue but buses are every 10 minutes so it might not be so long a wait
I'm not so keen on having to sit next to strangers right now. I did attend a concert last night but you had to show proof of vaccination etc. and whilst that isn't a perfect system, maybe it seems more reassuring than kn busy buses and trains.
DannyMich2018
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I agree!! I travel on this route frequently. Also the EMR route out of St Pancras seems to be busy much of the time. Travelled through Birmingham a few week's on a weekday and peak hour service to Nottingham (2 car 170) was packed and our 3 car 170 to Leicester while not packed was easily about just over 2/3 full. Just seen 20.18 to Sheffield (10 car 222) leave Leicester really busy although there is reduced service Sundays for EMR. All in all yes peak loadings on some routes are lower but off peak and weekend services on many routes similar to Pre Covid.
Peregrine 4903
Established Member
I'm not really sure how someone can read this thread and say its all very depressing. Its clear passengers are coming back, slowly but surely and the vast majority of people aren't scared about travelling by train.
Its true that its unlikely to reach 2019 levels for the next at least 5 years I'd say and revenue is sadly going to lag even further behind and there are challenging times ahead, but people are still using trains, trains are getting busier and we are slowly creeping towards 70% of pre covid usage.
I'm sure people who deal with the financial numbers everyday have probably had a tough and rather depressing 18 months, but I feel like we are at least heading in the right direction, and that makes me optimistic for the future.
Its true that its unlikely to reach 2019 levels for the next at least 5 years I'd say and revenue is sadly going to lag even further behind and there are challenging times ahead, but people are still using trains, trains are getting busier and we are slowly creeping towards 70% of pre covid usage.
I'm sure people who deal with the financial numbers everyday have probably had a tough and rather depressing 18 months, but I feel like we are at least heading in the right direction, and that makes me optimistic for the future.
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