How busy have your trains been?

[route101]

0817 from Southampton Central to Oxford on Saturday. For a Saturday morning this train was very busy.

 

[The Ham]

I'm not really sure how someone can read this thread and say its all very depressing. Its clear passengers are coming back, slowly but surely and the vast majority of people aren't scared about travelling by train.

Its true that its unlikely to reach 2019 levels for the next at least 5 years I'd say and revenue is sadly going to lag even further behind and there are challenging times ahead, but people are still using trains, trains are getting busier and we are slowly creeping towards 70% of pre covid usage.

I'm sure people who deal with the financial numbers everyday have probably had a tough and rather depressing 18 months, but I feel like we are at least heading in the right direction, and that makes me optimistic for the future.

65-70% is about where we were in terms of passenger numbers about a decade ago.

Now whilst that is on a different mix of passengers, if commuting is where the levels are down then perhaps we should look to be having a all day railway timetable rather than significant changes at the peaks.

As that could allow the retirement of some rolling stock and remove the need for lots to be sat empty during the off peak.

Owning a car for traveling to work 5 days a week has a reasonable cost, however even with lower fuel costs the cost per day of use soon rises fast. Whilst many will keep it as they can afford it, with the potential of high energy prices squeezing household budgets there's likely to at least some who would get rid of one car (average cost of over £3,000 per year) in favour of paying up to £20/day to go by train once or twice a week.

It may only save £500/year, but that's the sort of increase in energy prices that are being talked about.

Add to that fuel prices increasing (August was circa 133p is now circa 140p), which will also squeeze budgets is like that more will say least consider where they could make savings.

 

[yorksrob]

Well, the passengers are coming back, as is the general tribulation factor after months of comparatively stress-free travel.

Cancellations, overcrowding, cancellations leading to overcrowding, short forms, surprise terminations short of the normal destination, surprise doors not opening at the station, all back with a vengeance. And all overlaid with some services that are still missing, which would otherwise have helped to mitigate the others.

 

[infobleep]

18:12 has about 10 to 12 people in the carriage I was in. This was possibly carriage 4.

In carriage 3 of the 18:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading service, which became carriage 1 upon leaving Redhill, I counted at least 22 people once we left Redhill. I couldn't see every seat so I'd expect more than. This

Quite a few got on at Redhill. So there must be some demand from that station towards Reading.

I don't know if the heating was on but I could feel a draft. Having a cold, I'd rather not feel this.

 

[squizzler]

I took to the rails yesterday. This was actually the first time I have done so since February 2020 because I went to ground in Jersey Channel Islands. I travelled thusly:

1650 from Plymouth to Paddington as far as Castle Cary: 2 x 5 car 80x - lightly loaded.
19xx Castle Cary to Weymouth as far as Upwey: 3 car Turbo - lightly loaded.
2011 upwey to Waterloo as far as Poole: class 444 - lightly loaded.

The light loading on the GW and SW mainlines was not much of a surprise since I was heading against the tidal flow out of London. I was transferring between the Santander and Channel Island ferry after spending three weeks on trains in Spain and Portugal. After the experience on Iberian trains, I found the British experience rather dismal. The waiting room and toilets were locked due to staff shortages at Castle Cary. The ticket inspector was avoiding any customer contact on the Heart of Wessex and SWT services.

Nonetheless my ticket, brought a couple of days in advance, was not especially cheap and this does illustrate how there is scope to reduce the fares on off-peak trains to a much greater extent to get more bums on seats. Being surrounded by a few more passengers would lead to a more pleasant ambience and greater sense of personal security.

 

[Butts]

On the 1400 LNER KGX to Aberdeen (as far as Edinburgh today) in Coach M 1st Class - virtually full and no one was wearing a mask including some of the staff.

 

[AgeoftheTrain7]

Here in South Wales we are constantly battling TfW for more carriages and service availability - the Manchester to Milford Haven Line is notoriously horiffic to have 2-3 car services max. and to be standing room only. Even on weekends and evenings, as well as early mornings, trains are rammed full. Avoid if possible - better alternatives on the much quieter Gloucester to CDF line, then onwards west with GWR to Swansea.

 

[TravelDream]

Here in South Wales we are constantly battling TfW for more carriages and service availability - the Manchester to Milford Haven Line is notoriously horiffic to have 2-3 car services max. and to be standing room only. Even on weekends and evenings, as well as early mornings, trains are rammed full. Avoid if possible - better alternatives on the much quieter Gloucester to CDF line, then onwards west with GWR to Swansea.

You are definitely not battling TFW (or their predecessor ATW). The rolling stock on this route was decided by the UK Department for Transport with their 'no growth' franchise given to Arriva a couple of decades ago.
The 175s are nice trains, but the two-carriage trains have far too low a capacity to operate on the route even during non-peak times and the three-carriage ones struggle. It's inevitable during the peak there'll be crowding and there's often crowding outside on the peak on the two-carriage trains.

The Welsh Government have ordered lots of new trains to operate on the route which will start entering service next year. Eventually, all trains between Swansea and Manchester will run five-carriage and all between West Wales and Swansea at least three-carriage.
That will obviously provide a significant boost in capacity.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Eventually, all trains between Swansea and Manchester will run five-carriage and all between West Wales and Swansea at least three-carriage.
That will obviously provide a significant boost in capacity.

Do you know what type of trains the 5-car ones will be? 175/0+175/1 or new ones?

 

[PHILIPE]

Do you know what type of trains the 5-car ones will be? 175/0+175/1 or new ones?

New CAF Class 197s which will be a mixture of 2 and 3 Car and which are now appearing. At the moment testing and training

 

[TravelDream]

Do you know what type of trains the 5-car ones will be? 175/0+175/1 or new ones?

The 175s are going (but we don't know where to).

They'll primarily be CAF Class 197s in a 3 carriage + 2 carriage configuration. They have gangways so passengers will be able to walk through all five carriages.
TFW have also acquired some Class 67s which will be used with Mark 4 carriages on Cardiff to Holyhead service and some Swansea to Manchester trains. I have to say, my feeling is they want to increase the frequency of the Holyhead service and use the stock there, but we will have to see on that.

 

[voyagerdude220]

The 175s are going (but we don't know where to).

They'll primarily be CAF Class 197s in a 3 carriage + 2 carriage configuration. They have gangways so passengers will be able to walk through all five carriages.
TFW have also acquired some Class 67s which will be used with Mark 4 carriages on Cardiff to Holyhead service and some Swansea to Manchester trains. I have to say, my feeling is they want to increase the frequency of the Holyhead service and use the stock there, but we will have to see on that.

Thank you.

 

[voyagerdude220]

New CAF Class 197s which will be a mixture of 2 and 3 Car and which are now appearing. At the moment testing and training

Thanks

 

[yorksrob]

The WCML seems as busy as it was in my student days (only now there's no smoking carriage to find a spare seat in !)

 

[dk1]

Back to normal on long distance Sunday trains this afternoon with LNER reporting services full & standing on the Kings Cross to Leeds/Harrogate route as well as the usual Anglo-Scottish services. The down ‘Highland Chieftain’ was also full from Haymarket but the Scotrail dispute would be a contributory factor. Avanti have crowding on various Manchester, Liverpool & Glasgow services as does XC into Manchester due to football. Even Hull Trains reported the 09:01 up was F&S from Grantham with the 14:36 being likewise from Retford.

 

[Dr Day]

XC Bristol-Cheltenham-Birmingham corridor may have theoretically the same amount of capacity per hour as it did pre-Covid, however the 170s on Cardiff-Nottingham seem to be taking a proportionally harder hit given the way the gaps in the timetable from the missing Manchester services fall. Yesterday (Saturday) appeared busier than pre-Covid, even after the Cheltenham Races punters had got off.

 

[ScotGG]

Recently I've travelled on SE, Thameslink, GA, EMR and all were very busy off peak.

No idea about peaks but a lot were standing room only or all seats taken during off peak times.

The old timetables really need to come back as some were uncomfortable and I'm sure people couldn't board some routes - though I've been wedged in and unable to see the doors!

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I was at Victoria station yesterday and the northbound Victoria Line Platform was so full that the queue to get on it was almost going up the escelator.

Some very busy services on the BML yesterday too. The 17:02 London Victoria - Brighton was full and standing leaving Victoria, and all services I could see where very well loaded for a Sunday.

However, on my regular commute, the LNWR commuters services out of Euston are still really quite empty, the 1746 Euston to Crewe which was once the most overcrowded train in the country, now while almost all seats are taken you should be able to get a seat. Really shows you just how big the drop off in passengers has been during the week.

 

[TravelDream]

Transport for Wales are having another fun day. https://www.journeycheck.com/tfwrail/

A relative is on the 10.52 from Cardiff to Manchester and I can confirm it is full with plenty of standing passengers.

 

[SE%Traveller]

Recently I've travelled on SE, Thameslink, GA, EMR and all were very busy off peak.

No idea about peaks but a lot were standing room only or all seats taken during off peak times.

The old timetables really need to come back as some were uncomfortable and I'm sure people couldn't board some routes - though I've been wedged in and unable to see the doors!

I agree re the off peaks at Denmark Hill on SE and Overground, it appears business as usual. Re Thameslink the Peaks are rammed to pre Covid levels since they halved the peak trains to 50% of the all day level back in September...

 

[Bikeman78]

Transport for Wales are having another fun day. https://www.journeycheck.com/tfwrail/

A relative is on the 10.52 from Cardiff to Manchester and I can confirm it is full with plenty of standing passengers.

They were lucky to have a three car 175. Other trains include a 150, a 158 and two 153s. 150235 had a good run north but was rammed heading south and then had extra stops Crewe to Shrewsbury. 43 late Shrewsbury and still only 43 late at Newport. Must be a good one!

 

[Bald Rick]

Re Thameslink the Peaks are rammed to pre Covid levels since they halved the peak trains to 50% of the all day level back in September...

Maybe in SE London, but certainly not north of the river.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Maybe in SE London, but certainly not north of the river.

Does seem to be that south of the river is faring better than north of the river in terms of commuting.

 

[Bald Rick]

Does seem to be that south of the river is faring better than north of the river in terms of commuting.

It’s short distance commuting faring better vs long distance, and there’s proportionally more short distance commuting south of the river.

 

[Llandudno]

Maybe in SE London, but certainly not north of the river.

Perhaps some of those north of the river are adding to the overcrowding on EMR express services..?

 

[Bald Rick]

Perhaps some of those north of the river are adding to the overcrowding on EMR express services..?

If you mean the Corby services - there isn’t really any overcrowding. But generally, it is the longer distance commuters that are the most reluctant to come back to the rails. Which is unfortunate, as they are by far the most profitable type of commuter.

 

[DannyMich2018]

Had our usual annual trip to Blackpool Sunday. 10.38 from Hinckley. 6 car 170 (2 units). Front unit very busy but rear one quiet. We were in 4th carriage. About 1/3 full. Then 12.20 Edinburgh train as far as Preston. A pair of 5 car 221s. Pretty quiet throughout this train but did pick up more on the way north. Then 14.20 to Blackpool. Pair of Class 331s. Very busy. Lots got off at Preston. Was in front carriage. Around 2/3 full this coach. At Preston observed a very busy 3 car 195 to Windermere and an equally busy one going to Manchester Airport. Both had standees on. Despite poor weather we've never seen Blackpool itself this busy!

 

[infobleep]

If you mean the Corby services - there isn’t really any overcrowding. But generally, it is the longer distance commuters that are the most reluctant to come back to the rails. Which is unfortunate, as they are by far the most profitable type of commuter.

They probably enjoyed saving the commuting costs.

Back to the thread point. Today on the slightly late 10:35 Haywards Heath to Hove service, in coach 10 of 12, no one else, save myself, until someone came to use the loo. Later someone else did the same but they both departed out of the coach again. It could almost be the first lockdown again so quiet.

In coach 9 I only counted 2 people at Haywards Heath.

Contrast this to Monday evening on the 17:11 Guildford to Redhill, which is only 2 coaches.

Busier, due to being 2 coaches of course, although even then I surprisingly got a set of two seats on my own.

I had to make haste for my connection as the train was around 2 minutes late and of course, we arrive into the far end of platform 0 but I did so. As an aside, they could do with a footbridge towards the end of platform 0 to enable better access to the other platforms.

Next train to Horley on time of course and if rather not claim delay repay but make my hydrotherapy class. In declassified first class at the back, it was just 1 other person and me. The standard class was a bit busier. I suspect people think it's first-class when it isn't.

At Horley, I boarded the 2-minute late-running non-stop 18:16 to Haywards Heath. I can't remember quite how busy it was but I don't remember it being overly packed. I got a table to myself.

Interestingly the train arrived into Haywards Heath 5 minutes early, which shows how slow it has to run normally. The train in front was delayed and running behind us. So normally this train couldn't run so fast and make 7 minutes of time.

It aaa nice to change trains are Horley. Probably the only time of day the journey planner will suggest it

 

[infobleep]

The 18:12 Haywards Heath to Gatwick Airport wasn't too busy in coach 4. I had plenty of space.

Not so on the 7 minutes late 19:29 Gatwick Airport to Guildford. At least they didn't start it short at Redhill, as I wouldn't have been able to get there.

At least 15 in the standard class section of the back coach upon leaving Gatwick Airport. I didn't check the first-class section of the coach.

Once we arrived into Redhill, 10 minutes late, the train filled up even more.

This must be a popular time, yet there is no 19:32 to Bedford, which would connect with the stopping service from Redhill to Reading.

Just an 8-minute delay from Redhill. Still, it is good to see the trains being used.

 

[cambsy]

Yesterday (Weds 03rd Nov), the 1045 Kings Cross-Edinburgh Lumo, was 90 per cent full, showing fully reserved on the departure board, and 16.12 Edinburgh-Kings Cross, was about 75 per cent full, with lots of reserved seats, so a good start for Lumo, bookings wise.