How far did the 4-TC sets get?

[randyrippley]

We've had recent threads about the 33 fleet traveling out of area on XC services, and even attempts to use 73s to get to Birmingham. But how far did their partners, the 4-TC fleet get?
Presumably any ETH fitted loco could haul them? Did they ever get beyond Birmingham as stand-ins on XC services? Or to Crewe from Cardiff?

 

[hexagon789]

We've had recent threads about the 33 fleet traveling out of area on XC services, and even attempts to use 73s to get to Birmingham. But how far did their partners, the 4-TC fleet get?
Presumably any ETH fitted loco could haul them? Did they ever get beyond Birmingham as stand-ins on XC services? Or to Crewe from Cardiff?

I know they've been at least as far as Bristol behind 33s and Exeter behind 33s and 50s; a railtour ran from Waterloo to Plymouth and Bere Alston with a 33 each end of two 4TCs sandwiching one of the wired buffet cars.

 

[Taunton]

What was the stock used on the late 1960s charter by the opponents to Stansted Airport expansion, who had been told the London terminal for the special airport shuttle trains would be Victoria? They certainly used a Class 33 for this one weekend, heavily portrayed and parodied on the television news at the time. It routed from Stansted station, Essex via Stratford, the NLL and WLL, all at normal speeds and behind various stopping services, and as you might imagine took over 2 hours for the trip! Given that the loco came from the Southern, possibly it brought 4-TC stock as well.

 

[randyrippley]

Yes, they got used occasionally on Portsmouth - Bristol, and also on the weekend Brighton-Plymouths
But did they get further?

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

London Underground’s set has travelled as far as Quainton Road

 

[Crewe Exile]

A 33/1 with 2 4TCs in tow ventured down the North Wales coast on a charter to Bangor from somewhere in the South in 1989 I think. It propelled the train back back down South - a most unusual site for the route!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Certainly Barking to Gospel Oak for a few days in 1999.

I suspect also Gwaun-Cae-Gurwen on a crankex from Waterloo. Not sure.

 

[LowLevel]

One went to Skegness. It should have been two but I seem to recall someone left a handbrake on and it and it's occupants were unceremoniously dumped somewhere in Greater London and the tour carried on with one.

 

[Beebman]

London Underground’s set has travelled as far as Quainton Road

I went beyond Quainton Road as far as Milton Keynes Central with a pair of TCs and two 33s (but topping and tailing) on HRT's 'Concrete Cow' railtour on 12/01/1985:

https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/80s/850112hr.htm

 

[Journeyman]

One was used in Scotland in 1996 for filming the first Mission: Impossible film. It was subsequently CGI'd to look like a TGV. It got a fair bit of coverage in the railway press at the time, but I'm afraid I can't remember much more than that.

Edit: the filming was carried out between Annan and Dumfries, apparently.

 

[Cowley]

I had a feeling that they made to Spalding on specials for the flower show/procession a couple of times in the 70s or 80s (33s definitely did)?
Struggling to find any evidence now though.

 

[peteb]

A 4TC set visited the Severn Valley Railway the other year.............

 

[RichJF]

Two 4-TCs made it to North Woolwich on a railtour once.

 

[davetheguard]

In late B.R. days they were the usual stock on the Sundays only, 33-hauled, hourly service from Reading to Portsmouth via Basingstoke. Mondays to Saturdays the service ran between Reading & Basingstoke only, operated by Hampshire type DEMU's (Thumpers).

 

[delt1c]

In late B.R. days they were the usual stock on the Sundays only, 33-hauled, hourly service from Reading to Portsmouth via Basingstoke. Mondays to Saturdays the service ran between Reading & Basingstoke only, operated by Hampshire type DEMU's (Thumpers).

I remember going from Portsmouth to reading in 1976 and being surprised that it was a 33/1 propelling a 4TC. My 1st journey on a TC and for me it was a novelty sitting in the last coach of an “EMU” listening to that sulzer

 

[Taunton]

My 1st journey on a TC and for me it was a novelty sitting in the last coach of an “EMU” listening to that Sulzer

For me the odd moment was sitting in one at Weymouth, 30 miles off the third rail, and hearing the familiar thumping underfloor compressor/motor generator start up. The electric power must have been transmitted from the loco. Was there ever any other hauled stock that had its own compressors?

 

[yorksrob]

For me the odd moment was sitting in one at Weymouth, 30 miles off the third rail, and hearing the familiar thumping underfloor compressor/motor generator start up. The electric power must have been transmitted from the loco. Was there ever any other hauled stock that had its own compressors?

For me the odd moment was sitting in one at Weymouth, 30 miles off the third rail, and hearing the familiar thumping underfloor compressor/motor generator start up. The electric power must have been transmitted from the loco. Was there ever any other hauled stock that had its own compressors?

I miss that sound !

 

[big all]

For me the odd moment was sitting in one at Weymouth, 30 miles off the third rail, and hearing the familiar thumping underfloor compressor/motor generator start up. The electric power must have been transmitted from the loco. Was there ever any other hauled stock that had its own compressors?

The reason for a Motor Generator on the TC was the southern practice of standardization. This means an MG to supply a 4-car and would mean a non-standard massive MG to supply 90v to a 12-car. Also a 33 may not be able to supply the voltage even through the 27 way jumper for a full 8-car but I simply cant remember? It also means any loco that can supply train heat will give control supply to charge batteries and provide light via the MG powered by the train heat jumper? As an aside 1963 stock (Cig/Big/Vep) have auto select so if an MG fails it will automatically connect to a working MG in another unit.

 

[eastwestdivide]

No further north, but they did go east into Kent on railtours, e.g. the Electro-Diesel Grice (https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/70s/790120da.htm) formed 73-TC-Mk1 buffet-TC

 

[Taunton]

The reason for a Motor Generator on the TC was the southern practice of standardization. This means an MG to supply a 4-car and would mean a non-standard massive MG to supply 90v to a 12-car. Also a 33 may not be able to supply the voltage even through the 27 way jumper for a full 8-car but I simply cant remember? It also means any loco that can supply train heat will give control supply to charge batteries and provide light via the MG powered by the train heat jumper? As an aside 1963 stock (Cig/Big/Vep) have auto select so if an MG fails it will automatically connect to a working MG in another unit.

I do recall, though not often, seeing a Class 33 at Weymouth with an 8-car formation working through to London. The push up through Upwey was notably slow. A Hymek on 8 coaches to Bristol was faster, though with even more noise.

The Class 33s when on the Waterloo-Exeter trains were also challenged on the hills there, and it was normal for the driver to switch the ETH off on the long uphills west of Salisbury, putting it back on again when over the top, which aided performance a bit. What would be the impact of doing this with a 4-TC I wonder.

 

[big all]

The Class 33s when on the Waterloo-Exeter trains were also challenged on the hills there, and it was normal for the driver to switch the ETH off on the long uphills west of Salisbury, putting it back on again when over the top, which aided performance a bit. What would be the impact of doing this with a 4-TC I wonder.

Apart from no heat nothing will be noticed other than light to emergency 10% on tc[63] stock till the batteries go flat and
that could be hours??

 

[High Dyke]

The Class 33s when on the Waterloo-Exeter trains were also challenged on the hills there, and it was normal for the driver to switch the ETH off on the long uphills west of Salisbury, putting it back on again when over the top, which aided performance a bit. What would be the impact of doing this with a 4-TC I wonder.

Slightly OT, but wasn't there a story that the 33 couldn't do a full round trip (or diagram) without running out of fuel?

 

[superalbs]

There's a pic of one at Pinhoe, which I find quite interesting.

4TC passes Pinhoe with an Exeter to Waterloo service

The unusual rolling stock of two 4TC units pushed by a class 33 forms an Exeter to Waterloo service in May 1983 shortly before the station was re-opened.

www.flickr.com

 

[hexagon789]

There's a pic of one at Pinhoe, which I find quite interesting.

4TC passes Pinhoe with an Exeter to Waterloo service

The unusual rolling stock of two 4TC units pushed by a class 33 forms an Exeter to Waterloo service in May 1983 shortly before the station was re-opened.

www.flickr.com

Not that uncommon, I believe there was a fairly regular turn for 4TCs on the WoEML during the 1980s

 

[Southof1E]

4TC's were used on specials from Dunstable on the branch from Luton in May 87 and 88 and as seen here 33111 at Dunstable Kingsway with the Dunstabelle II to Portsmouth on May 8th 1988. Happier times for the branch which in 2013 became a 94 million pound "misguided busway".

https://www.flickr.com/photos/79134428@N03/15454820083/in/album-72157645983626511/

 

[paul1609]

I remember going from Portsmouth to reading in 1976 and being surprised that it was a 33/1 propelling a 4TC. My 1st journey on a TC and for me it was a novelty sitting in the last coach of an “EMU” listening to that sulzer

Before the Solentlink electrification the football special to Eastleigh following matches at Fratton Park was comprised of 2 emus (usually 2 x 4 Veps) with a 33/1 on the back. Acceleration was quite rapid out of Fratton.

 

[Taunton]

Slightly OT, but wasn't there a story that the 33 couldn't do a full round trip (or diagram) without running out of fuel?

Might have been the Warships. They were a fairly compact loco and the underframe tank space was divided between diesel fuel and water for the boiler. The Class 33 of course didn't need the water so more space for fuel. Someone will have the tank capacities, and also whether using steam heat used more fuel than tapping the generator for heating. I recall the Warships used to refuel at Waterloo between trips, they would shunt to the north side sidings where the Eurostar terminal later was, and I think there was a tank wagon there to refuel from. At Paddington they ran to the fuelling point at Ranleigh Bridge, just outside the station.

I experienced the Warship fuel issue capacity myself in probably winter 1962, when they had taken over the daily Plymouth-Hereford-Liverpool service, running as far as Crewe, probably the longest run they had ever done. North of Shrewsbury in open country we came to a stand out of fuel; a Shrewsbury Black 5 came to our aid for the continuation, amazingly (compared to some recent incident recoveries) with only an hour's delay. The next year locos were changed at Bristol for a Class 47 northwards; I (much) later found out this had happened more than once.

 

[randyrippley]

there's a table at http://extra.southernelectric.org.uk/features/historical-features/watexdieselops.html
which gives the 33 fuel capacity at 750 gallons and the range as 600 miles irrespective of whether ETH was used or not, however some of the other tables on that page give details which look suspect to me, so that may be an error. With a distance Waterloo-Exeter of around 160 miles the problem would have been an inability to do TWO return trips - thats why the 50s were later used instead of 47/4.
The wiki page for the 42 shows the Warship fuel capacity as 800 gallons so range would probably be similar. Warships did have a habit of running out of fuel but I've read somewhere - possibly on here (??) that that was due to a failure to read the external fuel gauges

 

[High Dyke]

there's a table at http://extra.southernelectric.org.uk/features/historical-features/watexdieselops.html
which gives the 33 fuel capacity at 750 gallons and the range as 600 miles irrespective of whether ETH was used or not, however some of the other tables on that page give details which look suspect to me, so that may be an error. With a distance Waterloo-Exeter of around 160 miles the problem would have been an inability to do TWO return trips - thats why the 50s were later used instead of 47/4.
The wiki page for the 42 shows the Warship fuel capacity as 800 gallons so range would probably be similar. Warships did have a habit of running out of fuel but I've read somewhere - possibly on here (??) that that was due to a failure to read the external fuel gauges

Ah, I recall hearing in mentioned on a dvd of 33's on the Waterloo - Exeter route.