How long might it take to reopen the line near Stonehaven?

[Philip Phlopp]

I know that, but two months seems quite a while unless the bridge needs some rebuilding?

I'd guess less to do on the bridge, and much more to do on the ground stability and drainage front.

 

[InOban]

I should have said to search for pics under Carmont. There are pics both in railway forums and in the media such as the Press and Journal.

 

[najaB]

I'd guess less to do on the bridge, and much more to do on the ground stability and drainage front.

I could be (probably am ) wrong but the impression I got from reading what's been published so far was that the bank was basically stable in normal conditions, but that the intensity of the rainfall was more than the drainage system could handle and so material was washed down onto the tracks. Making the (huge) assumption that the bank is still basically stable, the remedial work should be a matter of installing larger diameter drainage pipes and making sure that the slope is clear of things that can wash down and block the drains.

While I appreciate that's not a trivial job, two months does seem a bit much, no?

 

[pdeaves]

While I appreciate that's not a trivial job, two months does seem a bit much, no?

There was a fatal accident. Thus, any works will be far, far more thorough than 'just patching up'. I am sure as it's possible to be that the final earthworks will bare little resemblance (from an engineering perspective) than what was there before. There will be a 'betterment' of the highest order.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

On the Manchester - Preston electrification scheme there was a burst water pipe at Moses Gate and they ended up putting very substantial "concrete pillars" in to stabilize.

Pile driving steel shafts in may not be too easy at Carmont given its location. Just wondering if that could be a solution.

This is the "before" showing extent of flooding etc.
https://www.blogpreston.co.uk/2017/08/disruption-on-trains-between-preston-and-manchester/

A bit (lot) ugly but this was the solution at Moses Gate

Picture of the concrete pillars solution to stabilize embankment/cutting after heavy water damage at Moses Gate
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/archive/rail-line-reopens-after-bolton-bridge-damage-06-09-2017/

Could it be a solution at Carmont?

 

[BayPaul]

Also, given the reduced number of passengers travelling at present, it is presumably much better to do a proper job now, rather than a temporary fix that will lead to future closures in the future.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Also, given the reduced number of passengers travelling at present, it is presumably much better to do a proper job now, rather than a temporary fix that will lead to future closures in the future.

Indeed so.

 

[InOban]

Work to reopen the railway at Stonehaven begins

Network Rail’s work to reopen the railway at Stonehaven will begin this week as it works to carefully recover the carriages involved in the tragic accident.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Network Rail’s work to reopen the railway at Stonehaven will begin this week as it works to carefully recover the carriages involved in the tragic accident.


The ScotRail service derailed on August 12 after striking a landslip with the devastating loss of three lives - driver Brett McCullough, conductor Donald Dinnie and passenger Christopher Stuchbury.


Specialist engineers will use a 600-tonne crawler crane to carefully lift the derailed carriages from the railway over the coming days.


Teams from across Network Rail and its contractors have carried out a massive amount of work at the site to prepare for this complex operation.


They have constructed a new 900-metre road and temporary bridges over the surrounding farmland to bring the specialist lifting equipment to the site.


Plans – developed alongside the police, accident investigators and other partner agencies – are now in place to remove the vehicles in a delicate process, which is expected to last for several days.

They're in a position to start carefully removing the carriages. They won't know how long reinstatement will take until after that is complete.

 

[92002]

Work to reopen the railway at Stonehaven begins

Network Rail’s work to reopen the railway at Stonehaven will begin this week as it works to carefully recover the carriages involved in the tragic accident.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

They're in a position to start carefully removing the carriages. They won't know how long reinstatement will take until after that is complete.

Latest Guess of the end of October. Considerable work to be done once site is cleared.

 

[InOban]

https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1303737725661728777?s=19

Crane now in position.

https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1303740182043254787?s=19

And another picture.

 

[92002]

https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1303737725661728777?s=19

Crane now in position.

https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1303740182043254787?s=19

And another picture.

That looks like a crawler crane on site. There are another 2 high capacity rail cranes which are at Inverness and will no doubt make their way to site. So that all 3 can work together to clear the site. Could be many weeks yet though with some major trackworks and a bridge to repair. As well as embankment strengthen before it can open up again.

 

[DarloRich]

I believe lifting operations are due to start tomorrow

 

[Swanny200]

Pictures on the BBC currently show lifting of the rear powercar being lifted by one of the cranes, I assume the still on track vehicles will be moved before the ones that are down the bank, interestingly on one of the twitter pictures shown earlier, someone said that the fire suppression equipment in the leading powercar is still intact which shows that it didn't go off, would that be expected or was it that the damage was so great that it couldn't?

 

[mcmad]

BBC report (link to BBC report) shows rear power car already lifted clear, although that is by far the easiest lift. No sign of the 2 kirow rail cranes yet.

 

[najaB]

...someone said that the fire suppression equipment in the leading powercar is still intact which shows that it didn't go off, would that be expected or was it that the damage was so great that it couldn't?

I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't triggered. It was designed to detect and respond to a fire in the engine bay during operation, rather than an external fire which it appears was the case here.

 

[Swanny200]

I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't triggered. It was designed to detect and respond to a fire in the engine bay during operation, rather than an external fire which it appears was the case here.

Is that a standard fitment on all Diesel Loco's or was it a recent thing on recommendation i.e from Ladbroke Grove?

 

[scotraildriver]

There's no way of tell if it's been triggered or not. The tanks look the same full or empty.

 

[John Webb]

Is that a standard fitment on all Diesel Loco's or was it a recent thing on recommendation i.e from Ladbroke Grove?

Diesel locos and DMUs have been fitted with fire extinguishing systems ever since their introduction on BR. But the sensing elements that trigger the discharge of the extinguishing agent are inside the engine compartment on locos (including HST power cars) and would not react to an external fire.

 

[DB]

Pictures on the BBC currently show lifting of the rear powercar being lifted by one of the cranes, I assume the still on track vehicles will be moved before the ones that are down the bank, interestingly on one of the twitter pictures shown earlier, someone said that the fire suppression equipment in the leading powercar is still intact which shows that it didn't go off, would that be expected or was it that the damage was so great that it couldn't?

Does it actually show that? Not sure how anyone can see that from the photos which have appeared online - all they seem to show is that the fire bottles are intact: they wouldn't look any different whether or not they had activated.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1303737725661728777?s=19

Crane now in position.

https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1303740182043254787?s=19

And another picture.

There clearly intending to recover the vehicles intact with that size of crane

BBC report (link to BBC report) shows rear power car already lifted clear, although that is by far the easiest lift. No sign of the 2 kirow rail cranes yet.

Shouldn't need the Kirow cranes with that Crawler crane should easily pick up the coaches with that reach

 

[Swanny200]

Does it actually show that? Not sure how anyone can see that from the photos which have appeared online - all they seem to show is that the fire bottles are intact: they wouldn't look any different whether or not they had activated.

That was the question I was asking to be honest, not that I would have thought with the amount of destruction that happened that it would have made much difference had the bottles gone off or not but I was wondering if they would have looked any different? I am not sure how fire suppression systems work apart from seeing them in the odd movie where the suppression agent leaves residue, also if they are pressurised which some suppression systems I would assume would be then them being intact shows that how strong they are.

 

[najaB]

Does it actually show that?

The comment was on a picture, but isn't necessarily about the picture - the person making the comment may well have information from other sources.

 

[92002]

The comment was on a picture, but isn't necessarily about the picture - the person making the comment may well have information from other sources.

The first power car has been recovered today. The plan is one vehicle a day. Although some are more of a challenge than others.

 

[DB]

The first power car has been recovered today. The plan is one vehicle a day. Although some are more of a challenge than others.

Where are they taking them? I assume RAIB will have specified somewhere with space for them to carry out further examination?

 

[Swanny200]

Where are they taking them? I assume RAIB will have specified somewhere with space for them to carry out further examination?

If that is the case would they usually utilise a Network Rail space close by like Stonehaven or Aberdeen that they could be given access to or would they have it removed and taken down to their own site in Derby

 

[DB]

If that is the case would they usually utilise a Network Rail space close by like Stonehaven or Aberdeen that they could be given access to or would they have it removed and taken down to their own site in Derby

Do they have sufficient space in Derby? Seem to recall that the Greyrigg Pendolino was taken to Washwood Heath.

 

[92002]

Do they have sufficient space in Derby? Seem to recall that the Greyrigg Pendolino was taken to Washwood Heath.

Well RAIB is based at Farnborough. The vehicles are being recovered to road trailers. So guess I would put 2 and 2 together and come up with 5.

 

[DB]

Well RAIB is based at Farnborough. The vehicles are being recovered to road trailers. So guess I would put 2 and 2 together and come up with 5.

It wasn't me who suggested Derby - I simply asked if anyone knew where they were taking them.

 

[Swanny200]

Well RAIB is based at Farnborough. The vehicles are being recovered to road trailers. So guess I would put 2 and 2 together and come up with 5.

They also have a branch in Derby though, IIRC that is also where the Chief Inspector is based

 

[92002]

They also have a branch in Derby though, IIRC that is also where the Chief Inspector is based

It's been reported elsewhere that RAIB have secured a 7 year lease on the St Rollox works site in Glasgow. That probably means the vehicles will be taken there for under cover storage.