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How Often Does a Driver Forget to Stop at a Station and What Are the Consequences?

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Loppylugs

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Back in 1990 I was photographing Hoovers on the Waterloo-Exeter route. Situated myself in the field by the bridge east of Whitchurch station awaiting the 07-52 stopper from Waterloo to Salisbury expecting a good shot of 50003 "Temeraire" as she coasted into the station....only it wasn't a sedate arrival! Whoosh, under the bridge and sudden realisation by the driver of his surroundings on went the anchors. Nearly got the last coach within station limits, but gingerly reversed into the station. With one train every hour it wasn't a problem.
 
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geoffk

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This has happened to me twice but the first occasion was on a charter train from Newcastle to Norwich in 1977, so not what the OP has in mind. We were booked to stop at Thetford, from where buses would take some of us to Bressingham, but the driver forgot to stop, or perhaps had the wrong information (?). We came to a stand at the next station but one, Eccles Road, apparently following the intervention of the signalman there, and the buses were diverted to collect everyone. The other occasion was in the 90s, on an evening Worcester - Birmingham train, one of the few booked to call at Barnt Green main line platforms. This was important as I was heading for Redditch. The driver pulled up too late, beyond the platform. I remember asking the guard if the train could stop at the next station where we passed a platform, which would have been Kings Norton, but Control either did not allow it or it was not worth contacting them just for me. So I was taken to New Street and went back home as by then I had missed the Redditch train and it wasn't worth waiting for the next (probably an hour later).
 

Watershed

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It's only really ever happened to me once; the station in question is on a 100+mph line and, at the time, was skip-stopped in one direction only. Not sure if the driver misjudged the braking point or simply forgot. I knew something was wrong when we were just half a mile or so out and still going at full whack! The driver gingerly did the 'walk of shame' to reverse a hundred yards or so back into the station.

Last weekend I was on a Thameslink service that 'failed to call' at Balcombe (which was added as a Special Stop Order due to a previous cancellation). The driver said nobody in Control had told him, to much amusement amongst the passengers.
 

Meerkat

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Will ECTS end any remaining reversing back - I have read that setting up a cab takes quite a long time??
 

Beebman

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It happened to me twice in nearly 30 years of commuting to London. The first time, in the late 1980s, a Waterloo - Reading train failed to stop at Winnersh Triangle and continued to Earley where I ran to the front of the train and complained to the driver but he just shrugged his shoulders and said 'sorry'.

The second time was some 20 years later when an evening peak HST service from Paddington with first stop Twyford continued through to Reading. The conductor apologised over the PA and when I sent an email to FGW I received an explanation that the driver simply forgot to stop.
 

Speed43125

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Back when Scotrail had the temporary 365s, I saw two overshoot the short platform 3 in Dunblane, it's a 25mph loop off the down line, one simply had the front set off doors maybe 1/4 of the way over the slope at the end of the platform. The driver opened his door and after looking down carefully at the position, walked to the back of the train and drove it back quite a bit further than was strictly necessary. Everyone was standing around impatiently at the doors as this was carried out!

Another time the train overshot by just over half a coach, similar process ensuing.

Anyone have a clue why this might have happened with 365s so much, given I haven't seen it was the DMUs before or the 385s since?
 

AndyDeltic19

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Had this one time a few years back getting a fast train out of Liverpool Street going Stratford, Romford etc. Quite a few people were standing up to get ready to get off at Romford including me but the driver never even slowed, went through Romford at full speed leaving many passengers looking at each other in much confusion!! Half way between Romford and Gidea Park the driver sheepishly apologised and stopped at Gidea Park to allow passengers to get off and have to catch the next train back one to Romford!!
 

colchesterken

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Happened to me several times at Forest Gate era 65-75 most trains ran Stratford Ilford Romford even the locals ran Stratford
Seven Kings all to Shenfield, only one aprox 15 mins stopped Forest Gate, no pa on 306s so just got dumped at Manor Park
No mobile phone, so cold tea
In about 1973 (no car saving up to get married), last train from Ponders End failed to stop driver just reversed back to me said "jump in" I had a cab ride to Liv St, Ahhh the good old days Would not happen now
 

LRV3004

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I used to be an on board cleaner for Virgin Trains in 2002 and had a “fail to call” on the service I was on. It was the 0658 from Manchester which only called at Stockport, Wilmslow, Watford Junction and London Euston. The driver blasted straight through Watford Junction only to realise too late. The train stopped a good way down the line and after a few minutes stood, had to continue to Euston. I can only surmise that after running all that way from Wilmslow, the driver was in “auto pilot” after going for at least 150 miles without stopping. It happens - we’re human, not robots!
 

Hardcastle

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Many years ago in BR days there was a Fridays only late afternoon Euston to Blackpool North train which after Preston was booked to call at Kirkham & Wesham + Poulton le Fylde it was crewed by a Wigan springs branch freight driver & could produce any available loco type. This particular evening it was a class 47 to cut a long story short we failed to stop at Kirkham & on approach to Poulton we realised we where not to stop there either but the guard or one of the enthusiasts applied the emergency cord or brake & we slowed to a stop with the rear carriages still on the platform a lucky escape.
 

dk1

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I used to be an on board cleaner for Virgin Trains in 2002 and had a “fail to call” on the service I was on. It was the 0658 from Manchester which only called at Stockport, Wilmslow, Watford Junction and London Euston. The driver blasted straight through Watford Junction only to realise too late. The train stopped a good way down the line and after a few minutes stood, had to continue to Euston. I can only surmise that after running all that way from Wilmslow, the driver was in “auto pilot” after going for at least 150 miles without stopping. It happens - we’re human, not robots!
Exactly. So easy done.
 

Bishopstone

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As a layman, I would have expected this sort of arrangement on modern rolling stock:

1. Driver keys in a headcode or somesuch, so the train knows where it should be stopping en route.

2. If there’s no brake activation at (or shortly beyond) the usual braking point for a booked station call, an advisory warning pings in the cab, perhaps followed by a second, more urgent warning if the driver remains unresponsive.

Do systems of this nature exist on new trains?
 

43066

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As a layman, I would have expected this sort of arrangement on modern rolling stock:

1. Driver keys in a headcode or somesuch, so the train knows where it should be stopping en route.

2. If there’s no brake activation at (or shortly beyond) the usual braking point for a booked station call, an advisory warning pings in the cab, perhaps followed by a second, more urgent warning if the driver remains unresponsive.

Do systems of this nature exist on new trains?
You register the headcode on the GSMR and, depending on stock, might type a route code into the PIS, but there’s absolutely nothing like the system you describe.

Some TOCs have driver advisory systems which (AIUI) display stopping patterns, distance to the next station etc., but nothing that would physically prevent a train from overshooting a station due to the driver missing the braking point.
 

dk1

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As a layman, I would have expected this sort of arrangement on modern rolling stock:

1. Driver keys in a headcode or somesuch, so the train knows where it should be stopping en route.

2. If there’s no brake activation at (or shortly beyond) the usual braking point for a booked station call, an advisory warning pings in the cab, perhaps followed by a second, more urgent warning if the driver remains unresponsive.

Do systems of this nature exist on new trains?
Not afaik. The PIS can be a help. Drivers are taught to use risk based commentary nowadays.
 

Old Yard Dog

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Merseyrail's Liverpool to Chester services often miss out stops between Birkenhead and Hooton to make up time if they are running late. This is because of tight turn round times at Chester. Intermediate stations are served by Ellesmere Port trains, trains having far longer turn round times at Ellesmere Port.

This practice is so common that they have a standard recorded message at intermediate stations saying "Passengers for Chester should board the next Ellesmere Port train and change at Hooton"
 

43066

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Merseyrail's Liverpool to Chester services often miss out stops between Birkenhead and Hooton to make up time if they are running late. This is because of tight turn round times at Chester. Intermediate stations are served by Ellesmere Port trains, trains having far longer turn round times at Ellesmere Port.

This practice is so common that they have a standard recorded message at intermediate stations saying "Passengers for Chester should board the next Ellesmere Port train and change at Hooton"

That would be decided by control and communicated to drivers (and guards) via a not to call order, specifying train train headcode and stations to be missed. A completely different kettle of fish to a failure to call.
 

43066

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There's no such thing as a "true" failure to call, really, that sounds like a bit of a messroom myth. FTCs and Station Overruns happen for a wide range of reasons, some of those will be (as you describe) a failure to call which is attributable to the Driver, but some are attributable to external factors too, which can be just as important to investigate and learn from - but they're still FTCs, just not ones which will 'tarnish' a Driver's safety record. It's just that the ones which will be most visible to Drivers are the ones where they're pulled in for investigatory interviews and medscreening etc, they don't see the other ones where the learning's happening elsewhere.


The railway does have a bit of a thing for thinking "oh, it's only an incident if the staff member did something wrong" when in reality if you take that view then you're gonna miss out on the learning from the sizeable minority of incidents where more factors came into play than just a staff member's omission or ill judged action; and you're also going to lose engagement from the front line colleagues in the safety reporting and investigation processes because they'll see it as punitive.
All valid points to be fair. From a driver’s perspective we are inevitably most interested in incidents which will end up following us around if we want to move TOCs, and potentially to job loss if one has enough of them. The blame culture on the railway is unhelpful, with incidents being generally swept under the carpet, and you only hear about them second hand. A better approach would be to share the details and learn from them, which to be fair our safety briefs are getting better at doing.
 

Irascible

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I can recall two incidents as a passenger.

Quite recently on the Paddington - Reading line where we sailed through somewhere (Burnham or Taplow) where the timetable said we should have stopped.

Many years ago on a Penzance-somewhere summer train. Very busy, I was in the corridor (Mk Is) when a family, laden with luggage, emerged from a compartment to alight at Tiverton Junction. As he moved toward the door (no central locking those days) I felt it necessary to say "he's not going to stop mate". And he didn't. Through at line-speed with the 45 on the front at full throttle! I told them to alight at Taunton, tell staff there'd been a "failure to stop" and they would arrange for them to join the next Down service (that was scheduled to stop at Tiverton Jn, of course). Though I was left with a fear that, like the Flying Dutchman, they were cursed to travel forever between Exeter and Taunton on a succession of trains flying through their intended destination! :D

I'm going to assume that last one was switched to the up through line, or going through the Jct at line speed would have got pretty exciting... was it actually booked there? someone forgot to tell more than just the driver then!
 
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Here's a video of a northbound Voyager after having failed to stop at Tamworth. In this particular case it was allowed to reverse back into the station, it stopped within sight of the station so it didn't exactly have far to go.

 

LPJOHN

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The late running 1204 Glasgow Central to Liverpool Lime Street failed to stop at ”Lea Green” today (19/07/2021).

The train eventually came to a halt some distance past the station, several minutes later it was announced that the signalman had told the driver to return to Lea Green which he did, we then continued as normal and arrived at Lime Street about 23 minutes late.
 

Horizon22

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You can actually see a driver fail to stop at a station in this cab ride:-
Skip to 13:40

So casual about it - right after ranting about a new breed of driver too! Completely different era of safety yet only 30 years back. Catford Bridge was it?
 
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the sniper

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So casual about it - right after ranting about a new breed of driver too! Completely different era of safety yet only 30 years back. Catford Bridge was it?

"Well they have loads of trains anyway down here..."* Pushes on regardless! Those were the days... :lol:

*To be fair, I think that comment was from the camera operator.
 
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Stigy

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Scuse my ignorance, but if a station has a stop signal at the end of the platform (Yes I know they dont all have them) then cant that signal be held at red till the train is in the platform with some sort of approach control. The signalling would have to know if the train is a stopper so non-stoppers are not held. up.
Just an idea....
It would probably be a lot of faffing about for the signaller unless it was automated. It wouldn’t be great for drivers ordinarily either as you’d naturally have to approach every platform you stop at like you’re approaching any other red signal, and some platforms (assuming you have a proceed aspect at the end), warrant faster approaches than others.
 

MotCO

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I can recall three incidents, two at Chelsfield. On the first, the train overshot the platform, but a few carriages landed on the platform. It was in slam door days, so many people jumped down into the cess. In the second, the train just failed to stop and continued to Sevenoaks. There were several people who wanted Chelsfield, so a fleet of taxis was laid on - not sure why they didn't just direct us to the opposite platform and arrange for a special stop on the next train. Also, if the driver had realised his mistake, why not call at Knockholt (the station after Chelsfield) instead, and allow us to wait forf the next stopper back to Chelsfield.

Chelsfield is a small station, and many trains were fast from London Bridge to Chelsfield, particulary in the rush hour, whereas the normal pattern is Orpington then Sevenoaks. I assume it was simple driver error.

Moving back in time (late 70's), I was waiting at St Margarets for the half hourly train to Kingston (and thence to Waterloo on the loop), which failed to stop. Not much I could do except sit and wait for the next one.
 
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