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How would the Underground look today if these stations closed?

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rebmcr

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The six very exact metres in question are between the entrances to Great Portland Street and Regents Park underground stations. I either need to stop or report my own post for being O/T.

That's a distance of 190 metres.
 
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Camden

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The six very exact metres in question are between the entrances to Great Portland Street and Regents Park underground stations. I either need to stop or report my own post for being O/T.
GPS and RP are more than 6 metres apart!!
 

kjarvo89

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I wonder why they operated it as exit only. To prevent overcrowding there, they should maybe relax a bit more with regards to the stairs, there are so many signs telling people not to use them when they could easily be used by more people so that that crowds can move quicker. Obviously those in poor physical fitness should have to take the lifts but it's common sense.

I bet that TfL wishes it was possible to convert the station to escalator use.


I don't know why there are so many signs saying emergency only. My and my friend went up the stairs at the weekend and they are no where near as bad as people are stating on reddit etc. There are only about 6 rotations and the stairs are tiny. You do a quarter rotation and go up about 20 steps. I didn't have to stop once and they were over before I knew it. There many be 193 stairs, but I don't think that it equates to 15 floors as the steps are tiny. It is 37.0m deep, so this is more like 9 commercial storeys deep, not 15. Maybe 15 floors in a house.

I can see how they would be tricky if it is busy, with people stopping for a break causing blockages and having people overtake where it is narrow and it wouldn't work as two way. My friend who is recovering from a virus had to pause for a second, but she has been ill. I think the average person would be fine and a fit person would find no problem. Maybe highly discourage the use, but not have as 'emergency only'.
 
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Scotrail12

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I don't know why there are so many signs saying emergency only. My and my friend went up the stairs at the weekend and they are no where near as bad as people are stating on reddit etc. There are only about 6 rotations and the stairs are tiny. You do a quarter rotation and go up about 20 steps. I didn't have to stop once and they were over before I knew it. There many be 193 stairs, but I don't think that it equates to 15 floors as the steps are tiny. It is 37.0m deep, so this is more like 9 commercial storeys deep, not 15. Maybe 15 floors in a house.

I can see how they would be tricky if it is busy, with people stopping for a break causing blockages and having people overtake where it is narrow and it wouldn't work as two way. My friend who is recovering from a virus had to pause for a second, but she has been ill. I think the average person would be fine and a fit person would find no problem. Maybe highly discourage the use, but not have as 'emergency only'.

Some people aren't physically fit enough to do them. The signs probably act as a deterrent to those who have poor stamina as they don't want to deal with any incidents on the stairs, that could become unsafe and may even lead to the station having to close for a few hours. There is a lot that could go wrong. Similar with Hampstead as whilst it's quieter, those stairs are simply way too long not to have significant warnings - even fairly fit people would struggle with them.

As CG is busy, I can understand the warnings. I can't say the same for quieter stations with <100 emergency stairs like Lambeth North, Lancaster Gate, Gloucester Road & Mornington Crescent. I swear that Chalk Farm is the only one which doesn't have the message of "do not use unless in an emergency".
 

Mikey C

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I find using the stairs fine during the morning rush hour, as then the only people using them are regulars, fit people who are capable of bounding up and down the the stairs without pausing

At other times of day, it can become far less pleasant, a large crowd inching up the stairs because a slow group up ahead are struggling is unpleasant, and probably dangerous.
 

AlbertBeale

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Some people aren't physically fit enough to do them. The signs probably act as a deterrent to those who have poor stamina as they don't want to deal with any incidents on the stairs, that could become unsafe and may even lead to the station having to close for a few hours. There is a lot that could go wrong. Similar with Hampstead as whilst it's quieter, those stairs are simply way too long not to have significant warnings - even fairly fit people would struggle with them.

As CG is busy, I can understand the warnings. I can't say the same for quieter stations with <100 emergency stairs like Lambeth North, Lancaster Gate, Gloucester Road & Mornington Crescent. I swear that Chalk Farm is the only one which doesn't have the message of "do not use unless in an emergency".

The two stations which I use from time to time which have spiral stairs are Russell Square and Lambeth North. If I've been there at a busy time, and there's a queue for the lift and I don't want to wait, I don't think twice about using the stairs - though I must be twice the age of the average lift-user. I really do think the "emergency only" signs are ridiculous.
 

rebmcr

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The two stations which I use from time to time which have spiral stairs are Russell Square and Lambeth North. If I've been there at a busy time, and there's a queue for the lift and I don't want to wait, I don't think twice about using the stairs - though I must be twice the age of the average lift-user. I really do think the "emergency only" signs are ridiculous.

As long as people exist who are both stupid and unfit, such an over-compensating sign makes sense.
 

edwin_m

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I guess nobody minds if the regulars choose to use the stairs, but if someone does so and injures themselves it's a defence against complaints or legal action.
 

The DJ

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My neighbour worked at Regent's Park for a little over a year before putting in for a move.
The combination of the very light passenger traffic and the grim (below the surface) environment apparently makes it a soul destroying place to work if you really want somewhere with more to do. Appantely one BC used to play with the ticket gates, pressing a button somewhere so a gate would spring open as a passenger approached it ticket in hand.
 

Howardh

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I have a feeling Mornington Crescent would have closed permanently if it hadn't been for Radio 4 listeners and the Mornington Crescent game. They probably helped it to stay open.
Directly opposite the entrance is the Lyttleton Arms!!
 

Recessio

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Following on from that, I wonder if TfL would ever consider closing any stations today?

Watford Met, if the Croxley Rail Link goes ahead (recent news that Herts council might push for it again.) Though I think the plan is to keep the track for stabling, just closing the station.
 

rebmcr

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Watford Met, if the Croxley Rail Link goes ahead (recent news that Herts council might push for it again.) Though I think the plan is to keep the track for stabling, just closing the station.
It does seem unnecessary to keep the station facilities in order — even in the case of NR engineering possessions through Watford High Street, Met trains could still just terminate at Vicarage Road without having to revert to Watford.
 

Irascible

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I have a feeling Mornington Crescent would have closed permanently if it hadn't been for Radio 4 listeners and the Mornington Crescent game. They probably helped it to stay open.
I remember back at the time pretty much everyone I asked passing through it ( I did ask people, sometimes! it *is* possible to talk to strangers on the tube ) assumed it was never going to reopen. There were lights on & boards up for years, but no sign of anything actually happening.
 

airinter

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I remember back at the time pretty much everyone I asked passing through it ( I did ask people, sometimes! it *is* possible to talk to strangers on the tube ) assumed it was never going to reopen. There were lights on & boards up for years, but no sign of anything actually happening.
Mornington Crescent was closed "temporarily" for what should have been a paint job and lift maintenance. It was on the quiet end of Camden High Street and there were far less tourists, Camden Lock was much much smaller and most stalls were only trading on certain days. Initially one could see some minor work on the platform but later it was said that either the lifts were beyond repair or some structural problem with the shaft or something like that and expenses would not be justified as the station was not very popular before the closure, it did not serve the Bank branch and there was no urgency to relieve Camden Town. Those were the days of the "misery line" with the 59 stock frequently breaking down and many other stations in poor conditions, so Mornington Crescent was probably the least of London Transports concerns.
 

miami

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The excellent Jago Hazzard did a 6 minute video on Covent Carden this week


Covering the reason it was quiet, why it was mooted for closure (twice), and the idea of a tunnel from Covent Garden to Temple which is something I'd never heard of before.
 

Djgr

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I wonder whether closing the Aldwych branch was a mistake?
 

miami

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As a shuttle service? Or with through traffic north. If the latter that massively reduces capacity on the picadilly line south of Holborn.
 

Djgr

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As a shuttle service? Or with through traffic north. If the latter that massively reduces capacity on the picadilly line south of Holborn.
Feels like it would be quite a nice useful shuttle.
 

BayPaul

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Feels like it would be quite a nice useful shuttle.
I reckon they got it right to close it. The area is pretty densely filled with underground stations anyway, and it's not a long walk from Temple or Covent Garden. Awkward little branches like this tend to distract from what TfL are good at - running high density frequent services through London efficiently. It was always a historical accident anyway, left over from the shoehorning of two schemes into the Piccadilly. With its short platforms and lifts it would have been a nightmare these days - needing a custom designed train rather than the new stock planned for Piccadilly.
 

miami

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Maybe if the DLR from Bank were extended through City Thameslink, Aldwych to Charing Cross as occasionally comes up, some trains could be sent upto Holborn. I suspect the tunnels aren't large enough though.
 

Snow1964

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Maybe if the DLR from Bank were extended through City Thameslink, Aldwych to Charing Cross as occasionally comes up, some trains could be sent upto Holborn. I suspect the tunnels aren't large enough though.

At one point there was a proposal to make a connection from the end of Waterloo and City (far end of Waterloo depot) to Aldwych. Rather a loopy route, but apparently the tunnel depth at Aldwych is deep enough to go under the river.

Not as mad as it seems at first because it would have provided a quick link to the Holborn (or Midtown as sometimes called) and Fleet Street areas using the contra-peak capacity.

My understanding is would have been fairly easy to dig using the park opposite Old Vic theatre as a worksite. The problem was the Holborn end where the relatively short 4th platform was not suitable (due to the historic error during construction of the platform level), and need to construct an additional crossover south of Holborn to allow 2 reversing platforms
 

leytongabriel

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Just how busy is Hyde Park Corner station? Looking on a map, it is largely surrounded by parkland: Hyde Park (obviously!), Green Park and Buckingham Palace Gardens. There are very few areas that don't look to be almost equally well served by either Knightsbridge or Green Park stations.
Hyde Park is busy park for both tourists and Londoners.And when Winter Wonderland is on ....!
 

AlbertBeale

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At one point there was a proposal to make a connection from the end of Waterloo and City (far end of Waterloo depot) to Aldwych. Rather a loopy route, but apparently the tunnel depth at Aldwych is deep enough to go under the river.

Not as mad as it seems at first because it would have provided a quick link to the Holborn (or Midtown as sometimes called) and Fleet Street areas using the contra-peak capacity.

My understanding is would have been fairly easy to dig using the park opposite Old Vic theatre as a worksite. The problem was the Holborn end where the relatively short 4th platform was not suitable (due to the historic error during construction of the platform level), and need to construct an additional crossover south of Holborn to allow 2 reversing platforms

Re "Midtown as sometimes called". Only by estate agents and "developers" who neither know nor care about those of us who live, or run small businesses, in the area. The idea for that name was as a commercial brand, floated by some large businesses, and linked to a scheme to organise a local [selectively] promotional body funded by council tax. The ideas was "tested" at two meetings I was at, both involving representative local bodies [and possibly at another meeting I wasn't involved in]; one of the meetings had Council involvement, but turned out to have been initiated by "outside interests" without those attending knowing in advance who they were; I can't remember the exact basis of the other meeting. In one of the meetings, there was a survey of where people in the area considered the boundaries of local named districts to be, and - part-way through - the "midtown" idea was thrown into the heap without notice; at the other meeting, a reference to "midtown" was fed into a discussion to which it seemed wholly irrelevant. At both meetings the idea of re-naming some of the area (and it seemed to relate to Bloomsbury at least as much as to Holborn) was literally laughed out. Literally not a single person from the area had a good thing to say about the suggestion; on the contrary, the people who clearly had no genuine interest in the views of the people of the area were sent away with a flea in their ear. People present from the Council were told in no uncertain terms not to have anything to do with these people. Now, years later, any Council official attending a local residents' meeting, or similar, in the area, knows not to go near the name "midtown" if they don't want things to be thrown at them.

(But money talks.)
 

Djgr

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I reckon they got it right to close it. The area is pretty densely filled with underground stations anyway, and it's not a long walk from Temple or Covent Garden. Awkward little branches like this tend to distract from what TfL are good at - running high density frequent services through London efficiently. It was always a historical accident anyway, left over from the shoehorning of two schemes into the Piccadilly. With its short platforms and lifts it would have been a nightmare these days - needing a custom designed train rather than the new stock planned for Piccadilly.
Though if the figures are to be believed, closure saved relative buttons financially
 

edwin_m

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Though if the figures are to be believed, closure saved relative buttons financially
In operating costs maybe, although eliminating say 10 full time equivalent drivers and station staff would save around £1m per year at today's prices. In the case of Aldwych I believe closure was triggered by the need to spend a lot of money on the lifts - similar to Mornington Crescent which was reprieved as discussed above.
 

BayPaul

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In operating costs maybe, although eliminating say 10 full time equivalent drivers and station staff would save around £1m per year at today's prices. In the case of Aldwych I believe closure was triggered by the need to spend a lot of money on the lifts - similar to Mornington Crescent which was reprieved as discussed above.
It would also be a pain to crew - assuming it didn't have its own mini-depot, drivers would presumably need to ride as a passenger all the way from Acton Town or Arnos Grove before and after each shift. Given that, I suspect you are optomistic to think it could be run with 10 FTE staff.
 

edwin_m

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It would also be a pain to crew - assuming it didn't have its own mini-depot, drivers would presumably need to ride as a passenger all the way from Acton Town or Arnos Grove before and after each shift. Given that, I suspect you are optomistic to think it could be run with 10 FTE staff.
To clarify, I was thinking 10 FTE staff for the latter-day peak-only service. It would be a lot more if it ran for the full operating day.
 
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