Huddersfield 'short platform'

[sjm77]

I was recently on a Westbound TPEx service formed of 2 x 3-car 185s. I was surprised that on departure from Dewsbury the PIS inside the carriage informed us that the platform at Huddersfield was too short for our train and that only the doors in the front 5 coaches could be used. We slid into Huddersfield and sure enough all 6 cars fitted extremely comfortably on to the platform! In fact the Sectional Appendix gives a useable Platform length of 180 metres for Huddersfield Platform 1 compared to a 6-car 185 having a length of 143 metres (source: Wiki). So what the hell is going on????

More importantly for TPEx on my service there was no verbal announcement given of this! Anyone daydreaming, reading a book, or visually impaired in the last coach would have potentially missed their stop. Only those who happened to look at the PIS at the same time as the message was displayed (as it scrolled through may others) were informed of the allegedly short platform. As we left the last coach to move forwards we had to encourage those stood at the train doors to move forwards with us!

 

[scrapy]

If the train hasn't been set up to know which platform it's arriving on then it will default to announcing based on the shortest platform at that station programmed in. In the case of Huddersfield this may be platform 2? Not sure on platform lengths there so am guessing. Does it at Sheffield a lot on 6 cars despite the full train fitting on. Despite what the PIS says all carriages are released there and also happens on Northern approaching Preston.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If the train hasn't been set up to know which platform it's arriving on then it will default to announcing based on the shortest platform at that station programmed in. In the case of Huddersfield this may be platform 2? Not sure on platform lengths there so am guessing. Does it at Sheffield a lot on 6 cars despite the full train fitting on. Despite what the PIS says all carriages are released there and also happens on Northern approaching Preston.

The shortest platform at Huddersfield is P5 at around 40m. I'd be surprised if P2 (which could take 2x23m even before the extension last year) is even in TPEs ASDO system with it being the dedicated bay for Sheffield services.

 

[_toommm_]

I asked this question before on a separate thread, and here’s the excellent answer I got:

Yes, sorry I was adding on to that another quirk

Huddersfield platform 8 doesn’t accommodate a 6 car unless the driver draws close to the signal and beyond the purple stop board for the Nova fleet which is why the announcement plays towards Leeds. (Admittedly it does it for platform 1 towards Manchester too when it shouldn’t)

 

[sjm77]

If the train hasn't been set up to know which platform it's arriving on then it will default to announcing based on the shortest platform at that station programmed in. In the case of Huddersfield this may be platform 2?

I presume (dangerous I know) that Scrapy was thinking about the middle road which is actually Platform 4 and long enough for 6 car at 172/213 metres depending on direction.

Thanks _Toommm_ for the actual explanation which seems to be that the computer was programmed incorrectly by a human!

 

[RHolmes]

Yes as I’ve stated in another thread (posted above by toommm) it’s due to the beacon position on Platform 8 which does not release the doors if the last carriage is a first class carriage and the driver has not stopped beyond the purple stop board (Most drivers are aware of this as are all conductors so it is rare for this to happen)

Platform 6 will not open all doors if the first class carriage is at the signal end of the platform for the same reason, the beacon reader is in a different location due to the universal toilet and battery box position

(It will also do the same on the Cleethorpes line at Sheffield due to the crossover on platform 1B)

 

[YorksLad12]

Coincidentally, I was on a two-car class 195 from Leeds to Sheffield three weeks ago when an automated audio and screen announcement popped up to say that at the next calling point the train would be too long for the platform, and that passengers shouldn't use the front-most doors.

Everyone either misunderstood or ignored it and walked forward as we called at Sheffield P5a, which is plenty long enough for four cars, let alone two. The front car was labelled D though, so something wasn't programmed properly somewhere as you don't get four cars from Leeds to Sheffield semi-fast as a rule. Annoyingly, the guard didn't overrule the automated announcement.

 

[Crossover]

Platform 6 will not open all doors if the first class carriage is at the signal end of the platform for the same reason, the beacon reader is in a different location due to the universal toilet and battery box position

I was on a 185 into p6 last weekend and I am pretty sure Std was at the signal end of the platform, and the back carriage doors didn't open

Either way, it isn't so much of an issue as such, but given the PIS announces a short platform for p1 (when it isn't), it left a few of us standing there like lemons on p6 assuming the guard hadn't yet released, as there was no announcement to say that the carriage doors wouldn't open.

I guess the system needs some work to fettle it!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I was on a 185 into p6 last weekend and I am pretty sure Std was at the signal end of the platform, and the back carriage doors didn't open

Either way, it isn't so much of an issue as such, but given the PIS announces a short platform for p1 (when it isn't), it left a few of us standing there like lemons on p6 assuming the guard hadn't yet released, as there was no announcement to say that the carriage doors wouldn't open.

I guess the system needs some work to fettle it!

For some reason the ASDO has an issue with P6, presumably because it's only just long enough and there's no margin for error. Guards or the onboard robot usually announce it though.

The obvious solution would be to use P4a like they used to in 2018-19, and move the Northern Bradford service to P6.

 

[Spartacus]

The obvious solution would be to use P4a like they used to in 2018-19, and move the Northern Bradford service to P6.

That's one big can of worms as that might mean doing something else with the Leeds - Huddersfield via Dewsbury, and that's a route we don't want to be going down again.......

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That's one big can of worms as that might mean doing something else with the Leeds - Huddersfield via Dewsbury, and that's a route we don't want to be going down again.......

It's the Leeds to Huddersfield via Dewsbury stopper that I'm talking about. It used P4a from late 2018 (when the "semis" were split at HUD) without conflict, and could be now. Just needs the Northern Bradford service to swap platforms with. So far as I can tell, nothing else need change.

Far fewer passengers use the Bradford service, and it can fit in P6 without any on-board computer systems throwing a hissy-fit unlike the 185s. Unless I'm missing something (and if so, please point it out) swapping the platforms for those two services is a complete no-brainer.

 

[YorksLad12]

It's the Leeds to Huddersfield via Dewsbury stopper that I'm talking about. It used P4a from late 2018 (when the "semis" were split at HUD) without conflict, and could be now. Just needs the Northern Bradford service to swap platforms with. So far as I can tell, nothing else need change.

Far fewer passengers use the Bradford service, and it can fit in P6 without any on-board computer systems throwing a hissy-fit unlike the 185s. Unless I'm missing something (and if so, please point it out) swapping the platforms for those two services is a complete no-brainer.

From memory that stopper ran half the time from 4a, half the time from 6 when Northern had it. I think it was to do with the time of day, to be honest, where people congregated and where units had to end up at closing time. P4a would be used by the LNER service in the evening, it it was running; it was in the platform last time I was there so the stopper went off 6.

I am off to Huddersfield this evening for the first time in 18 months so might pay some attention to what's occuring...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

From memory that stopper ran half the time from 4a, half the time from 6 when Northern had it. I think it was to do with the time of day, to be honest, where people congregated and where units had to end up at closing time. P4a would be used by the LNER service in the evening, it it was running; it was in the platform last time I was there so the stopper went off 6.

I am off to Huddersfield this evening for the first time in 18 months so might pay some attention to what's occuring...

Back when Northern ran the Leeds stopper, it and the Bradford did alternate between 4a and 6, but the Bradford used 6 more than the Leeds. Though back then, the Wakefield also used 4 or 5. When the Bradford and Wakefield were linked it tended to use 6 towards Bradford and 4a towards Wakefield.

 

[skyhigh]

Coincidentally, I was on a two-car class 195 from Leeds to Sheffield three weeks ago when an automated audio and screen announcement popped up to say that at the next calling point the train would be too long for the platform, and that passengers shouldn't use the front-most doors.

Everyone either misunderstood or ignored it and walked forward as we called at Sheffield P5a, which is plenty long enough for four cars, let alone two. The front car was labelled D though, so something wasn't programmed properly somewhere as you don't get four cars from Leeds to Sheffield semi-fast as a rule. Annoyingly, the guard didn't overrule the automated announcement.

The ASDO system on a 195 is a completely different kettle of fish compared to the 185s. 185s use beacons, whereas 195s use odometry and GPS. With beacons, the train knows which platform it's on and will open the required number of doors accordingly. The system on a 195 isn't precise enough to tell which platform you're on, so it'll default to the shortest possible platform at that station unless the driver overrides it before arrival (the guard can override the announcements at any point and which doors will open when the train comes to a stand). There's an update coming that will enable the system to default to the booked platform however. The 'original' issue where the train announced it wouldn't fit at stations where all the platforms were long enough has been fixed now - an error in the database meant that some platforms were incorrectly shown as 0m long...

The 195/0s (when running solo) always have coach letters A and D. When they're in pairs they show as A B C D - with A and D always being DMS/DMSL. This means if a booked double set ran solo then any seat reservations in A and D would still be applied correctly. It's a bit of a moot point though seeing as there's no plans to bring in seat reservations.

 

[Halifaxlad]

This also happens at Halifax so presumably anywhere that begins with a H