I didn't think services were reduced this much !

[Justin Smith]

I was planning a day to the NRM with my 8 year old, till I found out it had to be pre booked and there were no slots left. Anyway, I booked a different day to the one I'd originally planned, and then went on the UK Journey Planner to sort the train times. We normally drive to Swinton then get a train to Donc and change. However, there is only one train an hour now between Swinton and Donc, and, for most hours, effectively one train an hour between York and Donc. The connection is either too long or too short if it risks an hours wait for the next train.
I am seriously thinking of driving....
I must say I am shocked how sparse the service has become. How are they going to encourage people back onto the trains with such a crap service ?

 

[berneyarms]

I was planning a day to the NRM with my 8 year old, till I found out it had to be pre booked and there were no slots left. Anyway, I booked a different day to the one I'd originally planned, and then went on the UK Journey Planner to sort the train times. We normally drive to Swinton then get a train to Donc and change. However, there is only one train an hour now between Swinton and Donc, and, for most hours, effectively one train an hour between York and Donc. The connection is either too long or too short if it risks an hours wait for the next train.
I am seriously thinking of driving....
I must say I am shocked how sparse the service has become. How are they going to encourage people back onto the trains with such a crap service ?

As has been pointed out numerous times this isn’t something the TOCs are doing deliberately.

Covid has meant that staff training is way behind where it ought to be, and that means driver shortages at many TOCs until the backlog of training is cleared.

At the same time the amount of staff out self-isolating due to being “pinged” is very large across the network currently and that means that there aren’t the crews available to operate the normal service.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

I thought that transport workers were exempt from self isolation so long as they have negative tests.
When is that starting?

 

[PHILIPE]

I thought that transport workers were exempt from self isolation so long as they have negative tests.
When is that starting?

Not all sectors of the Transport Industry

 

[johnnychips]

Back to the OP, there is only one Sheffield stopper an hour to Doncaster instead of two pre-Covid and there are only two XC trains a day instead of hourly. What is annoying is that the three trains an hour to Doncaster from Sheffield depart at about xx55 (Northern to Scarborough), xx05 (stopper, overtaken while going through Rotherham) and xx11 (TPE to Cleethorpes), and coming back at xx21, xx35 (overtaken as above) and xx42. Ironically during Covid the stoppers departed at about xx30 from Sheffield and about xx05 from Donny. I think this has happened because Adwick has been served again now.

 

[Justin Smith]

The thing is driving to Swinton, parking there, then catching the train to Doncaster is by far the fastest and most convenient way to travel (North particularly) from NW Sheffield where I live. But, as you say, the service has halved from two and hour to one an hour. The alternative is to get the Supertram link bus SE, then the Supertram SE again, then, finally, the train northwards from Sheff. It's far slower even if they all connect, which they often don't anyway.

There are actually many more trains between Swinton and York, but many are via Leeds. The journey planner seems unsure if these would require an extra fare, is that the case ? Though, TBH, If I do end up going via Leeds I will just argue with any ticket inspector that I am being forced to use that particular train because the normal service is way poorer than it is usually

 

[D6975]

There are actually many more trains between Swinton and York, but many are via Leeds. The journey planner seems unsure if these would require an extra fare, is that the case ? Though, TBH, If I do end up going via Leeds I will just argue with any ticket inspector that I am being forced to use that particular train because the normal service is way poorer than it is usually

Sadly a poor or infrequent service is not seen as an excuse to use a ticket via an invalid route. This has come up on here before several times before. Leeds-Goole is a classic example. Cheapest tickets are routed via Knottingley (extremely infrequent), via Doncaster (the sensible option ) is considerably more expensive.

 

[Justin Smith]

Sadly a poor or infrequent service is not seen as an excuse to use a ticket via an invalid route. This has come up on here before several times before. Leeds-Goole is a classic example. Cheapest tickets are routed via Knottingley (extremely infrequent), via Doncaster (the sensible option ) is considerably more expensive.

But what's different this time is the service is not at its usual level, which was 2 or 3 an hour, now it's only 1 an hour, and the far less frequent service is on both sections of the journey doubling the problems. Without wishing to sideline this onto Covid, the country has ripped up the rule book for stuff much less defensible than using a different route because Covid suppression has halved the frequency of the service ! TBH, had we had to use the Leeds route I'd have been very surprised if the guard didn't just accept it.

As has been pointed out numerous times this isn’t something the TOCs are doing deliberately.

Covid has meant that staff training is way behind where it ought to be, and that means driver shortages at many TOCs until the backlog of training is cleared.

At the same time the amount of staff out self-isolating due to being “pinged” is very large across the network currently and that means that there aren’t the crews available to operate the normal service.

I don't think it's down to the "Pingdemic" as the platform timetable (valid until from July to December) only had one service and hour listed, as opposed to the usual 2 or 3.

 

[berneyarms]

I don't think it's down to the "Pingdemic" as the platform timetable (valid until from July to December) only had one service and hour listed, as opposed to the usual 2 or 3.

As I said there are two basic issues. Pingdemic is, hopefully, a short term issue.

The other one is the shortage of drivers due to a backlog of training across many TOCs which has built up during the Covid restrictions since last year. Drivers have retired or left and have yet to be replaced as their replacements aren't fully trained, and others need to be trained up on new rolling stock.

That's what caused the "platform" timetable as you call it that became effective in May to be reduced from the normal for many TOCs across the network.

That is going to take longer to recover from as that training cannot happen any quicker than normal.

Of course LNER also have a reduced timetable due to the cracks on the Azuma fleet.

Sadly the railway is an industry that really has been knocked for six by this.

 

[30907]

But what's different this time is the service is not at its usual level, which was 2 or 3 an hour, now it's only 1 an hour, and the far less frequent service is on both sections of the journey doubling the problems. TBH, had we had to use the Leeds route I'd have been very surprised if the guard didn't just accept it.

I was surprised to see NRE doesn't allow it anyway, as there is no VIA LEEDS fare ( even from Sheffield).
At least the once an hour connection is reasonable.

 

[158801]

Are the train times Really that bad?

Swinton to York, at the moment, is usually a 20 minute wait in Doncaster. I don't think this is any different to the pre-covid service level.
York to Swinton takes 20 mins longer as there's a 40 minute wait in Doncaster (yes, due to the xx.04 from Doncaster no longer running)

As for using a ticket on a route that is not valid for due to poor service...
I know this forum isn't keen on analogies but the timetable is the railway's "catalogue". Its an advert if what they sell. If Argos were to reduce their TV offering from 32 sets down to 12 would you demand a free upgrade because they don't sell as many models as they used to?

 

[daodao]

There are supposed to be 3 daily direct trains from Sheffield to York calling at Swinton. Are they suspended? If running, would they not be useful to the OP, at least in 1 direction?

 

[berneyarms]

There are supposed to be 3 daily direct trains from Sheffield to York calling at Swinton. Are they suspended? If running, would they not be useful to the OP, at least in 1 direction?

Yes they are still running - three each way Monday to Saturday and two on Sundays.

 

[Deepgreen]

I was planning a day to the NRM with my 8 year old, till I found out it had to be pre booked and there were no slots left. Anyway, I booked a different day to the one I'd originally planned, and then went on the UK Journey Planner to sort the train times. We normally drive to Swinton then get a train to Donc and change. However, there is only one train an hour now between Swinton and Donc, and, for most hours, effectively one train an hour between York and Donc. The connection is either too long or too short if it risks an hours wait for the next train.
I am seriously thinking of driving....
I must say I am shocked how sparse the service has become. How are they going to encourage people back onto the trains with such a crap service ?

They're not - Johnson's 'green recovery' was just another of his countless lies.

 

[Horizon22]

As others have said there are two major issues (with LNER and GWR having a compounded 3rd with 80x cracks)

• The "pingdemic" - large numbers of track and trace affecting not just the railway industry but all sectors as widely advertised. This also affects back office control teams and resources teams which impacts on crew availability and planning
• Large backlog in training drivers due to in-cab training having been suspended for close to 12 months. Many TOCs already had backlogs so this has just exacerbated the issue. Driver establishments are generally finely looked over and recruitment kept at a known level based on expected number of retirements, internal and external moves etc. So this has already destroyed succession plans and driver availability.

All in all this leads to not enough trains or crew to run the original Dec '19 service (many TOCs were due to have increased services too), or indeed even an original May '19 service, but the DfT wants to see as many trains run as possible (understandably). So instead of randomly cancelling various trains every day, services will be reduced in a planned manner - and dependent on the scale of the problem various TOCs (and even within depots) will be affected in various ways. Won't be an easy fix.