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Ian Allan Waterloo to close

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Journeyman

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I wonder if the market for railway books is collapsing, due to the amount of information available from other sources. A lot of railway books are reference works of the kind that could go the way of printed encyclopedias - if you want to know some factoid about the rail network, a lot can be found online now.
 
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bramling

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I wonder if the market for railway books is collapsing, due to the amount of information available from other sources. A lot of railway books are reference works of the kind that could go the way of printed encyclopedias - if you want to know some factoid about the rail network, a lot can be found online now.

I‘d say there’s still a massive amount of information in specialist railway books that can’t be found elsewhere, especially the real specialist books like the Oakwood Press histories.

Whether that will continue as the current older generation gets replaced who knows...

There seem to be as many specialist railway books being published as there ever were, though Covid will have doubtless landed a heavy blow.
 

g4mby

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I think the son who has run IA group for last 30 or so years,must be past retiring age.
Ian Allan himself died in 2015. The various companies within the group are or were run by his sons Paul and David with their wives as co-directors. Each son was either MD or a director of each company so that responsibility for the companies within the group was equally shared between them.

As a former employee of the group I met Ian, Paul and David. To me they were very different people. Make of that what you will but I'm sure that as they have grown older then the idea of the sale of the various subsidiaries, some of which were probably making heavy losses, became an attractive proposition in order that the more profitable parts of the group survive.

To me https://www.ianallan.com/ suggests that there's not too much left of the group as I knew it back in 2004 when I left them.
 

Bevan Price

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When their Birmingham shop closed, some of the staff were heard to comment that the new owners had little interest in retail operations, so, sadly, the closure of their London shop is no surprise to me.

Apart from the Covid situation, the excessive rents demanded by some property owners has been damaging shop businesses for several years. Ironically, after the IA Manchester shop closed, it remained unoccupied for over a year - so the owners probably got zero income from the premises for that period.
 

LSWR Cavalier

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There are enough secondhand books, and places to buy them, to keep us going
A secondhand bookstore typically has more variety than somewhere selling new books
 

birchesgreen

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I wonder if the market for railway books is collapsing, due to the amount of information available from other sources. A lot of railway books are reference works of the kind that could go the way of printed encyclopedias - if you want to know some factoid about the rail network, a lot can be found online now.

No i wonder if the problem is over specialisation and running out of topics which haven't been covered much yet? This also applies to some other areas of transport (and military) books to be honest.
 

James H

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Closing down sale details:
  • 33% off DVDs and models from Saturday 26 September
  • 50% off books from Saturday 10 October
shop shuts 31 October
 

OneOffDave

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It's probably also affected by the massive redevelopment of Lower Marsh. A number of independent shops have gone from there and there are three hotels along there at the moment and I think at least one more being built
 

AlbertBeale

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It's probably also affected by the massive redevelopment of Lower Marsh. A number of independent shops have gone from there and there are three hotels along there at the moment and I think at least one more being built

Yes - it's becoming less of a shops-and-greasy-spoons street than it was. I only discovered the shop was there many years after I started passing the area quite often; I've popped in occasionally to browse, and sometimes bought something. Though I seem to remember that something I once went in there specially to buy (an ERT perhaps?) wasn't stocked, which surprised me.
 

Capybara

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I've been along there today and there is a board up advertising the shop premises for let, so if Ian Allan do own it then they are hoping to rent it out to someone else. Otherwise it looks like it could be a rent issue. I know rents along there have been increased in recent years forcing a number of businesses out. The street is not what it was, sadly.
 

WL113

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After the Ian Allan shop in Birmingham closed one of the staff from there set up his own transport books and model shop. Tornado Books and Hobbies. Its not as close to New Street as Ian Allan was but well worth a visit.

 

Ianno87

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I've been along there today and there is a board up advertising the shop premises for let, so if Ian Allan do own it then they are hoping to rent it out to someone else. Otherwise it looks like it could be a rent issue. I know rents along there have been increased in recent years forcing a number of businesses out. The street is not what it was, sadly.

I thought they owned the Waterloo shop outright. If they did, perhaps they came to the conclusions it's worth more in rental value than what they make selling books?!
 

Taunton

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I thought they owned the Waterloo shop outright. If they did, perhaps they came to the conclusions it's worth more in rental value than what they make selling books?!
In that case they're going to have a shock with the commercial property market since March!

The common route to any success with such specialist operations is to do substantial mail order/telesales handling as well as the storefront operation. But of course, they sold all that off separately.
 

paul1609

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In that case they're going to have a shock with the commercial property market since March!

The common route to any success with such specialist operations is to do substantial mail order/telesales handling as well as the storefront operation. But of course, they sold all that off separately.

As far as railway books are concerned from the day they are published they are available heavily discounted on Amazon to the extent that there is insufficient profit margin for an independent seller to cover their costs. Im amazed that some preserved railways still have new bookshops. As far as I can see they are actually subsidising their customers. They'd be far better off getting rid of them and selling children's toys in their place.
 

swanhill41

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K&WVR's bookshop at Howarth has in last 12 months sold off their railway book stock @50% off.This was because lack of sales/over ordering by volunteers
 

AlbertBeale

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As far as railway books are concerned from the day they are published they are available heavily discounted on Amazon to the extent that there is insufficient profit margin for an independent seller to cover their costs. Im amazed that some preserved railways still have new bookshops. As far as I can see they are actually subsidising their customers. They'd be far better off getting rid of them and selling children's toys in their place.

There are many reasons never to patronise Amazon.
 

paul1609

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K&WVR's bookshop at Howarth has in last 12 months sold off their railway book stock @50% off.This was because lack of sales/over ordering by volunteers
Sounds about right. What happens is that enthusiasts come in thumb through the titles before going home to buy them on Amazon.
The copies in the shop become tatty and unsellable so are sold off as secondhand at a loss. At 50% the K&WVR will cover the cost but not the extra costs of the shop card charges, volunteer/ staff costs damaged items etc.
 

Taunton

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Sounds about right. What happens is that enthusiasts come in thumb through the titles before going home to buy them on Amazon.
I do wonder if that's something of an urban legend among booksellers. Buying on line you have no real idea how good the item is before it turns up, and for things like books they regularly are something of a disappointment. How do you know the item is even around? Meanwhile, in the bookshop, there it is in your hand, if you now want it you can get it right there.

I think the real issue is the literate generation is disappearing, railways and everything else. How many have bookcases in their sitting room any longer?
 

bramling

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I do wonder if that's something of an urban legend among booksellers. Buying on line you have no real idea how good the item is before it turns up, and for things like books they regularly are something of a disappointment. How do you know the item is even around? Meanwhile, in the bookshop, there it is in your hand, if you now want it you can get it right there.

I think the real issue is the literate generation is disappearing, railways and everything else. How many have bookcases in their sitting room any longer?

The thumbing has always been an issue at Ian Allan. Though in that case I don’t think it’s people doing it and then buying on Amazon, more people just treating the place as a library.

This whole thing does sadden me, as without places like IA the whole railway books scene disappears, certainly for new books. I dislike buying such on Amazon as (1) you don’t get to see it beforehand, (2) you never know if it’s going to turn up damaged, (3) quite often the postman tries to fit stuff through the letterbox which shouldn’t,(4) to avoid (3) one has to arrange to be in, which obviously isn’t always possible. On top of that you’re also paying postage.

Unfortunately, the experience in somewhere like IA’s would be that there will always be a handful of BO-infested people blocking shelves or roughly handling stock.
 

Busaholic

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Through owning and running a bookshop, and with my personal interest in transport, I got to know Ian Allan's Sales Manager on the book side quite well: being a smallish publisher keen on containing costs Nigel was their their sole sales rep on the road too. Like many, he always enjoyed his trips to the most westerly bookshop in England (beats up and down the motorway to Manchester!) and, for a brief period, I even achieved the exhorted status of them including my shop's name in their bus magazine advertising as an 'approved' agent, being by far the smallest shop in it. Alas, I overreached myself, ordered too much stock and had to have that status withdrawn. Nevertheless, I continued the relationship and was present at their stall at the London Book Fair when Ian Allan Publishing announced their merger with Midland Counties Publishers, spinning it as a 'takeover' but, to my eyes, it was always a rescue of IAP by MC, whose name was adopted. This was a while before the mags were sold to Key Publishing, but was a sign of where the industry was heading in the the fledgling days of the internet. I do recollect Nigel saying to me once when Ian Allan himself was still alive and taking a paternal interest in the business 'as far as Ian's concerned, the bookshop at Waterloo would always be the last thing he'd give up' and he'd let it lose money year after year if necessary. So, RIP not only to the shop but, a few years after his death, to Ian Allan himself: I feel without his vision with the magazines and fleetbooks my difficult early cxhildhood would have been so much worse.Apologies for the excess of emotion, but it's for real...
 

Taunton

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Unfortunately, the experience in somewhere like IA’s would be that there will always be a handful of BO-infested people blocking shelves or roughly handling stock.
Or worse ... I once assisted the longstanding Eastern European lady staff member (anyone remember her?) in dispatching a "difficult" tramp who had entered, although not getting beyond the counter.
 

paul1609

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I do wonder if that's something of an urban legend among booksellers. Buying on line you have no real idea how good the item is before it turns up, and for things like books they regularly are something of a disappointment. How do you know the item is even around? Meanwhile, in the bookshop, there it is in your hand, if you now want it you can get it right there.

I think the real issue is the literate generation is disappearing, railways and everything else. How many have bookcases in their sitting room any longer?
Having as a volunteer in a heritage railway spent many hours behind the till watching the book shelves. I can assure you thats exactly what happens. There are some enthusiasts who undoubtably do buy the books with the idea of supporting the railway but for every 1 of those there are 10 at least that are using the stock to extensively preview a newly released title before deciding its not for them or buying else where. Its not uncommon for them to try to negotiate a discount based on what it costs on Amazon.
The bottom line is we now stock a very restricted line of books and the freed up space is now used for more profitable Thomas the Tank Engine locos.
 

Gloster

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I wonder if the lockdown has forced a number of people who always used to shop in person in a shop to start buying on line. I used to go to places like IA to look at books, but always with the intention of deciding whether to buy books I had seen advertised (I always had a little list), but didn’t want to spend £20+ on when it was of unknown quality. If I decided that I wanted it, I would buy it there and then. The same tended to apply to general browsing: I might find something I was unaware of, like it and buy it there and then. Even among the relatively few books I have bought on line/over the ‘phone in the last six months, there have been a few disappointments, mostly ones about which I would have said,“ Not at that price “.
 

bramling

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I wonder if the lockdown has forced a number of people who always used to shop in person in a shop to start buying on line. I used to go to places like IA to look at books, but always with the intention of deciding whether to buy books I had seen advertised (I always had a little list), but didn’t want to spend £20+ on when it was of unknown quality. If I decided that I wanted it, I would buy it there and then. The same tended to apply to general browsing: I might find something I was unaware of, like it and buy it there and then. Even among the relatively few books I have bought on line/over the ‘phone in the last six months, there have been a few disappointments, mostly ones about which I would have said,“ Not at that price “.

I haven’t been into IA since March, previously I’d have been in there at least once a month, sometimes more.

That’s for a combination of reasons, masks being one of them.
 

AlbertBeale

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Sounds about right. What happens is that enthusiasts come in thumb through the titles before going home to buy them on Amazon.
The copies in the shop become tatty and unsellable so are sold off as secondhand at a loss. At 50% the K&WVR will cover the cost but not the extra costs of the shop card charges, volunteer/ staff costs damaged items etc.

I work in a building which houses a bookshop - where I've done voluntary shifts at times. It is certainly the case that people come in, browse the topics that interest them, take a photo on their phone of the details/barcode etc, planning to order on Amazon (who can sometimes sell cheaper than a small bookshop can buy the stock themselves in the first place). I've tried to point out that the shop staff - unlike Amazon staff - get paid a proper wage, get sick pay, and so on, and that the shop pays all its taxes in a way that an overseas-based multinational doesn't (ie Amazon is a drain on the economy rather than contributing to the economy); then there's the environmental aspects of Amazon deliveries, packaging, etc etc etc. Some people then become a bit sheepish...

As with the likes of Uber, Amazon privatise the profits and externalise the costs - to be borne by the rest of us.
 

paul1609

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I wonder if the lockdown has forced a number of people who always used to shop in person in a shop to start buying on line. I used to go to places like IA to look at books, but always with the intention of deciding whether to buy books I had seen advertised (I always had a little list), but didn’t want to spend £20+ on when it was of unknown quality. If I decided that I wanted it, I would buy it there and then. The same tended to apply to general browsing: I might find something I was unaware of, like it and buy it there and then. Even among the relatively few books I have bought on line/over the ‘phone in the last six months, there have been a few disappointments, mostly ones about which I would have said,“ Not at that price “.
Gloster,trust me its not Covid, its been going on for at least 5 years. Covid has just bought the final curtain forward.
 
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