IE 22000 class or 29000 class

[Philip]

I recently had the experience of travelling on each of these trains on the same service on the same route on consecutive days, a fairly long journey. There felt a big difference in the quality of the train and the interior between the two trains but for anyone who has travelled on both which do you prefer of the two types?

I'd like to see some Rotem 22s operating in the UK, possibly to supplement Voyagers on Cross Country services. It seems a bit strange that no UK TOC has seemingly showed any interest in ordering a batch, considering how well they're doing in Ireland.

 

[Clansman]

I've travelled on the 22000 before, although a good few years ago now, and thought it was a decent runner...certainly better than any diesel Intercity stock that we have here. Whether or not it's up to the current h&s standards and whether or not it's worth having a UK guaged version is another question - if I remember rightly Irish trains are slightly wider than over here, as a benefit of their track gauge.

 

[F Great Eastern]

The IE 29000 class is supposed to be a commuter train but a few of them regularly find themselves on Intercity services.
The IE 22000 class is supposed to be an intercity train but a few of them regularly find themselves on commuter services.

Unfortunately your experience is not unusual and the Rosslare route in particular tends to suffer from inappropriate use of commuter stock whilst the Intercity stock is not exactly rare on rush hour commuter services where standing room is really needed.

The 22000 is a solid train but nothing spectacular, but does suffer like most of the Irish Rail fleet from a terrible PIS that often does not work right and an electronic seat reservation system that often does not work properly.

 

[D365]

The 22000 is a solid train but nothing spectacular, but does suffer like most of the Irish Rail fleet from a terrible PIS that often does not work right and an electronic seat reservation system that often does not work properly.

Some would say that's just like the Voyagers

 

[F Great Eastern]

Some would say that's just like the Voyagers

The jury is actually out on if the PIS system really is bad or it's just down to Irish Rail.

Considering the fact that they have severe PIS problems with the 8500/8510/8520 & 29000 class as well it wouldn't surprise me if it was the later although you have to say the systems in all of them look very cheap and probably built to a price to win a tender.

Someone once told me that if you see a display on one of the 85xx range it's a fairly good indication that the train is not going there and it's very true!

 

[Philip]

The IE 29000 class is supposed to be a commuter train but a few of them regularly find themselves on Intercity services.
The IE 22000 class is supposed to be an intercity train but a few of them regularly find themselves on commuter services.

Unfortunately your experience is not unusual and the Rosslare route in particular tends to suffer from inappropriate use of commuter stock whilst the Intercity stock is not exactly rare on rush hour commuter services where standing room is really needed.

The 22000 is a solid train but nothing spectacular, but does suffer like most of the Irish Rail fleet from a terrible PIS that often does not work right and an electronic seat reservation system that often does not work properly.

It was actually a Rosslare train that I was on! The 29000 train was dirty, stunk, was noisy and by the smell of the exhaust not very green.

One good thing I like about the 22000 PIS is the mileage (KM) figure to the next station, that'd be useful here! The retarder brake also seems to work well unlike on some units here!

Are they generally reliable? The reason for the 29000 appearing was apparently due to a failed 22000...

 

[DesireToFire]

It was actually a Rosslare train that I was on! The 29000 train was dirty, stunk, was noisy and by the smell of the exhaust not very green.

One good thing I like about the 22000 PIS is the mileage (KM) figure to the next station, that'd be useful here! The retarder brake also seems to work well unlike on some units here!

Are they generally reliable? The reason for the 29000 appearing was apparently due to a failed 22000...

But as soon as they starting telling you what the distance to the next station is they stop telling you what it's called!

 

[sprinterguy]

Have Hyundai Rotem actually ever bid for any rolling stock tender in Great Britain (As opposed to the UK - I appreciate that they put an option forward in Northern Ireland)? I can't recall any, and if not, then that's a very good reason why we haven't seen a UK gauge variant. Operators don't just walk into the 1:1 scale Hornby shop and pick up a unit off the shelf.

 

[DT611]

the 22000 by a hundred miles. a very comfortable unit, all though if you are expecting an inter city level of service, you won't get it on those units. It's a highquality regional unit though. I have only done a couple of classes of multiple units in the uk and they don't even compare.
the 2900 is fine for the short suburban journeys they are designed for, but anything over that and they are just aweful. they seem to be getting quite a bit battered as well. They are absolutely scraping the barrel quality for long distance journeys.

 

[dubscottie]

If they put carpets in the 29's they would be a not bad unit.

They are slowly being repainted as well which is improving the appearance of them.

Sway from side to side far to much though.

The 22's are not bad for non Belfast/Cork trains.

The reservation problems are because they don't show until the driver starts the engines and most people are already in seats and a giant game of musical chairs starts.

Has happened on every Sligo train I have got recently.

Hell to be on traveling to Belfast though.

Going by the drawings I have, the 22's would fit the UK loading gauge with smaller steps and bogies. Same with the C3K & C4K units on NIR.

 

[DT611]

If they put carpets in the 29's they would be a not bad unit.

They are slowly being repainted as well which is improving the appearance of them.

Sway from side to side far to much though.

I think given they are designed for suburban services putting carpets in them wouldn't be the best idea tbh. You are right that at speed they do rock from side to side, mind you their 26 27 and 2800 cousins aren't hugely better.

The 22's are not bad for non Belfast/Cork trains.

The reservation problems are because they don't show until the driver starts the engines and most people are already in seats and a giant game of musical chairs starts.

Has happened on every Sligo train I have got recently.

Hell to be on traveling to Belfast though.

I would agree they do not befit the premium nature that a premium service like the belfast service would expect. However they are the best of the availible alternative stock for when the de-deitrick stock is out of action. Other then that, it's one of the NI units, which don't look inviting from the pics (i've never been on them so can't say for definite) . Or at the scraping of the barrel end, the 2900s which definitely should not be on a premium service, never mind any other long distance service. the reservation system on the 22000s is a shambles though.

 

[dubscottie]

If a De Dietrich set went down I would hope the replacement was a C4K. Brilliant units. Beats a 29 or 170 any day.

If they had a flat interior roof they would feel more "cosy". The big open space makes them feel odd.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 22000s are very comfortable, and demonstrate nicely how you can use daylight white lighting comfortably (i.e. as an indirect background light). Something about the seats makes them have a regional feel, though.

 

[Mordac]

I think given they are designed for suburban services putting carpets in them wouldn't be the best idea tbh. You are right that at speed they do rock from side to side, mind you their 26 27 and 2800 cousins aren't hugely better.



I would agree they do not befit the premium nature that a premium service like the belfast service would expect. However they are the best of the availible alternative stock for when the de-deitrick stock is out of action. Other then that, it's one of the NI units, which don't look inviting from the pics (i've never been on them so can't say for definite) . Or at the scraping of the barrel end, the 2900s which definitely should not be on a premium service, never mind any other long distance service. the reservation system on the 22000s is a shambles though.

Other than the seats lacking lateral support (would benefit from having the same seats as are on the 350/4s, for instance), the NIR CAF units are great. You can barely hear the engine when sat inside: in fact, the aircon is louder, and they're spacious and well designed. Even the seat is only an issue on longer journeys, like Belfast to Londonderry.

 

[158820]

I have only used 29000s a handful of times years ago and to me they are just a pure commuter I would not like a trip to Sligo or Rosslare on them. The 2600s that crop up every Fri/Sun/Mon on the Kerry line are very rocky.

The 22000 are a good reliable work horse but I find that they are starting to rattle and vibrate a lot especially when idling.
The reservations loading issue is really annoying but I haven't noticed it causing as much hassle recently, probably because go straight for the unreserved coach.