If there were a general election in a month, whom would you vote for to most effectively get us out of this mess?

[johnnychips]

In the last general election, I voted for the Yorkshire Party, as I knew the leader’s mother and he was a good chap. Normally I vote Labour, but I figured that my local candidate would get in anyway and in any case I didn’t like her much (Oops she lost her seat!).

Now all this stuff about CV’s gone off, whom would you vote for now to get us out of this situation ? Has it changed? Why?

Until about three days ago it would have been a solid Starmer. But then he agreed with Boris about masks, so no chance, so I will be voting Yorkshire again.

Their policy is that anyone from outside Yorkshire has to wear a mask, but Yorkshire people are exempt.

I made that last bit up, but seriously, what do you think?

 

[bramling]

In the last general election, I voted for the Yorkshire Party, as I knew the leader’s mother and he was a good chap. Normally I vote Labour, but I figured that she would get in anyway and in any case I didn’t like her (Oops she lost her seat!)

Now all this stuff about CV’s gone off, whom would you vote for now to get us out of this situation ? Has it changed? Why?

Until about three days ago it would have been a solid Starmer. But then he agreed with Boris about masks, so no chance,
so I will be voting Yorkshire again.

Their policy is that anyone from outside Yorkshire has to wear a mask, but Yorkshire people are exempt.

I made that last hit up, but seriously, what do you think?

Honestly? I’d actually give some pretty serious consideration to voting Labour at this moment. Simply because Starmer seems to have a much more stable mind, and even if he made all the same decisions as BJ has done I think he’d articulate them better. Even that would help - a decent leader would at least have helped avoid some of the cohesion issues we’re increasingly seeing. There’s a lot of simmering resentment bubbling away beneath the surface, we’ve seen hints of it boiling over, but IMO there’s potential for it to really explode, and I don’t think BJ would have the first clue what to do.

Also, Dodds does seem genuinely bright and conscientious, and whilst her politics isn’t my cup of tea at all, again I think she has a stable mind. Sunak seems to behave too much like an over-excited puppy dog to me. Of course we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes between him and BJ.

There’s only one person who I think would have made an even worse mess of this, that person being Jeremy Corbyn!

 

[Huntergreed]

I would vote for Labour hands down.

Starmer seems strong with his convictions, he doesn’t seem like he would allow the wishy-washy nonsense that’s been coming out of Johnson and his cabinet through the pandemic. I expect he would lay out his decisions clearly, and explain these with clear and detailed links to scientific evidence. I believe he would take a clear approach (Johnsons approach seems to be “elimination but it’s not quite”, and it’s just very unclear, banking solely on the hope for a vaccine is dangerous with any disease) and would have made things much clearer and less half-baked than what we’re getting now.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Conservative voter all my life but Starmer impresses me. I might very well break a lifetimes voting habit.

 

[bramling]

I would vote for Labour hands down.

Starmer seems strong with his convictions, he doesn’t seem like he would allow the wishy-washy nonsense that’s been coming out of Johnson and his cabinet through the pandemic. I expect he would lay out his decisions clearly, and explain these with clear and detailed links to scientific evidence. I believe he would take a clear approach (Johnsons approach seems to be “elimination but it’s not quite”, and it’s just very unclear, banking solely on the hope for a vaccine is dangerous with any disease) and would have made things much clearer and less half-baked than what we’re getting now.

The thing with elimination is that needs to be accompanied with a strong policy on external borders. Boris’s quarantine policy was a total joke. If elimination is the strategy then the politicians need to be honest that they are then gambling on a vaccine, and that ultimately we will need to be realistic if a vaccine doesn’t come within a certain timeframe. BJ seems utterly incapable of having this sort of honest dialogue with the population. Part of the trouble at the moment is that none of us know where we’re attempting to head.

 

[PupCuff]

I voted Conservative, and I maintain that was the best of a terrible bunch at the time, I certainly don't regret doing so.

However I do have great objections to how the Conservative party is being run at the moment, Dominic Cummings made them a laughing stock after his outing to Barnard Castle, and both lockdown and mandatory masks both go against the ideals of a free market, specifically that it should not be government regulation which decides this but consumer choice. Privatisation of industry encourages competition and thus challenges sectors to improve - or, in an ideal world it should do. The way the Conservatives currently go about privatising (for instance, some NHS treatment and diagnosis is now run by private companies) they simply outsource to the private company who offers the lowest bid instead of encouraging several providers to set up shop and compete for business which instead of promoting a drive for better service creates a race to the bottom. Promoting individual choice would help support a return to normality, and encourage us to go out and support the ailing high street.

I can't abide by Labour under Starmer, I sympathise that he has been left stuck between a rock and a hard place with the allegations of anti-semitism within the party however the way the Rebecca Long-Bailey situation was handled was nothing short of farcical - if we sacked every senior politician who had at some point shared some 'fact' that actually turned out to be wrong we'd have nobody running the country. Starmer has previously shown support for free movement to be retained or reintroduced after leaving the EU, a further smack in the face to previous long-term Labour voters who ditched Labour because of their (lack of) Brexit stance. And his perceived inaction on Trans rights is unforgivable at a time when he is in opposition and the government are trying to roll them back. Even if Labour could lead us out of the coronavirus situation I don't believe Labour would lead us out in any way which I could agree with.

Farage, well at the very least you know what you're getting with him which is more than can be said for a lot of politicians, even if in his case it isn't necessarily always in a positive way. I couldn't see any way Farage could lead us out of this without causing more damage than has already been done as he comes across as a strong leader, just not necessarily directing the country in the right direction.

In short, I don't trust any one of them to lead us out of this in an effective way. Again it boils down to Least Worst and I don't know, perhaps that is actually Johnson.

 

[adc82140]

I was in the Starmer camp until his flip flopping over reopening the schools.

 

[Scrotnig]

I would spoil the paper. I've had enough of the whole sick corrupt lot of them now.

 

[birchesgreen]

Nobody seems to be offering an alternative approach at the moment, except i hear the Brexit Party (though i assumed they would have dissolved by now?)

 

[Senex]

I think that very reluctantly I'd have to break the habit of a lifetime, vote in a general election, and vote Labour at that. The reason would be simply that a Labour victory looks like the only plausible way of getting rid of what I see as by far the worst government of my lifetime (and for long before too, actually) and a large chunk of the ghastly MPs who support it. Quite apart from questions of Brexit, for which I can never forgive the Tories, there's just a total lack of competence all round coupled with what seem to be some pretty questionable practices if newspapers like The Guardian are to be believed. This lot seem to want to behave like a set of mini-Trumps, and a Trump-Republican-style UK is not something I want for my declining years. Is there any possible way out that does not involve handin power to Labour?

 

[squizzler]

Is there any possible way out that does not involve handin power to Labour?

There is, is you live in a small but growing number of English constituencies, the opportunity to support the lib dems, or the populist nationalist parties such as Plaid or SNP or Brexit if you live in those nations. They wouldn't stop a labour landslide if their was an election tomorrow, but would be there to hold them to account.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Labour. Starmer seems competent and measured.

 

[jtuk]

Whoever has just been on Today has just put the Tories on the do not vote list, along with Labour for continuing to take union cash and the Lib Dems for their EU views and disgraceful abandoning of all principles once in coalition, so that leaves a choice of whoever is left

 

[NorthOxonian]

Nobody seems to be offering an alternative approach at the moment, except i hear the Brexit Party (though i assumed they would have dissolved by now?)

Though Farage seems as on board as any of them.

I think I'd vote for Starmer, not because I like Labour (I really don't), but because I want to punish the government for how they've handled this. I don't trust Labour to do any better, but I don't think Hancock, Johnson et al should get away with their lacklustre performance.

But my constituency is pretty safe, so my vote wouldn't have an impact.

 

[jfollows]

Labour. As I did for the first time ever in December 2019, not because they had a valid proposition or a competent leader at the time, but because they were better than the Conservative alternative.

I was a member of the same university Conservative Association as both Boris Johnson (after me) and Theresa May (before me) were, back in the day, but I've not voted Conservative since 1992 and don't see myself doing so again, at least not for a long time yet.

 

[John Hunt]

I would spoil the paper. I've had enough of the whole sick corrupt lot of them now.

That is what I did at the last election and that is what I would do now.

 

[Jayden99]

Controversial here I know, but (in my opinion) Nicola Sturgeon has had a very good pandemic, and has really impressed me. I've never been all that keen on the SNP, and so I usually vote Green back home, as much good as that does me, but I'd be tempted to change. Saying that, where I'm living atm in England is about as safe a Tory seat as you can get, Labour take a very distant third and they'd be my preferred option, so I guess I'd spoil the paper

 

[jfollows]

Controversial here I know, but (in my opinion) Nicola Sturgeon has had a very good pandemic, and has really impressed me.

I agree, she has been decisive and clear, two things that Boris has not been. She made one major mistake by not sacking her Chief Medical Officer immediately, but spotted her mistake quickly enough to rectify it and apologise.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's not worth bothering with until the whole Brexit farce is played out and we see the results of both that and Covid 19 next year.
The Tories are just getting away with it at the moment, making big policy decisions without any proper challenge.
Labour can only be reactive, and they won't put up a new set of policies for a couple of years yet, until the next election looms.
Starmer is competent and steady, but his time hasn't come yet.
And the far left is still lurking in the background.
The sane voices like Alan Johnson, Vince Cable and Ken Clarke are long gone, and I can't see their replacements as senior ministers.

 

[Senex]

It's not worth bothering with until the whole Brexit farce is played out and we see the results of both that and Covid 19 next year.
The Tories are just getting away with it at the moment, making big policy decisions without any proper challenge. .....
The sane voices like Alan Johnson, Vince Cable and Ken Clarke are long gone, and I can't see their replacements as senior ministers.

There's the problem. The British "constitution" relies both on there being a "loyal opposition" to mount a proper challenge to government and on the presence in a governing party of individuals with minds of their own who won't just roll over for whatever the whips want. If those features aren't there, then effectively there is no limit to the freedom of government and we are living in Lord Hailsham's "elective dictatorship". So many of the sane voices, like the ones you note, have gone, or have no chance of being senior ministers when the criterion for office seems to be total subservience to the wishes of Downing Street and the unelected advisor answerable to no-one so comfortably and unmoveably installed there.

 

[nr758123]

The country needs a grown-up in charge. His name is Keir Starmer.

 

[BJames]

Labour.

The country needs a grown-up in charge. His name is Keir Starmer.

Exactly.

 

[PhilipRhayader]

Keir Starmer.

 

[Ianno87]

Unquestionably Starmer.

 

[BJames]

I voted Conservative, and I maintain that was the best of a terrible bunch at the time, I certainly don't regret doing so.

However I do have great objections to how the Conservative party is being run at the moment, Dominic Cummings made them a laughing stock after his outing to Barnard Castle, and both lockdown and mandatory masks both go against the ideals of a free market, specifically that it should not be government regulation which decides this but consumer choice. Privatisation of industry encourages competition and thus challenges sectors to improve - or, in an ideal world it should do. The way the Conservatives currently go about privatising (for instance, some NHS treatment and diagnosis is now run by private companies) they simply outsource to the private company who offers the lowest bid instead of encouraging several providers to set up shop and compete for business which instead of promoting a drive for better service creates a race to the bottom. Promoting individual choice would help support a return to normality, and encourage us to go out and support the ailing high street.

I can't abide by Labour under Starmer, I sympathise that he has been left stuck between a rock and a hard place with the allegations of anti-semitism within the party however the way the Rebecca Long-Bailey situation was handled was nothing short of farcical - if we sacked every senior politician who had at some point shared some 'fact' that actually turned out to be wrong we'd have nobody running the country. Starmer has previously shown support for free movement to be retained or reintroduced after leaving the EU, a further smack in the face to previous long-term Labour voters who ditched Labour because of their (lack of) Brexit stance. And his perceived inaction on Trans rights is unforgivable at a time when he is in opposition and the government are trying to roll them back. Even if Labour could lead us out of the coronavirus situation I don't believe Labour would lead us out in any way which I could agree with.

Farage, well at the very least you know what you're getting with him which is more than can be said for a lot of politicians, even if in his case it isn't necessarily always in a positive way. I couldn't see any way Farage could lead us out of this without causing more damage than has already been done as he comes across as a strong leader, just not necessarily directing the country in the right direction.

In short, I don't trust any one of them to lead us out of this in an effective way. Again it boils down to Least Worst and I don't know, perhaps that is actually Johnson.

This bolded bit. Have you read the article? The author of the article actually apologised! Something Long-Bailey failed to do. You have a responsibility when you are a politician, especially a senior one AND especially in a party trying to overturn their bad name surrounding anti-semitism - a responsibility she hasn't met. She was offered the chance to apologise, and did not. Starmer was elected on the premise of taking action around anti-semitism. He couldn't ignore this.

 

[brad465]

Like others here I support Starmer on this (although as a non-Tory anyway that wasn't difficult).

There's the problem. The British "constitution" relies both on there being a "loyal opposition" to mount a proper challenge to government and on the presence in a governing party of individuals with minds of their own who won't just roll over for whatever the whips want. If those features aren't there, then effectively there is no limit to the freedom of government and we are living in Lord Hailsham's "elective dictatorship". So many of the sane voices, like the ones you note, have gone, or have no chance of being senior ministers when the criterion for office seems to be total subservience to the wishes of Downing Street and the unelected advisor answerable to no-one so comfortably and unmoveably installed there.

What we really need is a written constitution that would settle/make clear a number of issues that have been grey areas in recent years (prorogation last year comes to mind). On the opposition issue, without trying to go too off topic, I'm also a huge fan of proportional representation, not just for fair representation of voters, but don't like the concept of one party have total control off of a minority of the electorate (both Tory and Labour have had majorities with 35-45% of all votes in a given election in this century so far). Yes coalitions are much less stable, but accountability is much better, something in this pandemic there has been a distinct lack of.

 

[nlogax]

Starmer and Labour appear far more competent than those in power right now. Thank god Corbyn's gone, now maybe there'll be a realistic chance of an alternative to Johnson + co.

 

[Ian Cunningham]

The country needs a grown-up in charge. His name is Keir Starmer.

At a UK level - absolutely agree. Here in Scotland we already have one in charge.

My politics probably sit most comfortably with the Lib Dems which means I've been a tactical voter all my life (mostly Labour - partly due to good local candidates)
I would gladly see a Labour government back at Westminster

I've never been in favour of putting up barriers or borders and have long favoured a proper federal structure to the UK but the stark contrast in the handling of Covid-19 between UKGov and ScotGov is making a very strong case for independence.

 

[Skymonster]

The Tories are toast at the next general election - either because of the shambled handling of the virus or the near catastrophic collapse of the economy. People will remember it was under the Tories than millions lost their jobs and livelihoods, tens of thousands (maybe more) died, and in the aftermath they are paying much higher taxes. I'm sure Boris knows that, and I'm sure other senior Tories know it. Its gone too far already and there is no way the Conservatives will be able to pull a rabbit out of the hat before the country next goes to the polls. However, that means we are stuck with this Tory government until May 2024 - firstly because the Tories have a big enough majority to remain under normal circumstances, and secondly because the party must know its done for at the next election and so there will be no rebellions.

As to who would be best to get us out of this mess: firstly, we don't have a choice, its going to be Boris or another Tory whatever we think. Secondly: Starmer isn't proven enough yet to enable anyone to be sure he could do it yet. Thirdly: All the rest represent minorities which will fail to deliver consensus or are untrustworthy in their own rights too.

 

[Bald Rick]

Jacinda Arden. Please can she come here.