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Inappropriate behaviour & threats by the police citing Covid 19 regulations

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Skimpot flyer

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I’ve heard that a West Midlands police officer went for an eye test on Monday.
He was asked when he first noticed a change in his vision
‘Back in March, I guess. I started to see offences where none had actually been committed’ he said
‘Ah’ said the optometrist ‘We’ve had half your colleagues in here today. You’ve got 2020 vision’
 
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PHILIPE

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I’ve heard that a West Midlands police officer went for an eye test on Monday.
He was asked when he first noticed a change in his vision
‘Back in March, I guess. I started to see offences where none had actually been committed’ he said
‘Ah’ said the optometrist ‘We’ve had half your colleagues in here today. You’ve got 2020 vision’


Did he have to go to Bishop Auckland for his test ?
 

Islineclear3_1

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When a police officer speaks to you and asks "Do you understand?" - this is legalese for "Do you stand under me and submit to my wishes?" (or words to that effect)

This is why many people now are replying "No" and not consenting to what is asked of them.

I haven't seen or heard this first-hand though; only in video footage but I believe there is some truth in this
 

Alex C.

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When a police officer speaks to you and asks "Do you understand?" - this is legalese for "Do you stand under me and submit to my wishes?" (or words to that effect)

This is why many people now are replying "No" and not consenting to what is asked of them.

I haven't seen or heard this first-hand though; only in video footage but I believe there is some truth in this
There is no truth in this, it's legal nonsense. It's part of the 'Freeman of the Land' cult which has no basis in actual law. (Wikipedia has a decent article on this here)
 

island

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When a police officer speaks to you and asks "Do you understand?" - this is legalese for "Do you stand under me and submit to my wishes?" (or words to that effect)

This is why many people now are replying "No" and not consenting to what is asked of them.

I haven't seen or heard this first-hand though; only in video footage but I believe there is some truth in this
This is complete and utter nonsense.
 

Skimpot flyer

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How should one answer this? I would be stumped in the heat of the moment.
Clearly, one could say ‘please arrest me and take me to the police station, where you can charge me under the appropriate legislation’. When they look it up, bring legal action for wrongful arrest and punitive damages?
 

DB

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How should one answer this? I would be stumped in the heat of the moment.

Point out that for something to get to court there has to be some evidence of a crime actually being committed, and in this case the government official guidelines on how the law applies make it clear that there is no requirement for any proof, so on what basis are thry claiming that a contravention has occurred.
 

farleigh

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Disgusting behaviour by these police officers. These individuals should be held to account.
 

LSWR Cavalier

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How can I b sure that I understand if asked? I thought one was innocent until proven guilty

The cops should get out there and start enforcing traffic law!
 

yorkie

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Disgusting behaviour by these police officers. These individuals should be held to account.
They won't be.

The force has defended them on Twitter and refuses to answer questions.

If anyone lives in the relevant area, it would be useful if they could contact their MP.
 

Solent&Wessex

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Did anyone in the Look North Yorkshire area see the interviews with North Yorkshire Police yesterday evening on the 1830 main programme?

I'll try and provide further details later on when I am on the computer but it was basically Look North speaking to North Yorkshire Police about the Tier 2 and Tier 3 boundary.

NYP had been out doing road blocks on the border between West Yorkshire Tier 3 and North Yorkshire Tier 2 and asking the reasons for travel and turning people around who didn't have a genuine reason.

They interviewed a Police Inspector who admitted it wasn't against the law, but they would be turning people around anyway and finding other legislation to use against people if needed. He concluded by saying that people from Tier 3 should be complying with the law by staying in their local area only.

They then interviewed the Police and Crime Commissioner who made it abundantly clear they didn't want people from Tier 3 coming into Tier 2 and that they would have additional patrols of licensed premises to check people were complying, would be advising the premises about accepting Tier 3 visitors and would have additional resources to mount road blocks on key crossing points, using ANPR to detect cars from Tier 3 areas.

The presenter said that as it wasn't actually against the law what could they actually do if they found someone from Tier 3 having a meal in a restaurant in Tier 2? The commissioner replied that they can issue a Fixed Penalty Notice.

EDIT: view Look North here. It is the first story at 01:15. Look North (Yorkshire), Evening News: 02/12/2020: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000q0gf via @bbciplayer
 
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Bantamzen

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Did anyone in the Look North Yorkshire area see the interviews with North Yorkshire Police yesterday evening on the 1830 main programme?

I'll try and provide further details later on when I am on the computer but it was basically Look North speaking to North Yorkshire Police about the Tier 2 and Tier 3 boundary.

NYP had been out doing road blocks on the border between West Yorkshire Tier 3 and North Yorkshire Tier 2 and asking the reasons for travel and turning people around who didn't have a genuine reason.

They interviewed a Police Inspector who admitted it wasn't against the law, but they would be turning people around anyway and finding other legislation to use against people if they didn't comply. He concluded by saying that people from Tier 3 should be complying with the law by staying in their local area only.

They then interviewed the Police and Crime Commissioner who made it abundantly clear they didn't want people from Tier 3 coming into Tier 2 and that they would have additional patrols of licensed premises to check people were complying, would be advising the premises about accepting Tier 3 visitors and would have additional resources to mount road blocks on key crossing points, using ANPR to detect cars from Tier 3 areas.

The presenter said that as it wasn't actually against the law what could they actually do? The commissioner replied that they can still issue Fixed Penalty Notices.
This doesn't surprise me, the North Yorkshire Police are often bored at this time of year with few tourists making their way into the county. However they might want to re-prioritise their work with snow forecast.
 

Skimpot flyer

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Did anyone in the Look North Yorkshire area see the interviews with North Yorkshire Police yesterday evening on the 1830 main programme?

They interviewed a Police Inspector who admitted it wasn't against the law, but they would be turning people around anyway and finding other legislation to use against people....
The presenter said that as it wasn't actually against the law what could they actually do? The commissioner replied that they can still issue Fixed Penalty Notices.
For what, exactly? You have to wonder about the mindset of people who have a desire to join the police force. One of the protestors in London last Saturday (in the video I linked to) was grabbed by an officer only after he alleged that the policeman was ‘on a power trip’ (after threatening his female friend with arrest, for the ‘crime’ of being in a public place outdoors). I hate the authoritarian state we are fast becoming!
It used to be common in my youth to see ACAB daubed in graffiti on walls almost everywhere.
There is still an example of this, in huge letters on the wall of a building near Kentish Town station in London.
When you hear of coppers like those described above, trying to lord it over people and inventing their own interpretations of the actual laws, it is little wonder distrust of the police is now commonplace
:frown:

(ACAB being All Coppers Are B@stards, if people didn’t know)
 

island

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For what, exactly? You have to wonder about the mindset of people who have a desire to join the police force. One of the protestors in London last Saturday (in the video I linked to) was grabbed by an officer only after he alleged that the policeman was ‘on a power trip’ (after threatening his female friend with arrest, for the ‘crime’ of being in a public place outdoors). I hate the authoritarian state we are fast becoming!
It was, immediately prior to yesterday, a crime to be in a public place outdoors without reasonable excuse.
 

Mag_seven

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It was, immediately prior to yesterday, a crime to be in a public place outdoors without reasonable excuse.

That's the sort of thing you had in 1970s East Germany. Who would have thought the same would apply in 2020 Britain. :'(
 

Skimpot flyer

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It was, immediately prior to yesterday, a crime to be in a public place outdoors without reasonable excuse.
The police were talking about the post-lockdown situation, referencing Tiers 3 and 2
 

island

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The police were talking about the post-lockdown situation, referencing Tiers 3 and 2
The post, by you, which I responded to, had a reference to “last Saturday”, when the previous rules were in effect. Which is it?
 

duncanp

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Here is yet another example of the police acting outside their authority


Who the hell do they think they are.

The law, as opposed to the guidance, does not place any prohibition on travelling from a Tier 3 area to a Tier 2 area for any reason.

Someone really needs to tell the police to wind their neck in and get on with actually fighting crime, rather than bullying and intimidating law abiding citizens.

For Christ's sake, we are talking about a hill on the border of North Yorkshire and Cleveland, which is in the outdoors, where transmission of the virus is very low anyway.


Roseberry Topping: Police warn walkers over hill crossing Covid-19 tiers​

People living in Teesside are being warned not to climb one of its most famous landmarks as they risk breaking government coronavirus restrictions.
Roseberry Topping crosses two council areas which are in different tiers.
While part is in Redcar and Cleveland, subject to the tier three restrictions, its peak is in Hambleton in tier two.
North Yorkshire Police said it was "neither necessary or acceptable" to move tiers for a day trip. People could face a fine if they break the rules.

The news about the 1,049ft (320m) beauty spot, dubbed the Yorkshire Matterhorn, was first reported by Teesside Live.
The National Trust, which manages the site, said it was asking people to follow government guidance.

'Border patrols'​

England has been placed into three tiers following the second national lockdown, in a bid to stop the spread of coronavirus.
The North East of England is in tier three while North Yorkshire is in tier two.
Supt Mike Walker, who is in charge of North Yorkshire Police's Covid-19 response, said: "Those living in tier three areas are advised not to travel out of the area unless it is necessary, such as for work or education.
"I realise there may be some confusion over what is deemed necessary in these circumstances, so I'd like to be clear here; it is neither necessary or acceptable to leave a tier three area and enter a lower tier area for a day trip or to visit a pub or restaurant for a meal."
IMAGE COPYRIGHTGETTY IMAGES
image captionPeople living in North Yorkshire can still enjoy the view from the top
He warned people living in tier three areas not to "try to side-step" the tighter restrictions by visiting neighbouring tier two places for a day or night out.
The force said it would be "actively patrolling" border areas with an "increased presence", including using its safety camera fleet, equipped with number plate recognition cameras.
 

DB

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Is that bit about 'people could face a fine...' just bad reporting? I note that the superintendent quoted has chosen his words carefully and doesn't actually state that it's illegal or that there are any fines attached to it, although it's clear that the police are spinning it that way as much as they can without saying anything actually false about the law.
 

duncanp

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Is that bit about 'people could face a fine...' just bad reporting? I note that the superintendent quoted has chosen his words carefully and doesn't actually state that it's illegal or that there are any fines attached to it, although it's clear that the police are spinning it that way as much as they can without saying anything actually false about the law.

It is just bullying, threatening and intimidating people.

I have just come back from a pub lunch in a Tier 2 area, even though I live in Tier 3. The pub allowed you to have one drink with your meal, and two further drinks afterwards.

There is nothing which says this is against the law, as it is quite normal to have a drink in a restaurant before ordering your food, after ordering your food but before receiving it, whilst you are eating your food, and after having finished your food.

The bar staff said that every pub in Tier 2 will be interpreting the law differently, and some will be more strict than others.

Looking forward to a walk and another pub lunch on Saturday.
 

Crossover

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Did anyone in the Look North Yorkshire area see the interviews with North Yorkshire Police yesterday evening on the 1830 main programme?

I'll try and provide further details later on when I am on the computer but it was basically Look North speaking to North Yorkshire Police about the Tier 2 and Tier 3 boundary.

NYP had been out doing road blocks on the border between West Yorkshire Tier 3 and North Yorkshire Tier 2 and asking the reasons for travel and turning people around who didn't have a genuine reason.

They interviewed a Police Inspector who admitted it wasn't against the law, but they would be turning people around anyway and finding other legislation to use against people if needed. He concluded by saying that people from Tier 3 should be complying with the law by staying in their local area only.

They then interviewed the Police and Crime Commissioner who made it abundantly clear they didn't want people from Tier 3 coming into Tier 2 and that they would have additional patrols of licensed premises to check people were complying, would be advising the premises about accepting Tier 3 visitors and would have additional resources to mount road blocks on key crossing points, using ANPR to detect cars from Tier 3 areas.

The presenter said that as it wasn't actually against the law what could they actually do if they found someone from Tier 3 having a meal in a restaurant in Tier 2? The commissioner replied that they can issue a Fixed Penalty Notice.

EDIT: view Look North here. It is the first story at 01:15. Look North (Yorkshire), Evening News: 02/12/2020: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000q0gf via @bbciplayer

It has hit a few of the media outlets too (on mobile so can’t easily add a quote, sorry)

Just had a bit of a ‘debate’ with my parents about it. We firmly hold different opinions on it, shall we say...
 

AnkleBoots

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So equally a leisure train trip from Leeds to York could result in a Fixed Penalty Notice?
 

duncanp

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So equally a leisure train trip from Leeds to York could result in a Fixed Penalty Notice?

It might result in a Fixed Penalty Notice if the police were trying to throw their weight about, but since the regulations do not ban travel from Tier 3 to Tier 2, you can succesfully challenge the issue of the notice.
 

duncanp

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Oh what a surprise.

There are now reports of "overzealous" police visiting pubs and telling people to leave directly after finishing their food, despite their being nothing in the regulations to this effect. They have also being arguing with landlords about whether Scotch Eggs constitute a substantial meal.

Overzealous' police patrol pubs and argue with landlords over Scotch eggs​

Officers asked customers to leave after eating despite guidelines to only enforce rules as a 'last resort'



The chief executive of the brewer Young's said police had been 'intimidating, bordering on harassment'

The chief executive of the brewer Young's said police had been 'intimidating, bordering on harassment' CREDIT: Dominic Lipinski/PA

Police have been criticised for their “overzealous” enforcement of the new rules on pubs, after landlords reported officers argued over whether Scotch eggs were a substantial meal and threw out customers who had finished eating.
Pub bosses in Tier 2 areas said police had visited their premises to argue over the regulations - insisting that Scotch eggs cannot be considered a “substantial” meal that allows punters to order alcohol.
Patrick Dardis, chief executive of Young's, said officers in London on Wednesday also told customers to leave pub premises as soon as they had finished their meals, preventing them from ordering more drinks.
"As if we haven't got enough to contend with we have had some overzealous officials going into pubs unnecessarily and it's a bit intimidating with customers," Mr Dardis said.
"This whole petty argument about a Scotch egg, whether it is or whether it isn't [a substantial meal] is not relevant. What it actually means is a table meal, a substantial meal is just a made up nonsense.


"It's unnecessary and unhelpful given the problems that the sector has had to deal with over the past months and the amount of money we have spent creating secure and safe environments.”
Mr Dardis emailed all Young’s staff after the incidents, reporting “intimidation, bordering on harassment from officials in some of our pubs”.
Downing Street has refused to rule Scotch eggs out as a qualifying meal, while Michael Gove changed his mind on their status in two interviews on the same morning.
Tier 2 rules stipulate that customers can only order alcohol with a “table meal” and can only dine inside with members of their own household or to hold a business lunch or dinner.
Guidance for police by the National Police Chiefs’ Council says police should only deal with breaches of the rules in pubs and restaurants “as a last resort,” if they fail to convince people to follow them.
But one pub landlord said City of London Police officers had told him they had extra resources to patrol pubs from Wednesday to Saturday each week, and planned to fine repeat offenders £1000 for breaking the rules.
Kate Nicholls, Chief Executive of UK Hospitality, said: “Businesses are having a hard enough time surviving at the minute. Taking a really hard-line approach, when businesses are already working their hardest to keep customers and staff safe helps nobody. There needs to be a degree of common sense when enforcing the rules and we need to avoid putting even more pressure on staff and businesses.”
The British Beer and Pub Association said a major national pub chain had reported issues on Wednesday night from police and Environmental Health officers.
A spokesman for City of London Police said officers would only enforce legislation “where absolutely necessary”, adding: “It is for local authorities to decide how to monitor pubs in Tier 2 and how they apply the substantial meal rules”
 

Richard Scott

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Oh what a surprise.

There are now reports of "overzealous" police visiting pubs and telling people to leave directly after finishing their food, despite their being nothing in the regulations to this effect. They have also being arguing with landlords about whether Scotch Eggs constitute a substantial meal.
What a ridiculous state of affairs. This is absolutely pathetic and how is this reducing spread of virus? This country must be laughing stock of the world. How the mighty have fallen.
 
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