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Is electrifying Windermere worth it?

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philthetube

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Given the problems caused by cars in the National Park I have very much wondered, indeed, if the wires that are proposed to go up should actually be 750VDC ones, and the line converted to a tramway down the road to Bowness at least, or even Ambleside. It would cost, but it would take a LOT of cars off the road if connections were good.

OK, you would lose through trains to Manchester, but you would probably get more connectional traffic (e.g. from London) due to going where people want to go. The town of Windermere is nice enough but it is only a minor destination.

That would then allow for an hourly Barrow.
I suspect you would need a rack and pinion tramway to achieve that.
 

Agent_Squash

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Yes it is. But cheaper to electrify per stk than single track. The length needed at Calvert depends on the maximum current you can draw, and how fast the batteries can accept charge. (e.g. The Flirt AKKU takes 20 mins to recharge giving 50 miles range. So 30 miles to Oxford and back would take 12 mins. The optimum OHLE section might therefore be Bicester Village station to Winslow Station.)

But the HS2 feeder at Calvert isn't built yet, nor is EWR in it's entirety... much easier to electrify a line which is already electrified at its start, and connected to a line that's completed in full.
 

The Planner

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But the HS2 feeder at Calvert isn't built yet, nor is EWR in it's entirety... much easier to electrify a line which is already electrified at its start, and connected to a line that's completed in full.
Bicester Bletchley will be open before the HS2 feeder likely even starts construction.
 

Agent_Squash

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Doubt it, it isn't that steep. Go to Switzerland if you want to see what adhesion can do.

Would there be enough room to get the tram-train out of Windermere? It’s pretty boxed in with Booths on one side and the station/Lakeland on the other.
 

randyrippley

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If we're really serious about so much national electrification by 2030 we need more teams trained to get the work done. We need some fairly quiet stretches with simple requirements for young apprentices to cut their teeth.

Can anyone think of a fairly simple 10 miles or so that might be suitable for this?
Morecambe
 

ac6000cw

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I suspect you would need a rack and pinion tramway to achieve that.
Tramways can handle steeper than 10% (1 in 10) gradients - Lisbon has the 'maximum record holder' line with a 13.8% (1 in 7.2) gradient. There is a metre-gauge heavy rail line in France with 9.1% gradients (which, having been on it, feels unbelievably steep for an adhesion worked railway!).

The old Cromford & High Peak Railway route in Derbyshire had a 7.1% incline, and the Cass Scenic Railway in the US is a standard-gauge, steam operated heritage railway with 11% gradients (a former logging railroad).
 

Bletchleyite

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Would there be enough room to get the tram-train out of Windermere? It’s pretty boxed in with Booths on one side and the station/Lakeland on the other.

Purchasing and demolishing businesses like that costs pennies in the scheme of the costs of a major tram conversion, but I think it could be done without. Remember the Booths isn't the actual old trainshed but I believe a partial replica which would mean it wouldn't be listed. It might also be an option to move the car park to the other side if it was easier for the tram to turn left there.

The station of course wouldn't have to be there if relocating it suited. Bus interchange would move to Bowness and Ambleside anyway.
 
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