Is there a threat to the present continuing usage of the UK landline phone system?

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A neighbour tells me that if the telecommunications companies get their way, the current landline system could well be ended? Has anyone on the website heard of any such proposals?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

They wouldn't be able to get rid of the wires, else the internet would grind to a halt (and before anyone says 'Good', just imagine - no railforums). But would many people miss having their phone calls delivered by wire rather than to a mobile phone?

Personally, I haven't used our landline as a telephone line for ten or more years. If the telephone company took away the phone facility (but left the wire for the internet) I wouldn't miss it.

 

[87 027]

According to Openreach the existing analogue phone network will be retired at the end of 2025

Phone

What a digital phone line means for you and how to get one.

www.openreach.com

The UK’s telephone network is changing

Copper wires and analogue signals have served our nation for over a century. They’ve kept hospitals, schools and emergency services connected, they’ve powered card machines on our high streets and delivered some of most important phone conversations we’ve ever had with our family and friends.

But, because it's been around for a long time, it’s no longer as efficient as it could be. Replacement parts are hard to come by and, it fails more often than we’d like, meaning it doesn’t provide the world-class service that we need it to. This is why we'll be retiring the analogue phone network at the end of 2025.

By this point everyone in the UK will have been upgraded to a digital phone line, providing us with a greener, faster, and more reliable service. This means landline voice calls will soon be transmitted digitally - in the same way your broadband works. By modernising the telephone network, we’ll be able to do more than ever before, helping the UK to stay competitive on the global stage.

To enable this change, we’ll need everyone in the UK from big organisations, to small local businesses, data hungry families, to elderly relatives using their landline as a lifeline to answer the call and get ready for the Upgrade to Digital Phone Lines.

 

[duncanp]

This is the Daily Mail, so I suppose we should take this story with a pinch of salt, but if it is true it is rather concerning.

• If everyone has to use the internet to make a phone call, will there be enough bandwith in the system so that everyone can make calls when they want to?
• What about people in rural areas where internet connectivity is poor?
• What about people who don't have internet access at home yet? There are quite a number of people to whom this applies, as was shown when schools were closed during the lockdown.
• What happens if you need to make an emergency call when the internet service is not working?
• Who is going to pay for the costs involved, such as if you need to buy a mobile phone or have internet service for the first time?

I have a growing sense of unease about the compulsory digitisation of everyday life.

Whilst I realise technology can have some benefits, I think not enough attention is paid to the downsides.

Landline phones will be axed by 2025 in digital switchover

From 2025, all households and businesses will need the internet to make calls under a digital shake-up, meaning millions will be pushed online for the first time or forced to use mobiles to make calls.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Landline phones will be axed by 2025: Digital switchover leads to fears elderly and vulnerable will struggle to cope if they're forced to rely on mobile technology​

• Millions of customers will be pushed online for first time or must rely on mobile
• Upgrade will impact services that rely on the existing telephone network like alarms, phones in lifts, payment terminals and red telephone boxes
• Concerns over older and vulnerable households which are not online, do not use a mobile phone or live in a rural area with poor connectivity being left behind
• Around 6 per cent of homes– roughly 1.5 million – do not have internet access

The death knell has been sounded for the traditional landline telephone.

From 2025, all households and businesses will need the internet to make calls under a major digital shake-up.

It means millions of customers will be pushed online for the first time or forced to rely on a mobile phone instead.

Those without internet may need an engineer to visit their home to get them set up and those with older phones could need to buy a new handset.

Industry insiders compared the move to the switch to digital TV in 2012, when broadcasters stopped transmitting traditional analogue signals to household rooftop or indoor aerials.

But while that change was led by the Government, the switch to 'digital' calls is being driven by the telecoms industry.

The upgrade will also impact other services that rely on the existing telephone network such as alarm systems, phones in lifts, payment terminals and red telephone boxes. Telecoms giants are aiming for the switchover to be complete in 2025.

But experts have raised concerns that millions of older and vulnerable households which are not online, do not use a mobile phone or live in a rural area with poor connectivity are at risk of being left behind.

round 6 per cent of households – roughly 1.5 million homes – do not have access to the internet, according to watchdog Ofcom.

Many may only use the internet on their mobile phone via wireless services, while around half a million households do not own a mobile.

Caroline Abrahams, director of Age UK, said: 'Given that about half of older people over the age of 75 are not online, this could be a particular problem for our oldest citizens.

'Given the threat of fraud, telecom providers also need to take steps to prevent anyone who is in particularly vulnerable circumstances from becoming victims of digital scams.'

Amid fears a power cut or internet outage could leave households stranded, Ofcom has stressed that telecoms providers have an obligation to ensure all households have access to the emergency services.

This means firms may need to provide customers with a free mobile phone or battery packs.

Around two million customers are believed to have already been switched to an internet-based phone service. BT, which memorably used Maureen Lipman as 'Beattie' to promote landline services in the 1980s, said half a million customers now have its Digital Voice service.

It is not known when providers will write to landline-only customers to inform them of the switchover.

Openreach, which runs the majority of the nation's wire and cable infrastructure, has been working with businesses for months to ensure they are ready.

And the firm is aiming to install ultra-fast full fibre broadband in 25 million households by the end of 2026, which should provide a more reliable service.

Virgin Media, which owns its own cables, is also working to switch its home phone service to its fibre broadband network by 2025.

Martyn James, of dispute service Resolver, criticised the 'failure to publicise' the switchover decision, adding: 'The telecoms businesses risk causing considerable distress to those many customers who find the online world hard to navigate.

'It's vitally important landline customers do not end up paying more and that cheap or subsidised broadband services are available for people forced online.' An Openreach spokesman said: 'Protecting vulnerable customers is an absolute priority for us. We are working with communications providers to identify vulnerable customers early on.'

Ofcom said it is working to ensure vulnerable customers get all the support they need.

 

[MotCO]

What I think BT is doing is switching off the analogue service in favour of IP, which I assume is the Internet Protocol part of VOIP. So, I assume that households will still have a fixed telephone, but the signal will come via IP and not a copper wire. (However, I am not a techie and may have got it all wrong )

 

[Ediswan]

* If everyone has to use the internet to make a phone call, will there be enough bandwith in the system so that everyone can make calls when they want to?

Yes.

 

[87 027]

Switching off the analogue phone network and removing the copper cables are not the same thing however. Ofcom has undertaken a consultation on when it would be acceptable to do the latter and Salisbury is one of the pilot cities for this. VOIP (voice over internet protocol) is capable of running over copper

Openreach in Salisbury stops selling copper based services | thinkbroadband

The stop sell for copper voice and broadband services in Salisbury over the Openreach network has started.

www.thinkbroadband.com

Salisbury is the pilot for the eventual retirement of the Openreach copper network and anyone in the exchange area now upgrading, regrading or switching their broadband or telephone provider will only be able to order FTTP (full fibre) products.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What I think BT is doing is switching off the analogue service in favour of IP, which I assume is the Internet Protocol part of VOIP. So, I assume that households will still have a fixed telephone, but the signal will come via IP and not a copper wire. (However, I am not a techie and may have got it all wrong )

There must be quite a number of households that still have a landline phone system still in place. Do I read you correctly that the Internet will be required for a new proposed system? There are still a considerable number of elderly customers of BT who have neither a mobile or a smart phone or an internet connection.

What about 999 calls needed to be made by such people?

 

[87 027]

Everyone should still be able to have a landline telephone; the difference is in the technical architecture of the network. Whether landline-only-no-internet packages will be offered is a different question

After copper retirement, telephone handsets that don't have their own independent power source wouldn't be able to dial 999 in a power cut as they would no longer be drawing power from copper cables

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Have any of the big telecommunications companies notified their customers of this forthcoming event?

 

[MotCO]

There must be quite a number of households that still have a landline phone system still in place. Do I read you correctly that the Internet will be required for a new proposed system? There are still a considerable number of elderly customers of BT who have neither a mobile or a smart phone or an internet connection.

What about 999 calls needed to be made by such people?

No. I'm assuming that the copper wire will need to be replaced with something which takes an IP signal, but I'm not sure if that needs to be full blown internet.

I'm assuming that 'landlines' in some form will still need to be used since some homes (and businesses) are in a mobile-signal-free zone.

@87 027 quotes the BT press release.

According to Openreach the existing analogue phone network will be retired at the end of 2025

To enable this change, we’ll need everyone in the UK from big organisations, to small local businesses, data hungry families, to elderly relatives using their landline as a lifeline to answer the call and get ready for the Upgrade to Digital Phone Lines

 

[ainsworth74]

(and before anyone says 'Good', just imagine - no railforums)

I'm not sure that's the deterrent you think it is

 

[87 027]

I'm assuming that the copper wire will need to be replaced with something which takes an IP signal

Not so, copper is quite capable of carrying data signals - over half of the broadband in the UK is still FTTC (fibre to the cabinet) with the last part of the signal from the cabinet to the premises transmitted over the traditional copper wires

 

[Aljanah]

Not so, copper is quite capable of carrying data signals - over half of the broadband in the UK is still FTTC (fibre to the cabinet) with the last part of the signal from the cabinet to the premises transmitted over the traditional copper wires

Yes, the "minimum" implementation would be for copper connections to move over to low-speed internet, which is essentially already there, although many people already have much better than this. I think some businesses were moving over to Voice-over-IP phones about 10 years ago, which I guess is the type of handset needed.

After copper retirement, telephone handsets that don't have their own independent power source wouldn't be able to dial 999 in a power cut as they would no longer be drawing power from copper cables

You could be onto something here, although a backup battery would be relatively trivial to include if the manufacturers were paying attention.

 

[DelayRepay]

After copper retirement, telephone handsets that don't have their own independent power source wouldn't be able to dial 999 in a power cut as they would no longer be drawing power from copper cables

This is interesting because we had a power cut this week, and at the time my mobile battery was low so I dug the old analogue phone out to make a few calls.

I've also used the landline as 'backup' when there have been problems with the local mobile signal. In my last flat I had no Vodaphone signal for about three weeks due to a problem with the mast, and had to rely on my landline to keep in touch with people.

There are solutions - keep the phone charged, have a charged up power bank at home, have a sim card on a different network. And in an emergency I am sure most people would be able to find a neighbour with a working/charged mobile. But it's more expense, replacing equipment that works fine with new stuff. A bit like when we had to buy set top boxes and have our TV aerials changed so that analogue TV could be turned off.

 

[NSEFAN]

Legacy infrastructure does indeed just work, although there's a cost in maintaining and running it which, in this day and age, could be put to better use. Cabinets in the street can have the legacy copper equipment replaced with more modern equipment to allow more Internet bandwidth. Adapters for legacy phones are already available for VOIP-based phone lines, even for people who like the rotary pulsedial type phones. Provided you have phone signal, emergency calls are possible on mobiles even without a sim card.

 

[alxndr]

After copper retirement, telephone handsets that don't have their own independent power source wouldn't be able to dial 999 in a power cut as they would no longer be drawing power from copper cables

Do they not also need power to the router to work? I know that’s the case with my current Virgin set up which uses VoIP.

 

[DelayRepay]

Provided you have phone signal, emergency calls are possible on mobiles even without a sim card.

Yes, you just reminded me that for 999 calls, mobiles will connect to any network that has coverage. Which is helpful.

 

[Harpers Tate]

I already use a VOIP service for (mainly) outbound telephone calls. I have a landline which has its original number and works, and it also carries my FTTC internet service into the house. So I'm in a position of (up to now, recent, limited) experience and I can already see how I might easily manage without the analog landline. I began with this only a couple of months ago and am running the two things in parallel before making a commitment. At the moment just one party - the one who is most likely to call us - regularly uses our VOIP number when they call and it works well.

As I see it the downside(s) of IP telephony are that you need an internet service and special equipment, which is powered, to connect a phone to a VOIP service - a modem/router plus a suitable IP telephone (or base station for cordless). So there is an equipment cost. As to emergency calls in the event of a power cut, it doesn't seem beyond possibility that such equipment might have a UPS (battery backup) onboard, although most (all?) currently do not.

For anyone who currently uses DECT cordless, and already has a decent internet service, a replacement DECT base station with both analog plus VOIP capabilities would be needed. example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gigaset-N300-DECT-VoIP-Station-Black/dp/B0063QY4NY . In my case, my modem/router has an onboard DECT base so I have just one box to do it all for me.

But the upsides are:
- at current pricing it can be very, very cheap to use. Whereas my landline provider wants £10/month for "unlimited" calls or extortionate per-minute rates I can have effectively unlimited outbound calls to UK standard numbers and the USA and various other places for something in excess of 120 days for ~£10. My inbound service and number are free. Various providers with various tariffs exist, of course.
- the VOIP number looks for all the world like a regular UK landline number (mine is 0114...something) but one can choose to have any national dial code prefix (so, I might have chosen Bedford 01234 for example).
- The number is portable. If I move house to the other end of the country, as long as I have an internet connection there, I can use my same number.
- I could even choose a number from another country; I could have a "local" USA number for example. Although I haven't (yet) found anyone who will provide one for free, monthly number rental fees are fairly nominal.
- you can have several numbers, all using the same equipment if you want, with all phones ringing in response to any inbound call. Or you can have different numbers ring different handsets in something like a DECT cordless setup.
- the line is never* "engaged". Even with only one number, as long as you have >1 handset if one handset is in use, an inbound call will ring the others; and the others can still be used to make outbound calls. (* there may be limits to the number of concurrent calls via any one service; depends on the provider)
- call quality is much better than analog - especially if the party at the other end is also on VOIP.
- you can "buy" premium numbers i.e. ones that are easy to remember. 01234 798000 is £800 for example. And use it anywhere.
- If you convert to a mobile network based internet service (no copper landline) then it will all still work.

 

[birchesgreen]

My GPO 746 dial phone will finally be obsolete.

Not that i ever answer the phone.

 

[Dai Corner]

My GPO 746 dial phone will finally be obsolete.

Not that i ever answer the phone.

Possibly not if you get an Analogue Terminal Adaptor (ATA) which supports pulse dialling

List of Pulse Dialing Capable ATAs and Hardware.

List of Pulse Dialing Capable ATAs and Hardware.

www.classicrotaryphones.com

 

[pdq]

I wonder how this will work for people like my mother in law. The telephone point is in the hall, and there is no other power supply in that part of the house. She won't even get a DECT cordless phone because it would mean drilling holes, for either a phone or mains extension.
Whilst she has a mobile, she is firmly of the 'switch on, make call, switch off' mindset.
There will be other older people like her who equally are unwilling to have extra equipment or 'mess' made of their house, no matter how fleeting. And who is going to pay?

 

[johncrossley]

If you've got VOIP hardware and an internet service, there's no need to pay more than 0.6p per minute to UK landlines and 1.8p per minute to UK mobiles, as that is what Localphone charge (including UK VAT). There isn't even a connection fee, so a short call can cost just 0.6p. There are several other similar providers. I don't have any VOIP hardware but I don't really need it. If I'm on my computer then I simply use a headset and Linphone open source software. Otherwise I use the Linphone app on my mobile phone. I prefer all incoming calls to go to my mobile phone so I have my caller ID set to my mobile phone number.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder how this will work for people like my mother in law. The telephone point is in the hall, and there is no other power supply in that part of the house. She won't even get a DECT cordless phone because it would mean drilling holes, for either a phone or mains extension.
Whilst she has a mobile, she is firmly of the 'switch on, make call, switch off' mindset.
There will be other older people like her who equally are unwilling to have extra equipment or 'mess' made of their house, no matter how fleeting. And who is going to pay?

See my posting # 8 on this thread. I have been in touch with a number of local residents over 70 years of age (most of which are widows living on their own) and quite a number referred to cost implications for this scheme. One or two also are worried about the costs involved with the intention to make people give up their gas central heating boilers, as it was only three years ago when they incurred quite considerable costs in moving from a gas fired back-boiler heating system with a copper cylinder for the hot water to a wall-mounted Worcester Bosch gas boiler. It appears their houses were all built with back-boiler systems.

There are some contributors to this website who have the idea fixed in their minds that all retired people have vast accumulated wealth..

 

[johncrossley]

A bit like when we had to buy set top boxes and have our TV aerials changed so that analogue TV could be turned off.

Some countries are going through a second TV switchover. The first switchover was to convert from analogue to digital terrestrial (in Europe and much of the rest of the world this was using the DVB-T format). Some countries are now transitioning to DVB-T2, which has more capacity, but means the purchase of another set top box for people with old TVs. The UK has some channels in DVB-T2, mostly the HD channels but also some standard definition ones. People with old TVs or set top boxes cannot receive these channels. Many people in the UK are pushing for a similar full conversion to DVB-T2 so that people can get more channels in HD, but a lot of people don't want this and are happy with the current standard definition Freeview service.

 

[Harpers Tate]

I have been in touch with a number of local residents over 70 years of age (most of which are widows living on their own) and quite a number referred to cost implications for this scheme.

Many of the people to whom you refer (nationally, not specifically) will very likely be those who still get their phone service from BT and are on the default standard tariff with no "free" calls and high per-minute rates and so on. Ditto their Gas and Electric, and so on. Inertia from when these were the only choices. Thus, they are already paying way more than they need.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Many people in the UK are pushing for a similar full conversion to DVB-T2 so that people can get more channels in HD, but a lot of people don't want this and are happy with the current standard definition Freeview service.

In the old days, I always wondered about those companies when they used to say there were hundreds of channels available, when the normal human being would never check what each and every channel had to offer.

Freeview offers me quite an extensive channel range and digital radio in the "Channel 700" section.

Many of the people to whom you refer (nationally, not specifically) will very likely be those who still get their phone service from BT and are on the default standard tariff with no "free" calls and high per-minute rates and so on. Ditto their Gas and Electric, and so on. Inertia from when these were the only choices. Thus, they are already paying way more than they need.

Indeed so, but on the other side of the coin, noting how many young people seem almost surgically attached to their "smart (?)" phones, these elderly people are not constantly using their landline telephone in comparison to "the younger element", so the cost implications are minimal. You are wrong in your assumption about those elderly people not changing to different suppliers from the ones they used to have.

Remember "the good old days", when you went to the red-painted telephone box with your four pennies tightly clutched in your hand, dialled the number, inserted the four pennies in the slot the pressed "button A" to be connected, or if unsuccessful, press "button B" to get your money back. There were never endless streams of people in those days out the telephone box, waiting their turn. Incidentally, if it is still possible to make pay calls in those iconic telephone boxes, what is the charge these days?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

See my posting # 8 on this thread. I have been in touch with a number of local residents over 70 years of age (most of which are widows living on their own) and quite a number referred to cost implications for this scheme. One or two also are worried about the costs involved with the intention to make people give up their gas central heating boilers, as it was only three years ago when they incurred quite considerable costs in moving from a gas fired back-boiler heating system with a copper cylinder for the hot water to a wall-mounted Worcester Bosch gas boiler. It appears their houses were all built with back-boiler systems.

There are some contributors to this website who have the idea fixed in their minds that all retired people have vast accumulated wealth..

I think there's cause for concern - but not for panic. We've done mass conversion before (North Sea gas, anyone?). Everyone with a telephone line gets it from a supplier. What will be needed is for those suppliers to be required to make sure that their customers can still access a voice telephone service. That could mean providing everyone with a converter at the end of the wire into their house so they can still plug their phone in. It could mean WiFi over a whole block (if everyone gets their telephone from the same supplier). Or it could be providing a free mobile phone on an appropriate tariff.

The difficulty isn't the technical solution; it's getting the government (or their regulator) to be firm and treating this more like retuning everyone's TVs and VCRs for Channel 5 and less like installing smart meters.

 

[johncrossley]

In the old days, I always wondered about those companies when they used to say there were hundreds of channels available, when the normal human being would never check what each and every channel had to offer.

Freeview offers me quite an extensive channel range and digital radio in the "Channel 700" section.

However, there are only 6 high definition channels available on Freeview. (There are some more available temporarily but these will be lost in the next few months when the frequencies are needed for 5G mobile phone coverage). Changing to DVB-T2 could mean conversion of many of the standard definition channels to high definition, and would also mean no more need to duplicate the existing 6 HD channels in standard definition for those with old TVs and set top boxes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

However, there are only 5 high definition channels available on Freeview. (There are some more available temporarily but these will be lost in the next few months when the frequencies are needed for 5G mobile phone coverage). Changing to DVB-T2 could mean conversion of many of the standard definition channels to high definition, and would also mean no more need to duplicate the existing 5 HD channels in standard definition for those with old TVs and set top boxes.

Don't the vast majority of TV sets now come with Freeview ready built in. It is years since I saw someone with a set top box.