Is there a threat to the present continuing usage of the UK landline phone system?

[duncanp]

I have just received an email from BT to say that my phone service is being switched to "Digital Voice" from an unspecified date in the future.

Rather concerningly it's says "please note that if there is a power cut, or if broadband fails, you will be unable to make calls using Digital Voice, including those to 999."

They rather patronisingly assume you have a mobile phone (which I do), but I don't know what they are going to do for those, often vulnerable and elderly, people who don't have broadband or a mobile phone.

Moreover, I am not happy about being switched to a service which could suffer from more frequent outages.

Power cuts are rare, but broadband failures are not.

 

[johncrossley]

I have just received an email from BT to say that my phone service is being switched to "Digital Voice" from an unspecified date in the future.

Rather concerningly it's says "please note that if there is a power cut, or if broadband fails, you will be unable to make calls using Digital Voice, including those to 999."

They rather patronisingly assume you have a mobile phone (which I do), but I don't know what they are going to do for those, often vulnerable and elderly, people who don't have broadband or a mobile phone.

Moreover, I am not happy about being switched to a service which could suffer from more frequent outages.

Power cuts are rare, but broadband failures are not.

See earlier posts. There should be a battery backup for power cuts. The Swiss example I gave uses the mobile phone network as backup. BT already offer 4G as backup for broadband, albeit for an additional fee. They could offer this for free for vulnerable customers.

 

[DelayRepay]

I agree we need to think about resilience, and especially how vulnerable people can send for help in an emergency. But there are solutions so these situations are not a reason to maintain an obsolete system.

My parents were the first house in their street to get a landline. If any of the neighbours had an emergency, someone would knock on the door and ask to use the phone. If my parent's weren't in, then someone would have to run to the phone box in the middle of the village. If the phone box wasn't working, they'd have to run a bit further to the Police House (remember those?!) and hope the policeman or his wife were in.

Even in the 1980s when I was a kid, not all the neighbours had landlines, and there were a few who still relied on their neighbours for emergencies.

I guess the point is that every household having access to phones, whether landline or mobile, is relatively recent. We survived before and I am sure we will survive again!

 

[najaB]

They rather patronisingly assume you have a mobile phone (which I do), but I don't know what they are going to do for those, often vulnerable and elderly, people who don't have broadband or a mobile phone.

There is usually a battery backup unit (BBU) provided with fibre to the premises (FTTP) installations. It's capable of providing a few hours service in the event of a power cut. And the digital PSTN doesn't depend on you having a consumer broadband service.

Power cuts are rare, but broadband failures are not.

They'll be less common with FTTP than they are over the copper network as there's less to go wrong.

 

[dosxuk]

Low bitrate digital connections (such as original ADSL) in the 256kbps range, served over copper, which would be plenty for a VoIP only installation, are actually incredibly reliable these days.

This plan is not the start of a national FTTP roll-out, it's the start of removing the analogue phone infrastructure from exchanges. Most people who are upgraded will not get fibre installed in their homes, just new face plates on their existing copper line.

 

[najaB]

This plan is not the start of a national FTTP roll-out, it's the start of removing the analogue phone infrastructure from exchanges. Most people who are upgraded will not get fibre installed in their homes, just new face plates on their existing copper line.

I agree it's not the start of the national FTTP roll-out, that's already started! BT wants out of the copper game as soon as possible.

A few years ago it was estimated that BT has about £30B worth of copper and another £5-10B worth of city-centre real estate tied up in the copper network.

 

[Geezertronic]

I have just received an email from BT to say that my phone service is being switched to "Digital Voice" from an unspecified date in the future.

Rather concerningly it's says "please note that if there is a power cut, or if broadband fails, you will be unable to make calls using Digital Voice, including those to 999."

They rather patronisingly assume you have a mobile phone (which I do), but I don't know what they are going to do for those, often vulnerable and elderly, people who don't have broadband or a mobile phone.

Moreover, I am not happy about being switched to a service which could suffer from more frequent outages.

Power cuts are rare, but broadband failures are not.

If your phone plugs into the mains, for example to charge, then you've got no landline phone in a power cut anyway. The majority of landline phones are like that these days so it's really a mute point if you suffer a power outage because unless you have an old & conventional landline phone, it won't work anyway

 

[Dai Corner]

If your phone plugs into the mains, for example to charge, then you've got no landline phone in a power cut anyway. The majority of landline phones are like that these days so it's really a mute point if you suffer a power outage because unless you have an old & conventional landline phone, it won't work anyway

Many people (myself included) keep a phone that doesn't rely on local mains power for just such an eventuality.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

If your phone plugs into the mains, for example to charge, then you've got no landline phone in a power cut anyway. The majority of landline phones are like that these days so it's really a mute point if you suffer a power outage because unless you have an old & conventional landline phone, it won't work anyway

Many people (myself included) keep a phone that doesn't rely on local mains power for just such an eventuality.

Everyone, of course, has their own appetite for risk, but we perhaps need to ask how likely it is that there will simultaneously be a power failure and a need to call the emergency services. And then for those people who see this as an unacceptable level of risk, we perhaps need to go on to considering whether retaining a telephone powered by the phone line is the best way of mitigating that risk.

 

[Dai Corner]

Everyone, of course, has their own appetite for risk, but we perhaps need to ask how likely it is that there will simultaneously be a power failure and a need to call the emergency services. And then for those people who see this as an unacceptable level of risk, we perhaps need to go on to considering whether retaining a telephone powered by the phone line is the best way of mitigating that risk.

I have mine not just for an emergency during a power cut but general use, including taking incoming calls from elderly parents.

Once the copper goes, I'd be willing to provide by own backup power supply. I'd like to think vulnerable subscribers who couldn't afford to do the same would be provided with one free of charge.

 

[GusB]

I have mine not just for an emergency during a power cut but general use, including taking incoming calls from elderly parents.

Once the copper goes, I'd be willing to provide by own backup power supply. I'd like to think vulnerable subscribers who couldn't afford to do the same would be provided with one free of charge.

I think by the time this is fully rolled out, the number of people who rely exclusively on traditional land-line phones will have dwindled anyway, so I don't think this is as big a deal as many people here are making it out to be. I miss the sound of pulse dialing (and I could still have it, I think) but it's no use when trying to use the various automated services that companies have these days.

And the digital PSTN doesn't depend on you having a consumer broadband service.

This has been mentioned a few times in the thread so far and it's a point that seems to have been ignored.

 

[etr221]

My own thought for this project (remove analogue telephone equipment, and so...) - certainly for some subscribers - would be an 'immobile' phone: looking like (and used as) a conventional phone, permanently plugged into the mains to keep itself charged, but connecting to the 'telephone' network as a non-moving mobile phone, wirelessly to its local mast.

 

[Dai Corner]

My own thought for this project (remove analogue telephone equipment, and so...) - certainly for some subscribers - would be an 'immobile' phone: looking like (and used as) a conventional phone, permanently plugged into the mains to keep itself charged, but connecting to the 'telephone' network as a non-moving mobile phone, wirelessly to its local mast.

Like this?

Opis PushMeFon mobile (black) - Opis Technology

opis-tech.com

The Opis PushMeFon mobile combines a stylish retro telephone from the 80s with the convenience of mobile phone use. There is no need for a landline. All you need to do to make and receive calls is insert a working SIM-card. No matter where you are.
You punch in the number on the dial-keypad with your finger exactly as you would have done in the 1980s. True to its 1980s era heritage, the ringer is a real mechanical bell. The high-quality microphone and speaker in the classical handset assure excellent voice quality. In addition the Opis PushMeFon mobile can save a local area code to fully emulate fixed line phone behavior. Of course tone dialling is supported (including keys for * or #).

 

[DelW]

Everyone, of course, has their own appetite for risk, but we perhaps need to ask how likely it is that there will simultaneously be a power failure and a need to call the emergency services. And then for those people who see this as an unacceptable level of risk, we perhaps need to go on to considering whether retaining a telephone powered by the phone line is the best way of mitigating that risk.

Most power failures last for short periods only, but not all. Despite living in a fairly built-up area in the home counties, a few years ago we lost power for several days in mid winter, as a result of snow and ice bringing down overhead lines. AFAIR my landline phone continued to work, at least for the first day or two, allowing me to contact friends and rearrange my intended travel schedule (since roads and trains were affected as well). Having no communication as well as little heat or light would have made the situation even worse.

 

[etr221]

Like this?

Opis PushMeFon mobile (black) - Opis Technology

opis-tech.com

Essentially, yes. To be offered - and potentially set up - as part of the conversion process.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Many people (myself included) keep a phone that doesn't rely on local mains power for just such an eventuality.

Let's be honest here about that, you say many but in terms of the overall population very few people do have an older style phone like that these days. The vast vast majority of people have one that requires mains power anyway so such a change really isn't going to make much of a difference to most people. And for others then sorry but things change and you have to move with the times. And remember for the vast majority of power cuts a backup battery is good enough. And if you really really feel you need to, get a UPS with a beefy battery to last you through a longer power cut.

 

[jon0844]

I got Fibre in April and they don't have battery backup on the new ONTs. You can apparently get them in special cases but the battery is rated for about an hour, which isn't ideal for any major incident.

When I was at my parents who had a major power outage (a few hours) the local mobile base stations went down, both one for EE and Three, plus the O2 one that is also shared with Vodafone.

It was a mission just to report the fault and keep updated with text alerts, which required having the mobile outdoors to get a signal from a more distant site that was no doubt overloaded (the outage was big).

I can see a market for third party UPS systems for people who want to have sufficient coverage, and wonder why Ofcom decided that new installs don't require any backup at all now?

(FWIW, I still have my phone via copper for now but come 2025 onwards there's a good chance I'll be migrated).

 

[johncrossley]

Let's be honest here about that, you say many but in terms of the overall population very few people do have an older style phone like that these days. The vast vast majority of people have one that requires mains power anyway so such a change really isn't going to make much of a difference to most people. And for others then sorry but things change and you have to move with the times. And remember for the vast majority of power cuts a backup battery is good enough. And if you really really feel you need to, get a UPS with a beefy battery to last you through a longer power cut.

I used to have a cordless phone but got fed up of it losing connection with the base station and it not charging properly. So I recently got a regular phone that just plugs into the socket without any hassle, and a bargain at £7.

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/5529610?clickPR=plp:1:63

Probably like a lot of people, I don't use it for outgoing calls anyway and incoming calls are rare, so no need to bother with a cordless phone. Outgoing calls are cheaper using Localphone on my mobile or my computer using Linphone app/software. 0.5p per minute to call landlines, 1.5p per minute to call mobiles with no connection fees. For friends I just use WhatsApp voice calls.

 

[GusB]

Well, I've just had the experience of having my landline service switched off, permanently.

I switched to a new package a few days ago (BT Home Essentials) and I was advised that I would receive the new SmartHub 2. I was a little surprised as I had only been upgraded to the SmartHub just over a year ago and it works fine.

I now know why. While "Digital Voice" was mentioned during the call, it wasn't explained thoroughly enough that once this service has been activated it would disable the copper service completely. Last night when I attempted to make a call there was still a dial tone, but when trying to make a call I received the ascending three-tone sound with "the number you are dialing has not been recognised". Today the line is completely dead and there is no power to the phone at all.

The third person I spoke to today (the other two clearly didn't want to give me the bad news and simply transferred me to someone else) clarified that this is indeed part of the process of switching off the traditional telephone network and that it's irreversible. My main gripe is that this wasn't made absolutely clear when I spoke to BT last week.

Anyone who has wired extension phones in their house is going to find that none of these will work (I need a corded desk phone with a headset). I've since found out that a BT Digital Voice adapter is available to plug this into, but it doesn't appear to be listed on their Shop website, and none of the staff I spoke to alert me to its availability.

 

[najaB]

My main gripe is that this wasn't made absolutely clear when I spoke to BT last week.

That's out of order. I would be raising a complaint about this were I in your position.

 

[davews]

My BT contract comes up for renewal in January and I am worried I will end up in the same boat. Your experience doesn't fill me with confidence. For me the phone is essential (I very rarely use my mobile and nobody knows its number). Once the more vulnerable get hit like this the press will soon wake up, it won't be good for BT.

 

[GusB]

That's out of order. I would be raising a complaint about this were I in your position.

I just have and I'm awaiting their response.

My BT contract comes up for renewal in January and I am worried I will end up in the same boat. Your experience doesn't fill me with confidence. For me the phone is essential (I very rarely use my mobile and nobody knows its number). Once the more vulnerable get hit like this the press will soon wake up, it won't be good for BT.

I think they're making a lot of assumptions about how people still use their telephone service. They offer a couple of DECT handsets free of charge and for most people this will probably be adequate, but it's no good in my situation. BT need to be asking many more questions, and at the very least providing a longer period of time to for people to change their minds.

I'll provide an update when I've had a response.

 

[Devonian]

Anyone who has wired extension phones in their house is going to find that none of these will work (I need a corded desk phone with a headset). I've since found out that a BT Digital Voice adapter is available to plug this into, but it doesn't appear to be listed on their Shop website, and none of the staff I spoke to alert me to its availability.

A 'VRI Isolation Faceplate' should be available to allow the signal from the 'phone' socket on the back of BT's router (Edit: or Digital Voice adapter, or any other VOIP Analogue Telephone Adapter) to be re-injected into your extension wiring via the faceplate of your master socket (if you have a modern NTE5c master socket). Basically, the existing lower-half faceplate is taken off the NTE5c and the VRI isolation plate put in its place, leaving a socket for the broadband router and a green socket for the phone; you plug a cable from the 'phone' socket of the router into the green socket and the router will now provide phone service to your extensions.

 

[GusB]

A 'VRI Isolation Faceplate' should be available to allow the signal from the 'phone' socket on the back of BT's router (Edit: or Digital Voice adapter, or any other VOIP Analogue Telephone Adapter) to be re-injected into your extension wiring via the faceplate of your master socket (if you have a modern NTE5c master socket). Basically, the existing lower-half faceplate is taken off the NTE5c and the VRI isolation plate put in its place, leaving a socket for the broadband router and a green socket for the phone; you plug a cable from the 'phone' socket of the router into the green socket and the router will now provide phone service to your extensions.

Thank you for that suggestion. The only issue is that the master socket is in a cupboard with no power socket. It was replaced just over a year ago, but not relocated at the same time.

The hub is actually plugged into to a BT-installed extension in the living room, which isn't advised but it's the only option I had at the time. It is a modern socket, though.

My PC upstairs is using Powerline network adapters, but I have been toying with the idea of running some cat5 cable upstairs. I might redo the upstairs phone extension at the same time.

 

[Devonian]

Thank you for that suggestion. The only issue is that the master socket is in a cupboard with no power socket. It was replaced just over a year ago, but not relocated at the same time.

The hub is actually plugged into to a BT-installed extension in the living room, which isn't advised but it's the only option I had at the time. It is a modern socket, though.

My PC upstairs is using Powerline network adapters, but I have been toying with the idea of running some cat5 cable upstairs. I might redo the upstairs phone extension at the same time.

As long as a VRI Isolation faceplate is installed on the master socket (or if the extension wiring is moved from the master socket to a separate connection box), in theory the voice signal can be re-injected into the extension wiring through any extension socket. In your case, you would need to run a new data extension socket for the hub from the master socket to the living room (modern master socket filtered face plates have A/B pins to do this, or you can plug an extension kit into the broadband socket on a filtered faceplate), then you could inject the phone signal from the router into the existing living room phone socket.

 

[GusB]

I promised an update on my complaint to BT. To be honest, the one thing that would have completely resolved my complaint to my satisfaction would have been removing the digital voice and reinstating the traditional PSTN (public switched telephone network) service, but I'm resigned to the fact that this would be happening at some point anyway.

However, they ordered two digital handsets for me, and the chap who called back yesterday ordered a free digital voice adapter which my desk phone can plug into in the meantime. These gadgets all arrived today. He was very apologetic and advised me that he was going to feed it back to the powers that be; I don't know whether or not this was just paying lip service, but it's problem solved for now.

 

[AY1975]

Everyone should still be able to have a landline telephone; the difference is in the technical architecture of the network. Whether landline-only-no-internet packages will be offered is a different question

I would hope so. As noted in entry 8 above, there are still a considerable number of elderly people who have neither a mobile phone nor an internet connection, and such people will continue to exist for the foreseeable future even if the number of people in their 70s upwards who do use the internet and/or mobile phones is rising fast.

I would guess that most people in their 50s or younger are fairly au fait with digital age technologies such as email, the internet and mobile phones, but there are still a lot of people in their 60s upwards (and even more so in their 70s upwards) who aren't. The number of non-internet users and non-mobile phone owners increases with age, and that will continue to be the case for the foreseeable future. If you're currently aged 70 and don't use the internet or a mobile, you might still be around for another 20 or even 30 years and your telecommunications needs will still have to be catered for.

That said, throughout history there have been people who resisted embracing modern technologies for as long as they could but eventually did so, however reluctantly, because they realised that they would be lost without them and that the older technologies that they had always used until then were becoming obsolete and were no longer being properly maintained (gas versus electric lighting in the first half of the 20th century, for example).

 

[GusB]

I would hope so. As noted in entry 8 above, there are still a considerable number of elderly people who have neither a mobile phone nor an internet connection, and such people will continue to exist for the foreseeable future even if the number of people in their 70s upwards who do use the internet and/or mobile phones is rising fast.

I would guess that most people in their 50s or younger are fairly au fait with digital age technologies such as email, the internet and mobile phones, but there are still a lot of people in their 60s upwards (and even more so in their 70s upwards) who aren't. The number of non-internet users and non-mobile phone owners increases with age, and that will continue to be the case for the foreseeable future. If you're currently aged 70 and don't use the internet or a mobile, you might still be around for another 20 or even 30 years and your telecommunications needs will still have to be catered for.

That said, throughout history there have been people who resisted embracing modern technologies for as long as they could but eventually did so, however reluctantly, because they realised that they would be lost without them and that the older technologies that they had always used until then were becoming obsolete and were no longer being properly maintained (gas versus electric lighting in the first half of the 20th century, for example).

People who are in their 70s now would have been of working age when mobile phones and internet connections started becoming widely available. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that they would have been exposed to either of these technologies if they had been employed by a medium- to large-sized business before they retired. Assuming that any offspring they had are 20-ish years younger, any offspring they have are definitely going to be somewhat tech-savvy. This was certainly the case with my parents (now sadly departed).

I think we're at the stage where it's only really those who are in their 80s and above, and perhaps have no family, that we should really be focussing on here. I've given an account of my own experience above and, as someone who is fairly au-fait with technology, I feel that not enough is being done to push the message that this is quite a major change. Think of the amount of publicity that there was in the run-up to the Digital Switchover for television; it went on for months, if not a few years before the analogue TV signals were turned off. The switch to digital telephony is just as important, yet it's happening now without the same amount of media coverage.

 

[najaB]

The switch to digital telephony is just as important, yet it's happening now without the same amount of media coverage.

Largely because it actually happened about 20 years ago, it's just the plastics that are starting to catch up.

 

[GusB]

Largely because it actually happened about 20 years ago, it's just the plastics that are starting to catch up.

I should have been clearer - the switch to digital at the consumer end should have been far better publicised. I'm well aware that we've been digital behind the scenes for a long time!