Is there a threat to the present continuing usage of the UK landline phone system?

[The Ham]

Think of the amount of publicity that there was in the run-up to the Digital Switchover for television; it went on for months, if not a few years before the analogue TV signals were turned off. The switch to digital telephony is just as important, yet it's happening now without the same amount of media coverage

Assuming that the switchover is in 2025 we're at least 3 years out, that's still a reasonable amount of time to allow for 2 years/18 months of increased publicity.

It's also going to impact far fewer people than the TV switchover did. As there's already loads of people who don't use a landline at all.

Personally having a VOIP "landline" with an app for use on a mobile/PC would be much more useful than the current setup.

Given the costs of 4G home routers (where I am the current cost is £14/month for 11mb/s and unlimited data vs the circa 26mb/s I currently get over a fixed line) there's likely to be some who opt to ditch a physical line altogether as the 4G router can just be plugged in wherever they are and they maintain the same internet as they've got. 5G is likely to increase the costs a bit in the short to medium term but allow a speed upgrade.

As to old people not having mobile phones, all my family do (and some of them are in their 90's) and have done so for a significant amount of time, in fact of the 3 family (4 really, but 2 are married to each other) over 80 two have internet and in part the reason I'm saying that the third doesn't is they are in a care home.

To be fair my dad (only just into his 70's) was a fairly early adopter of the internet due to his work involvement (science based and an international company), which means that he's probably more able to do some tech stuff than I am! Which has meant that he's encouraged and helped his parents/in-laws to have tech.

Obviously he's an outlier, however I'd suggest that there's still many who would have internet access and far more who have access to mobile phones. I'd also suggest that the various lockdowns have pushed many more to move over to having internet access.

 

[Devonian]

The switch to digital telephony is just as important, yet it's happening now without the same amount of media coverage.

The current phase is still effectively a large-scale trial rollout to see how it will all work: so far only 14 exchanges out of over 500 have had a 'stop sale' on new PSTN installations let alone compulsory conversions (which are being trialled in two areas, Salisbury and Mildenhall, I believe). At the moment, most of the mainstream 'alternative' telecom companies such as Plusnet and TalkTalk don't even overtly offer a domestic VOIP product at all (though I have heard that TalkTalk's telephone lines are technically VOIP already, with adapters at the exchange end of the line). BT are in the vanguard for consumer (rather than business) VOIP conversion, and clearly trying to get ahead of the game.

Once this phase has been reviewed there will be a much clearer idea of the difficulties involved in switching customers smoothly, how best to do it, and how to support essential voice connections; and alternative suppliers will no doubt put packages together: that would be the right time for mass coverage. Mass advertising now would lead to the kind of concern shown in this forum on a much larger scale... without all the answers being available!

 

[jon0844]

Yes, the process is starting from 2025, it's not that everyone will be moved over in or before 2025 - far from it. I've just had fibre put in my home and even I am still getting my phone via the original copper, and Openreach (well, Kelly) told me that will likely be the way for some time.

There's no need for a big advertising campaign or anything, unlike the Digital TV switchover, because it will be very localised to begin with.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There's no need for a big advertising campaign or anything, unlike the Digital TV switchover, because it will be very localised to begin with.

What do you think will happen regarding advertising when the matter enters a much larger phase?

 

[Devonian]

Yes, the process is starting from 2025, it's not that everyone will be moved over in or before 2025 - far from it

In theory, it should be complete by the end of 2025, with no *new* connections to the PSTN network after September 2023.

However, it's worth noting that Openreach began trials of a copper-based replacement product in May this year, not due for full launch until August 2022: that Single Order Transitional Access Product 'SOTAP' would in theory allow telecoms companies (including BT) to continue to offer connections over existing copper lines to customers as long as the companies have their own equipment at the exchange (as many, such as TalkTalk, already do as part of Local Loop Unbundling) in areas without fibre connections.

This is presumably aimed at providing an ADSL connection allowing VOIP, but it's just possible that providers might choose to use the product to do the VOIP conversion at their equipment in the exchange end and send analogue signals down the line, very much like an ordinary phone line today. This is one of the 'unknowns' that makes it difficult to publicise what will be going on...

What do you think will happen regarding advertising when the matter enters a much larger phase?

I suspect that publicity will be rather different from Digital Switchover: unlike consumers of television through an aerial, telecoms customers get regular communication direct from their specific supplier, so I would expect a lot of the 'publicity' to come direct from people's telecoms companies, with a national awareness campaign in the press/media to reassure people that their phone will still work one way or another and encourage people to talk to their suppliers about their options.

 

[jon0844]

What do you think will happen regarding advertising when the matter enters a much larger phase?

I am sure it will be localised, based on what is happening on your exchange. It will be somewhat confusing (as this thread perhaps demonstrates) if there's a national campaign giving a date but your own exchange won't see any changes for a long time.

 

[AY1975]

People who are in their 70s now would have been of working age when mobile phones and internet connections started becoming widely available. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that they would have been exposed to either of these technologies if they had been employed by a medium- to large-sized business before they retired. Assuming that any offspring they had are 20-ish years younger, any offspring they have are definitely going to be somewhat tech-savvy. This was certainly the case with my parents (now sadly departed).

I think we're at the stage where it's only really those who are in their 80s and above, and perhaps have no family, that we should really be focussing on here. I've given an account of my own experience above and, as someone who is fairly au-fait with technology, I feel that not enough is being done to push the message that this is quite a major change. Think of the amount of publicity that there was in the run-up to the Digital Switchover for television; it went on for months, if not a few years before the analogue TV signals were turned off. The switch to digital telephony is just as important, yet it's happening now without the same amount of media coverage.

That depends what kind of jobs they were in in the 1990s and early 2000s: they would have been exposed to mobile phones and the internet if they were in white collar jobs at that time, but if they were in blue collar jobs where they weren't exposed to these technologies, then not necessarily, so there will still be some people now in their 70s who aren't tech-savvy (and some of them, along with some of those in their 80s upwards, don't have children or any other close relatives alive).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

... but if they were in blue collar jobs where they weren't exposed to these technologies, then not necessarily, so there will still be some people now in their 70s who aren't tech-savvy (and some of them, along with some of those in their 80s upwards, don't have children or any other close relatives alive).

A point very well made. In those days of the last decade of the previous milennium,, there were still many workers in many industries who had shop-floor jobs where their skills did nor rely on the same technology used in office-based positions, but on their own skills in operating machinery in engineering, etc.

 

[AY1975]

A point very well made. In those days of the last decade of the previous milennium,, there were still many workers in many industries who had shop-floor jobs where their skills did nor rely on the same technology used in office-based positions, but on their own skills in operating machinery in engineering, etc.

Or in unskilled or semi-skilled jobs such as cleaners, refuse collectors, shop workers, and the care and hospitality sectors.

 

[PeterC]

There's no need for a big advertising campaign or anything, unlike the Digital TV switchover, because it will be very localised to begin with.

Just seen a post elsewhere from somebody where they have just switched over. His major concern was that he could no longer omit the first five digits of a number when calling locally and was most upset that BT hadn't had a major campaign about the "issue".

Its been decades since I stopped to think if a number was "local" or not and just "dial" the whole thing if it isn't already saved in the phone's memory.

 

[thenorthern]

As others have said one will require an internet connection to also have a landline from 2025 but given the number of people who have an internet connection it won't really make much difference to most people.

The telephone network won't go away as despite advances in 5G and other things the fixed-line network is still much better for consumers and internet companies.

 

[pdq]

Just seen a post elsewhere from somebody where they have just switched over. His major concern was that he could no longer omit the first five digits of a number when calling locally and was most upset that BT hadn't had a major campaign about the "issue".

Its been decades since I stopped to think if a number was "local" or not and just "dial" the whole thing if it isn't already saved in the phone's memory.

A lot of people don't realise what their area code vs subscriber number is any longer and often misquote it. Examples I've seen recently are Leeds (01132) 123456 - should be (0113) 2123456; Cardiff (02920) 123456 rather than (029) 20123456 and all the London codes are often quoted as 0207, 0208 etc (harking back to 0171 0181). This page has more info about area codes for anyone who can't sleep! https://www.ukphoneinfo.com/01-02-geographic-numbers

 

[Grumbler]

As others have said one will require an internet connection to also have a landline from 2025 but given the number of people who have an internet connection it won't really make much difference to most people.

The telephone network won't go away as despite advances in 5G and other things the fixed-line network is still much better for consumers and internet companies.

Landline phone customers will not need to subscribe to an internet service, it is the telco's responsiblility to migrate the service to the new system and it should not cost any more. Some useful links:-

The future of fixed telephone services

In this document, we outline the changes that are taking place to the UK's telecoms networks and the roles and responsibilities of different organisations, including Ofcom.

www.ofcom.org.uk

What is digital voice and how can I get it? | BT Help

Digital Voice is our new home phone service for the next generation and beyond. Delivered through your broadband connection, it gives you an improved service and crystal-clear calls.

www.bt.com

Virgin Phone Switchover

community.virginmedia.com

​

 

[GusB]

Just seen a post elsewhere from somebody where they have just switched over. His major concern was that he could no longer omit the first five digits of a number when calling locally and was most upset that BT hadn't had a major campaign about the "issue".

Its been decades since I stopped to think if a number was "local" or not and just "dial" the whole thing if it isn't already saved in the phone's memory.

There are some parts of the country (Aberdeen is one) where all-figure dialing has been required for a few years now. This was because of the diminishing pool of numbers in the area. Essentially it allowed "local" numbers to start with digits that otherwise wouldn't have been allowed if the dialing code wasn't mandated.

 

[thenorthern]

A lot of people don't realise what their area code vs subscriber number is any longer and often misquote it. Examples I've seen recently are Leeds (01132) 123456 - should be (0113) 2123456; Cardiff (02920) 123456 rather than (029) 20123456 and all the London codes are often quoted as 0207, 0208 etc (harking back to 0171 0181). This page has more info about area codes for anyone who can't sleep! https://www.ukphoneinfo.com/01-02-geographic-numbers

It's always strange seeing phone numbers pre PhONEday when the 01 was added in front of every domestic telephone number. PhONEday of course happened on Easter Sunday in 1995.

Short form dialling within a specific area code though seems to have largely disappeared with a lot of people dialling the full area code even for a local call. In certain areas though like Milton Keynes the full area code is required to call a local number from a landline as it means that numbers can then start with 01908 0..... or 01908 1....... which isn't possible if local short dialling is allowed.

There are some parts of the country (Aberdeen is one) where all-figure dialing has been required for a few years now. This was because of the diminishing pool of numbers in the area. Essentially it allowed "local" numbers to start with digits that otherwise wouldn't have been allowed if the dialing code wasn't mandated.

Unless an area has mandatory dialling the local part of the area code can't start with 0 or 1 as it would confuse the exchange.

 

[Grumbler]

It's always strange seeing phone numbers pre PhONEday when the 01 was added in front of every domestic telephone number. PhONEday of course happened on Easter Sunday in 1995.

Short form dialling within a specific area code though seems to have largely disappeared with a lot of people dialling the full area code even for a local call. In certain areas though like Milton Keynes the full area code is required to call a local number from a landline as it means that numbers can then start with 01908 0..... or 01908 1....... which isn't possible if local short dialling is allowed.



Unless an area has mandatory dialling the local part of the area code can't start with 0 or 1 as it would confuse the exchange.

It must be quite easy to program phones to insert a user-specified area code when omitted by the caller (i.e. any number not commencing 0, 1 or 999).
N.B. corrected to include numbers commencing 1.

 

[najaB]

Short form dialling within a specific area code though seems to have largely disappeared with a lot of people dialling the full area code even for a local call.

You can thank the rise of mobile phones for that. People are more used to dialling all 10/11 digits.

 

[thenorthern]

It must be quite easy to program phones to insert a user-specified area code when omitted by the caller (i.e. any number not commencing 0 or 999).

It probably is easy although you would need to design each phone to only work in a single area. It's easier just to get people to dial the full area code.

 

[The Ham]

It probably is easy although you would need to design each phone to only work in a single area. It's easier just to get people to dial the full area code.

Why would you?

All you'd need is for the phone to default to the local area code being that as the incoming number. To get around people taking their number when they move house you could also manually set it to whatever code you like (so if you live somewhere where most of your calls are to an area code where you don't live then you could choose to have that one instead of the correct one).

Of course most people save the most called numbers and call from the phone book, so it's not really that much of an issue.

 

[DelayRepay]

Short form dialling within a specific area code though seems to have largely disappeared with a lot of people dialling the full area code even for a local call. In certain areas though like Milton Keynes the full area code is required to call a local number from a landline as it means that numbers can then start with 01908 0..... or 01908 1....... which isn't possible if local short dialling is allowed.

Please don't laugh at me but I've lived in MK for three years and never realised this. I do remember once trying to ring the Chinese takeaway from my landline without the 01908. It wouldn't connect. I thought the phone was faulty

But the vast majority of calls are from my mobile ('free' minutes) - and apart from occasional calls to businesses, most of my calls are to other mobiles. The landline is only really used if I can't use my mobile (including quite often to ring my mobile because I can't find it!)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I know of quite a few elderly people who live close to me who have a landline with a base unit that has ansaphone facility, plus three other phones, one in the bedroom, one in the kitchen and one in the lounge. They all seem happy with this type of set up and none are what you might call "good on their legs" so whereever they are, a phone is in easy reach.

 

[The Ham]

The telephone network won't go away as despite advances in 5G and other things the fixed-line network is still much better for consumers and internet companies

Indeed, however for some (where there's a lag in getting good internet speeds) there's the potential that they could use mobile internet options. Unless you're trying to watch several videos in the same house 11mb/s would be fine (current speed quoted for where I live), although even then the price is such that you could have 2 routers and still only be paying £28.

 

[najaB]

They all seem happy with this type of set up and none are what you might call "good on their legs" so whereever they are, a phone is in easy reach.

There's not reason that they would need to change anything about this setup.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There's not reason that they would need to change anything about this setup.

As a matter of fact, I shall be visiting two of these people later today, so I shall pass on your comment to both of them.

 

[Grumbler]

Why would you?

All you'd need is for the phone to default to the local area code being that as the incoming number. To get around people taking their number when they move house you could also manually set it to whatever code you like (so if you live somewhere where most of your calls are to an area code where you don't live then you could choose to have that one instead of the correct one).

Of course most people save the most called numbers and call from the phone book, so it's not really that much of an issue.

The reason for area codes was to enable customers to place calls without the help of an operator in years BC (before computers). But nowadays only numbers starting 01 and 02 are geographical, and they are gradually being superseded by 07s for individuals and 03s for organisations. Maybe in future there will be a demand for separate ranges by business sector, e.g. schools, healthcare, local authorities, railways so there'll be no need for area codes at all. After all we don't have geographic email addresses.

 

[Dai Corner]

The reason for area codes was to enable customers to place calls without the help of an operator in years BC (before computers). But nowadays only numbers starting 01 and 02 are geographical, and they are gradually being superseded by 07s for individuals and 03s for organisations. Maybe in future there will be a demand for separate ranges by business sector, e.g. schools, healthcare, local authorities, railways so there'll be no need for area codes at all. After all we don't have geographic email addresses.

Phone numbers may become like internet IP addresses; of interest only to those who run the system and a few geeky enthusiasts.

I can barely remember the last time I actually dialled a number. I make all my outgoing calls on my smartphone as it's cheaper that way with inclusive minutes. I either dial from my Contacts or tap a number in an email or website.

 

[najaB]

As a matter of fact, I shall be visiting two of these people later today, so I shall pass on your comment to both of them.

I would, naturally, appreciate you passing on a grammatically-correct version of the comment: "There's no reason why they would need to change anything about this setup". To expand on that, when the conversion happens Openreach (or their telecoms provider) can either provide a VoIP to PSTN converter box that they plug the main phone into (presuming the other phones are cordless extensions thereof) or can hard-wire a conversion box before the NTE (master socket) that will allow phones connected to the existing internal wiring to continue to function as normal.

Despite what cowboy contractors will, doubtless be spouting in an attempt to drum up business, no residential user will have to get "new digital wiring" or the like.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I would, naturally, appreciate you passing on a grammatically-correct version of the comment: "There's no reason why they would need to change anything about this setup". To expand on that, when the conversion happens Openreach (or their telecoms provider) can either provide a VoIP to PSTN converter box that they plug the main phone into (presuming the other phones are cordless extensions thereof) or can hard-wire a conversion box before the NTE (master socket) that will allow phones connected to the existing internal wiring to continue to function as normal.

Despite what cowboy contractors will, doubtless be spouting in an attempt to drum up business, no residential user will have to get "new digital wiring" or the like.

Thank you for what you have said above. Have no fear, I shall quote it chapter and verse. To confirm matters, the other phones on the quad set are indeed cordless extensions and all the people to whom I referred to early all have BT product phone systems with the base/ansaphone unit in the hallway.

 

[Devonian]

It's relatively easy either to 'provision' (ie program) generic VOIP phones/adapters to add a local code to numbers not starting 0,1 or 9 (I've programmed mine to do so, and in many cases it could be done remotely by a telecoms provider), or to add a local code the VOIP provider's end (Sipgate allows you to choose an automatic dialling code, for example). It is absolutely *easier* for phone companies not to bother and to get the customers to change the way they dial.

I was amused to see that in a recent Ofcom consultation on local dialling BT (who want it ended as swiftly as possible, and will get their way) claimed that it would be "expensive and time consuming [and] technically challenging" to arrange local dialling on VOIP services, whilst TalkTalk pointed out that they had offered IP-based telecoms with local dialling for 13 years without any difficulty and "do not believe there are any technical feasibility issues" in offering local dialling!

I have no doubt that local dialling codes will become less important over time, though they are still useful to determine at a glance whether a business operates in a particular area: no point in calling a plumber in 0117 if you are in 01752, and no point in taking on an 020 number if you only operate in 0176 87.

As an aside, two anecdotes.

Firstly, a few years ago the company I worked for switched telecom suppliers, which meant that all local calls had to be dialled including the area code: it caused an uproar, not least in the departments who spent day in and day out calling the local numbers for several hundred contacts. It was easy for me to reprogram our switchboard to add the local code for any six-figure number dialled that didn't start 0,1 or 9, but it showed (to our surprise) just how much people did stlll dial the subscriber number only (plus we calculated that the seconds taken to dial the extra numbers added up, across the whole company, to a few days' work a year!).

And secondly, two years ago I joined a community group and we were all asked to jot down our numbers: I noticed that a lot still put down landline numbers so as not to be troubled while they were out at work/on the beach, and all of those on the local exchange wrote down only the subscriber number.

 

[Typhoon]

Despite what cowboy contractors will, doubtless be spouting in an attempt to drum up business, no residential user will have to get "new digital wiring" or the like.

Sound advice that will unfortunately not reach enough of the more vulnerable customers.

Open Reach comes up with the rather less helpful:

you may need to be provided with, or buy, additional or new equipment.

While this is true, someone going door-to-door with an impressive looking id-card in an orange jacket with 'Telecoms' or something similar on the back may well be able to persuade one of the more vulnerable members of the community that 'equipment' means just about anything including "new digital wiring" which is necessary to connect the "equipment" to the (some technical term designed to bamboozle the householder).

Some companies may have been pro-active but all I have heard is what I have read in this thread. If nothing else 'Do nothing until you hear from your provider' would be better than nothing.

Short form dialling within a specific area code though seems to have largely disappeared with a lot of people dialling the full area code even for a local call.

If I asked a local for their phone number, a fair few (about a quarter) would give a six figure number. Largely elderly population, most of their friends live locally. I always repeat it with the area code to confirm as I am rather a 'newcomer' (ten years).