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Is travelling for leisure over Xmas allowed?

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Gathursty

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I'd like to travel alone to Harlow by car and travel up and down the WAML and the Lea Valley lines over Christmas and return to Greater Manchester.

What would be the official guidance and also what is the situation at Stansted Airport station given I'd be wanting to go in and out of Stansted via both chords (so would be lingering between trains at the airport)?
 
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yorkie

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To answer the question in the thread title: freedom of movement restrictions are lifted when 'lockdown' ends on Wednesday 2nd December.
What would be the official guidance...
To answer this point, guidance is that if you are in a Tier 3 are (which I think you are) is to "avoid travelling to other parts of the UK"
 

Gathursty

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Freedom of movement restrictions are lifted when 'lockdown' ends on Wednesday 2nd December.
Very quick reply thanks. I've been a good boy and only been either at work, home or beauty spots around Wigan the past few months so could do with a break out at Christmas.

Hope you're well.

PS: There are definitely beauty spots around Wigan.
 

RailExplorer

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You can already travel wherever you want now for a day trip using your own car or public transport (for exercise purposes for example). In reality no one will ask you anything. None essential travel is not banned, perhaps just discouraged.
 

Gathursty

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You can already travel wherever you want now for a day trip using your own car or public transport (for exercise purposes for example). In reality no one will ask you anything. None essential travel is not banned, perhaps just discouraged.
I think the problem is that I associate the word lockdown with what we did in March and due to so many changes since then, I and I suspect millions of others of people have switched out of listening to the government and just trying to define their own version of keeping safe.
 

RailExplorer

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The decisions for keeping safe should really be your decision anyway, so you are doing the right thing of making those decisions yourself and not listening to the ever changing government advice based on highly questionable stats (hope you do actually evaluate any stats you base your decisions on though and not take Matt Hancock’s words as gospel). Life is never fully safe, and as for Covid-19, the virus will be here for a long time yet along with restrictions imposed by the Government. So really the decision if you want to do the trip you described at Christmas is your choice.
 

317 forever

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I went to London to ride some buses yesterday instead of around Christmas, despite the lockdown. All I did yesterday was walk between home, rail/Underground stations, bus stops, cafes or newsagents, none of which is against lockdown rules. Likewise, using cafes and newsagents is not against lockdown rules. As for using buses and trains, this is advised against but not against lockdown rules, provided we wear a face covering.

Admittedly we are asked to avoid travel or stay local, and keep connections minimal. However, there is no definition of "local" and no stipulated maximum number of rides we are allowed.

Furthermore, my conscience told me that December would be busier when shops reopen, and colder weather, both of which would exacerbate the spread of the virus. I therefore considered it to be more appropriate to go yesterday rather than December.
 

island

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You can already travel wherever you want now for a day trip using your own car or public transport (for exercise purposes for example). In reality no one will ask you anything. None essential travel is not banned, perhaps just discouraged.
As it stands it is illegal to leave your home without a reasonable excuse. It is also illegal to enter Wales or Scotland from the UK without a reasonable excuse.

These are not especially likely to be enforced in practice, as you say, but the rules are there.
 

birchesgreen

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If you look at gov.uk it says you must not leave your home... except for... and then lists so many exceptions it renders the original order pretty meaningless. Which is how its been all along to be honest.
 

yorkie

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If you look at gov.uk it says you must not leave your home... except for... and then lists so many exceptions it renders the original order pretty meaningless. Which is how its been all along to be honest.
During lockdowns yes, these freedom of movement restrictions have existed, but there was no restriction on freedom of movement from the end of the first lockdown, during the Summer until the start of the latest lockdown at the beginning of November.

In reality I find that most people I speak to away from this forum are not particularly well informed as to the rules, guidance etc, and I am only fully aware of them because of the incredibly informative posts on this forum, including links to and quotes from relevant legislation and guidance as well as detailed analysis of these.
 

birchesgreen

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During lockdowns yes, these freedom of movement restrictions have existed, but there was no restriction on freedom of movement from the end of the first lockdown, during the Summer until the start of the latest lockdown at the beginning of November.

In reality I find that most people I speak to away from this forum are not particularly well informed as to the rules, guidance etc, and I am only fully aware of them because of the incredibly informative posts on this forum, including links to and quotes from relevant legislation and guidance as well as detailed analysis of these.

Yes the problem is the rules people think there are instead of what is actually in place. I remember when i started using the trains again in July some people on social media said "how come you are allowed to?!" and acted like i was some kind of terrorist, they just wouldn't accept it wasn't "banned", i even sent them the relevant texts off gov.uk but they didn't believe it.

Mind you its rules in general people remain ignorant of or too lazy to look up. I regularly drive along a road at night which has a bus lane which is in operation only between 7am-10am. Despite the regular and clear signs i'm always the only person to be actually using that lane...
 

317 forever

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If you look at gov.uk it says you must not leave your home... except for... and then lists so many exceptions it renders the original order pretty meaningless. Which is how its been all along to be honest.
Indeed, I felt it reasonable to go to London yesterday because, as in my post above, I felt that all my behaviour effectively fell into the list of exceptions.
 

trainophile

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The OP specifically mentions "over Xmas", which depending on whether within or without the 23-27 December relaxed rules period presumably has different rules, and both will be different from what is current until 2nd December.
 

DelW

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As it stands it is illegal to leave your home without a reasonable excuse. It is also illegal to enter Wales or Scotland from the UK without a reasonable excuse.

These are not especially likely to be enforced in practice, as you say, but the rules are there.
The BBC is reporting South Wales police stopping cars in the Cardiff area including some who had driven from England. Some of those stopped were fined, though it's not clear what the criteria or the exact offences were:
 

stevetay3

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You will be able to do what you like from 23/12 to 27/12 by government order, apparently the virus doesn’t kill at Christmas as it will be on holiday as well
 

Class 170101

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That even assumes people will able to travel. I wouldn't recommend travelling by train on those dates as that concievably be a superspreader event in itself given the small window in which people are being allowed to travel both just before and just after Christmas.
 

yorkie

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You will be able to do what you like from 23/12 to 27/12 by government order...
Has anyone seen the legislation? I think in practice what you say won't be far off, but the Guidance isn't worded that way.
That even assumes people will able to travel. I wouldn't recommend travelling by train on those dates as that concievably be a superspreader event in itself given the small window in which people are being allowed to travel both just before and just after Christmas.
I'm not convinced. I suspect most trains will cart fresh air but of course there will be some prime InterCity trains at certain times that will be fully booked, and these will grab any headlines.

I don't agree they will be super-spreader events though, for reasons that have been discussed umpteen times before in other threads, but that discussion is best done in another thread (if it hasn't already been done to death enough as it is)
 

Hadders

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I agree with this. The rail industry will get a very bad press on 23rd and 27th December on what will otherwise be slow news days.

Expect to see the media camped outside major stations, I predict King's Cross where they will highlight the engineering work in a negative way, and Paddington where they'll show a busy concourse, with once a year passengers looking as though they don't know where they're going as they follow one way systems and complain about the price of fares and journey time etc.

Then for added rail bashing they'll highlight the fares increases due to be implemented on 2nd January.

I really don't think the trains will be that busy either.
 

Kite159

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I agree with this. The rail industry will get a very bad press on 23rd and 27th December on what will otherwise be slow news days.

Expect to see the media camped outside major stations, I predict King's Cross where they will highlight the engineering work in a negative way, and Paddington where they'll show a busy concourse, with once a year passengers looking as though they don't know where they're going as they follow one way systems and complain about the price of fares and journey time etc.

Then for added rail bashing they'll highlight the fares increases due to be implemented on 2nd January.

I really don't think the trains will be that busy either.

Or highlight someone at Euston trying to travel to Scotland on the Sunday having not booked a seat and getting turned away due to expected busy loads. The media loves a good negative railway story.
 

Class 170101

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Or highlight someone at Euston trying to travel to Scotland on the Sunday having not booked a seat and getting turned away due to expected busy loads. The media loves a good negative railway story.

Especially as Kings Cross will be closed.
 

Hadders

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Or highlight someone at Euston trying to travel to Scotland on the Sunday having not booked a seat and getting turned away due to expected busy loads. The media loves a good negative railway story.

Good shout. And while they're at Euston they can add in a bit of anti-HST reporting for more railway negativity.
 

trainophile

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Forgive the off topic, but re. the above comments... has anyone been watching the re-run FGW series on weekdays at 14:00 on Yesterday (channel 26)? I am convinced those platform confrontations are staged by actors or willing volunteers - for one thing the platform staff would not engage in the manner they do, and also the so-called complainers just don't appear genuine. One woman was even half-smiling while having a good old rant!

Glad to hear the fare increases have been postponed - I thought I hadn't seen anything about them this year, as they usually publish them with a bit of time to book last minute tickets at the old prices.
 

43096

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As it stands it is illegal to leave your home without a reasonable excuse. It is also illegal to enter Wales or Scotland from the UK without a reasonable excuse.
I think you need to check your geography. Last time I looked Wales and Scotland were already in the UK.
 

theironroad

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I think you need to check your geography. Last time I looked Wales and Scotland were already in the UK.

Although UK should read England in that sentence, the point stands it's current not possible to travel from England to Scotland legally, except for a exemption specified.

The position after the England lockdown ends seems confused as the Scottish government hadn't updated their rules this morning, so appears that apart from the deal agreed between all 4 nations for Christmas , it's not possible to travel to Scotland next week for leisure.

I fully understand why the individual governments want to implement their own rules ,but more co-operation of the Christmas deal wouldn't have gone amiss the last few months as the rules are a mess and a mess that changes too frequently.
 

Trackman

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Forgive the off topic, but re. the above comments... has anyone been watching the re-run FGW series on weekdays at 14:00 on Yesterday (channel 26)? I am convinced those platform confrontations are staged by actors or willing volunteers - for one thing the platform staff would not engage in the manner they do, and also the so-called complainers just don't appear genuine. One woman was even half-smiling while having a good old rant!

Glad to hear the fare increases have been postponed - I thought I hadn't seen anything about them this year, as they usually publish them with a bit of time to book last minute tickets at the old prices.
Someone has seen them 'stage' a confrontation- it's in the media & publications section I think.
Has there been a public announcement on this?
AFAIK no, but there have been mutterings about delaying the increase so people can buy cheaper season tickets.
I really don't think the trains will be that busy either.
Neither do I, I really think people are just not going to bother.
 
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