Is travelling for leisure over Xmas allowed?

[duncanp]

The guidance says, "if you live in a Tier 3 area, you must continue to follow Tier 3 rules when you travel to a Tier 1 or Tier 2 area", suggesting that such travel is permitted.

But what does the law say?

If people living in a Tier 3 area had to follow Tier 3 rules when in a Tier 1 or Tier 2 area, then that would mean, for example, that they could not visit a restaurant, pub or theatre.

The government is deliberately trying to pretend that the guidance is the same as the law, leading to confusion, and overzealous police officers on a power trip trying to throw their weight around.

 

[LAX54]

But what does the law say?

If people living in a Tier 3 area had to follow Tier 3 rules when in a Tier 1 or Tier 2 area, then that would mean, for example, that they could not visit a restaurant, pub or theatre.

The government is deliberately trying to pretend that the guidance is the same as the law, leading to confusion, and overzealous police offers on a power trip trying to throw their weight around.

Would have thought you abide by the 'area' so fi you are in T3 you abide by T3 rules, and in a T2....T2 rules

 

[221129]

Would have thought you abide by the 'area' so fi you are in T3 you abide by T3 rules, and in a T2....T2 rules

That's not what the guidance says.

 

[LAX54]

That's not what the guidance says.

Just had a read So T2 can go to T1 and T1 can go to T2, T1 & T2 can travel though T3, and try to avoid stopping within T3 unless you need to, T3 should where possible stay within T3, also I see...From 2 December, if you live in a Tier 1 or Tier 2 area, can travel to certain countries. The Foreign Office drew back its travel ban to allow non-essential trips from 2 December. A list of countries have been exempt from the current UK quarantine rules since 10 July, though this is updated frequently. This means travellers visiting the select list of countries (or coming from countries in the UK's common area – the Republic of Ireland, Channel Islands, or the Isle of Man) don't need to self-isolate upon return to England

 

[scrapy]

But what does the law say?

If people living in a Tier 3 area had to follow Tier 3 rules when in a Tier 1 or Tier 2 area, then that would mean, for example, that they could not visit a restaurant, pub or theatre.

Tier 3 rules state that theatres must close and restaurants and pubs must close or be takeaway only. (The onus is on the venue to comply, I do not believe an individual could be prosecuted for visiting one if the venue decided to break the law and open, provided they were with their household/bubble only) The law does not state that residents can't visit restaurants pubs or theatres. So if a tier 3 resident chose to ignore advise and travel out of their area they would not be commiting an offence visiting a venue that is legally open. They would however be committing an offence if they visited friends (who are not in their bubble)in a private garden at a location in tier 2, as the law specifically prohibits this.

 

[duncanp]

Tier 3 rules state that theatres must close and restaurants and pubs must close or be takeaway only. (The onus is on the venue to comply, I do not believe an individual could be prosecuted for visiting one if the venue decided to break the law and open, provided they were with their household/bubble only) They do not state that residents can't visit restaurants pubs or theatres.

When the guidance says that Tier 3 residents should follow Tier 3 rules when in a Tier 1 or Tier 2 area, I think it means with regards to indoor gatherings.

It would be nice if the guidance could be made a little clearer, but then making the guidance confusing seems to be deliberate, so it can be interpreted very strictly by all the tin pot little hitlers out there.

 

[rg177]

I doubt you would be stopped by police. During the November lockdown I had police see me at a bus stop on the way home from work, and on another day board a bus in London, but they did not do or say anything on either occasion.

Predictably I had absolutely no issues.

Police were milling about Leeds Station but seemed to mostly be there as a general presence.

 

[Gathursty]

So now London and Hertfordshire is also in Tier 3, should I still go on the trains down there or consider another part of the country?

 

[DB]

There is no law prohibiting you from travelling to other areas - it's only guidance. Provided you stick to what the law says with regard to the rules in force in whichever is the higher of either the tier where you live or the tier you are in at the time then you are compliant (e.g. if you live in a Tier 2 area and travel to Tier 3, the Tier 3 rules apply. If you live in a Tier 3 area and travel to Tier 2 then the Tier 3 rules apply). The police have no authority to prevent anyone travelling between tiers or to send them back - the most they can (legally) do is advise you, and you can choose to not follow that advice.

 

[Gathursty]

Now the South East is in Tier 4, I'll instead travel around the North West.

 

[Kite159]

Now the South East is in Tier 4, I'll instead travel around the North West.

And hopefully the North West doesn't get jacked to tier 4 in the next week

 

[Gathursty]

And hopefully the North West doesn't get jacked to tier 4 in the next week

At this rate, my Christmas might just consist of a journey from Wigan North Western to Wigan Wallgate if I'm lucky.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

At this rate, my Christmas might just consist of a journey from Wigan North Western to Wigan Wallgate if I'm lucky.

Rail replacement sleigh?

 

[theironroad]

I can forsee Boris giving into medical/science pressue and allowing national Lockdown 3 to go ahead from Boxing day.

I'd imagine a vote in parliament would be close run thing with a lot of Tory MPs protesting already.

 

[bramling]

I can forsee Boris giving into medical/science pressue and allowing national Lockdown 3 to go ahead from Boxing day.

I'd imagine a vote in parliament would be close run thing with a lot of Tory MPs protesting already.

It seems pretty clear that’s the way the wind is blowing. My moneys on 28th though, as BJ seems to like doing these things on a Monday!

 

[DB]

I'd imagine a vote in parliament would be close run thing with a lot of Tory MPs protesting already.

Which is why if he's going to do it, it will probably involve the now-normal abuse of emergency powers and doing so before 5th January when Parliament is sitting again. Plus then delaying for as long as possible the vote on it which is required within 28 days...

Let's hope that on 5th January the backbench MPs who are increasingly unhappy about this will really stir things up! Obviously no point in expecting the "opposition" to do anything other than nod at whatever Johnson proposes, or demand even stronger measures.

It seems pretty clear that’s the way the wind is blowing. My moneys on 28th though, as BJ seems to like doing these things on a Monday!

31st is a strong possiblility, to try to deflect the media from a certain even which happens on 1st January

 

[bramling]

Which is why if he's going to do it, it will probably involve the now-normal abuse of emergency powers and doing so before 5th January when Parliament is sitting again. Plus then delaying for as long as possible the vote on it which is required within 28 days...

Let's hope that on 5th January the backbench MPs who are increasingly unhappy about this will really stir things up! Obviously no point in expecting the "opposition" to do anything other than nod at whatever Johnson proposes, or demand even stronger measures.



31st is a strong possiblility, to try to deflect the media from a certain even which happens on 1st January

It’s so noticeable that there’s been nothing on Brexit over the last three or so days. Even the BBC news articles haven’t been updated. Again, all rather convenient.

 

[Jan Mayen]

It would be interesting to see what, if anything, the MP's who vote against England's Tier 4 and/or lockdown, suggest would be a good way to control the new strain of Covid19.

 

[6862]

It would be interesting to see what, if anything, the MP's who vote against England's Tier 4 and/or lockdown, suggest would be a good way to control the new strain of Covid19.

For a start they could start to be humane and less tyrannical in their 'control' methods.

But to think we can 'control' a respiratory virus at all is arrogant and presumptuous.

 

[Jan Mayen]

For a start they could start to be humane and less tyrannical in their 'control' methods.

But to think we can 'control' a respiratory virus at all is arrogant and presumptuous.

My use of the word control was wrong. A better phrase would be something like '...suggest would be a better way to reduce the number of people dieing from Covid'

 

[DB]

My use of the word control was wrong. A better phrase would be something like '...suggest would be a better way to reduce the number of people dieing from Covid'

Take steps to protect those actually at risk, so far as is possible - e.g. guaranteed home shopping deliveries for those who wish to stay at home and have a good medical reason, limiting people coming in and out of care homes (possibly offering staff significantly enhanced rates of may to live on-site for a week or fortnight at a time, with tests beforehand, and make them the only staff working with the residents most at risk). These sorts of measures could have been implemented months ago, but the government instead chose to spaff half a billion quid on half-price big macs.

But the reality is that there is a limit to what can be done. It is quite notable that there is no correlation at all across different countries between the measures taken and the number of cases - which suggests that the measures aren't doing a lot other than (possibly, in some cases) slowing the spread down a bit, but at vast costs in all other areas of life.

 

[farleigh]

My use of the word control was wrong. A better phrase would be something like '...suggest would be a better way to reduce the number of people dieing from Covid'

'with' covid

 

[142blue]

And hopefully the North West doesn't get jacked to tier 4 in the next week

It's coming, just when

 

[317 forever]

It seems pretty clear that’s the way the wind is blowing. My moneys on 28th though, as BJ seems to like doing these things on a Monday!

Mind you, he introduced this tier 4 and the November lockdown on Saturdays. He might therefore announce the extension of tier 4 to the rest of England on Saturday December 26th.