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Is Weymouth - Waterloo via Yeovil PM/Jct a Permitted route
- Thread starter richardm
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Well, yes and no.
London Terminals to Weymouth tickets are routed either "via Westbury" or "via Southampton", so neither would permit going via Salisbury. However there is a specific permitted route for the route you are proposing, so for example it is fine on a ticket from Peckham Rye to Weymouth, which is available with routes "not via London" and "+Any Permitted".
In practice I would like to hope common sense would prevail even on a London to Weymouth ticket, but something like a Peckham Rye ticket costs barely anything more, so it would be the safe option.
swt_passenger
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This has come up a couple of times, and SWT/SWR seemed to have painted themselves into a corner, with the result that when they run their summer Saturday through service from Waterloo to Weymouth by the above route, you cannot get a fare for it...
Alex365Dash
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Unless of course, you buy an advance!
swt_passenger
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Sure, but it’s not ideal is it...
Kilopylae
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Direct trains are always valid.
4COR
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Except where the tickets available are restricted by "Route: X" and none of the routes go the way of the direct train...
AFAIK the "Through train rule" still exists. Have I missed something?
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/railuk-fares-ticketing-guide-section-3-routeing.70716/
This doesn't help the OP who wants to self-transfer at Yeovil, not wait for the next through train. I would certainly take the Peckham Rye option (or similar)!
The through train rule does exist however it doesn't trump a route restriction.
A split ticketing website would sell a combination of tickets, or as others have said, a longer distance ticket may be the best way around it.
Train company websites don't generally offer to sell a combination of tickets, but some do e.g. I believe the Chiltern website will sell a combination of tickets if a through fare is unavailable.
swt_passenger
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The only fares from London Terminals are routed either via Westbury, or via Southampton, as post #2 The direct train does not go through either.
But yes, a station such as Peckham Rye overcomes the issue, but it‘s a solution most people would not know.
Thanks. Is that spelt out anywhere? If so, does our Guide need updating?
4COR
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Says in the guide on here (section 3.1.2):
"Where the route is VIA a station(s) your journey must pass through this station although the train doesn't need to stop there. Where multiple stations are separated with a hyphen, you must pass through all of them. Where they are separated by a slash, you need only pass through one of them. In addition, see Tickets routed via stations that are not on a permitted route."
"Where the route is VIA a station(s) your journey must pass through this station although the train doesn't need to stop there. Where multiple stations are separated with a hyphen, you must pass through all of them. Where they are separated by a slash, you need only pass through one of them. In addition, see Tickets routed via stations that are not on a permitted route."
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NRCoT ( available here: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/National Rail Conditions of Travel.pdf ) currently says:
"13. ROUTES YOU MAY USE
13.1 Your Ticket may show that it is valid only on certain train services,... If no specific route or Train Company is shown, then ... it will be valid on:
13.1.1. any direct train service between the station(s) shown on your Ticket;..."
That at least makes it clear that the direct train rule doesn't take priority over a geographical route and/or operator restriction.
34006
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Hi, post 2, does the + plus sign before " + any permitted " mean something ?. Beginner at ticketing.
swt_passenger
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It’s the “cross London” marker, and allows for an appropriate journey on LU, normally to join two national rail legs.
This doesn't directly answer to your question, but you might want to look at advances London to Weymouth via bath.you night be pleasantly surprised
Kilopylae
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LU or DLR
swt_passenger
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I was keeping it simple, but yes you’re right.
paul1609
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If the through train rule overode the route everybody would use Southern (route three bridges) tickets between Southampton Central and Waterloo or SWR (route Honiton) tickets between Exeter St Davids and Paddington.
When I click on the link, it takes me to a login screen. Is access to the link restricted?
Haywain
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It shouldn't be but the link appears to be broken. If you go the Fares & Ticketing Guide you can scroll down the page to find the relevant item (3.6).
The Fares & Ticketing Guide subforum is no longer open to normal members.
edit: ignore that, it’s just moved
try this link instead
Wouldn't a return to Maiden Newton be valid via either route?
If you can supply a particular itinerary I can check if it's valid or not.
For a journey from London to Maiden Newton via Weymouth using a route: any permitted ticket ? That would be sensible but unfortunately, no, I don't think it would be valid. Weymouth fails the fares check as a destination routeing point and it's a long way off being the shortest route by rail.
34006
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Just a beginner on railway fares,so go easy.
Looking up Peckham Rye shows EL + SW and SC + SW
EL is east london line to clapham junction, and SW is direct via southampton to Weymouth, which is logical to the average person.
SC takes you to the sussex coast.
No mention of Salisbury
Looking on Salisbury gives LE + EL
Penzance to London via Yeovil and Salisbury.
So how can a passenger go Peckham via Yeovil if it's not show on as a permitted route ????
Looking up Peckham Rye shows EL + SW and SC + SW
EL is east london line to clapham junction, and SW is direct via southampton to Weymouth, which is logical to the average person.
SC takes you to the sussex coast.
No mention of Salisbury
Looking on Salisbury gives LE + EL
Penzance to London via Yeovil and Salisbury.
So how can a passenger go Peckham via Yeovil if it's not show on as a permitted route ????
The routes you refer to are the mapped routes entirely avoiding London. However, as per page F9 of the Routeing Guide In Detail instructions, you will find that there is also an entry "LONDON" in the Yellow Pages.
Such an entry indicates that there are also additional permitted routes from Peckham Rye to Weymouth (subject to ticket route), namely, any combination of:
a) a permitted route from Peckham to London
b) a cross-London transfer if required
c) a permitted route from London to Weymouth
You can even use a "not via London" ticket on a combination of the above, if you switch from a) to c) at a common point and avoid London Terminals in doing so. For example, changing from PK to SW at Clapham Junction.
The Routeing Guide is a subject so complex you could probably write a thesis on it. In reality booking engines (are supposed to) implement it all automatically and passengers will only be offered itineraries in conjunction with valid tickets for said itinerary, and that will be enough for most people.
34006
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Thank you for explaining that, it is very complicated, perhaps I'll stick to crosswords.
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