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Island Line Upgrade updates

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Chris125

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The LT Museums 'Hidden London' team did some filming last week, our first real look at these trains in action onboard and from the cab - Hidden London Hangouts

Presumably level boarding was harder to achieve than hoped? After so much work the height difference at Brading is surprising....

 
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alf

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53 mins is 40 mins too long.

Gave up counting the use of the word “amazing” after literally 32 amazings by 24 minutes.

But very professional camerawork & good tour of 484 cab.
Agree Brading is not level boarding.
I wonder why? No load on the rubber suspension?
 

Chris125

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Agree Brading is not level boarding.
I wonder why? No load on the rubber suspension?

It's not the trains, photos of Shanklin show almost zero height difference and Pier Head/St Johns look there-or-thereabouts. Brading *is* on a moderate curve but considering the time and money spent replacing a culvert, rebuilding/underpinning the platforms and lowering quite a lengthy section of track it's not what I was expecting.
 

Chris125

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Because level boarding would require the platform edge to be further back from the train (particularly on a curved platform)?

Maybe, but it's not much worse than the shallow curve at Shanklin and the height difference is more than I'd expect for that.

Ironically Brading was one of the few stations where 483s were more-or-less level with the platform...


IMG_5525 by Chris W 72, on Flickr
 

Mcq

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53 mins is 40 mins too long.

Gave up counting the use of the word “amazing” after literally 32 amazings by 24 minutes.

But very professional camerawork & good tour of 484 cab.
Agree Brading is not level boarding.
I wonder why? No load on the rubber suspension?
Completely agree with alf.
Well shot video cringeworthy presenters.
Look forward to another trip by Geoff Marshall he knows how to do these things professionally.
 

Chris125

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Completely agree with alf.
Well shot video cringeworthy presenters.
Look forward to another trip by Geoff Marshall he knows how to do these things professionally.

Aside from being different formats for different audiences, these things take time to evolve - Geoff has been filming similar videos for well over a decade semi-professionally and the quality has improved significantly in that time; equally these 'hangouts' only started because of the pandemic, filmed during their spare time from the day job, and the quality has massively improved as they gain experience of what works and what doesn't.

Anyways, the SWR timetable for Nov 1st - Dec 11th: https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/~/media/1504b04638514a7b8c26faa1ae5fea35.ashx
 

hermit

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Aside from being different formats for different audiences, these things take time to evolve - Geoff has been filming similar videos for well over a decade semi-professionally and the quality has improved significantly in that time; equally these 'hangouts' only started because of the pandemic, filmed during their spare time from the day job, and the quality has massively improved as they gain experience of what works and what doesn't.

Anyways, the SWR timetable for Nov 1st - Dec 11th: https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/~/media/1504b04638514a7b8c26faa1ae5fea35.ashx
The timetable is interesting and reassuring in that it shows the reasonably efficient connections that we have been used to at Portsmouth Harbour between train and catamaran - typically 11-12 minutes. But journey planners do not show these, as they now apply a minimum 20 minute connection at Portsmouth, meaning that journeys to Island Line stations are shown as an hour longer than they really are.

This raises the interesting question as to which journey time would be applicable in the event of a Delay Repay claim involving an island destination - that shown in the new Island Line timetable, or the one shown in journey planners?
 

DynamicSpirit

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That timetable shows some pretty slow journey times: 3 minutes to go less than a mile from Lake to Sandown. 5 minutes for just under 2 miles Sandown to Brading. Then 8 minutes to go just over 3 miles non-stop Brading to Ryde St. John's Road! In total it's 24-25 minutes to go barely 8 miles - an average speed of less than 20mph. Could they not eek slightly faster speeds out of brand new rolling stock on a freshly relaid track?
 

D6130

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That timetable shows some pretty slow journey times: 3 minutes to go less than a mile from Lake to Sandown. 5 minutes for just under 2 miles Sandown to Brading. Then 8 minutes to go just over 3 miles non-stop Brading to Ryde St. John's Road! In total it's 24-25 minutes to go barely 8 miles - an average speed of less than 20mph. Could they not eek slightly faster speeds out of brand new rolling stock on a freshly relaid track?
I expect they'll be letting the trains, the crews and the track settle-in slowly initially. With experience of operating the new stock and bedding-in the track, speeds and timings may be improved before too long. Don't forget that only a small proportion of the track has actually been renewed. Most of it has just been reballasted and fettled-up, with a bit of joint straightening here and there.
 

45669

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The times shown are departure times; arrival times are not shown so perhaps some of the surplus minutes are swallowed up with the dwell time?
 

Ianno87

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What's the actual advantage of faster timings, other than getting to the bustling metropolis of Shanklin a minute or two quicker, or having an extra minute in the queue for the ferry?

Let the stock and infrastructure bed in, then tighten up a little at a later date.
 

DynamicSpirit

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What's the actual advantage of faster timings, other than getting to the bustling metropolis of Shanklin a minute or two quicker, or having an extra minute in the queue for the ferry?

Making rail slightly more attractive? Faster timings could be expected to induce some people who are just sitting on the fence between choosing rail and choosing the car to opt for the train. And of course it makes for shorter, and therefore more convenient, journeys, for anyone already using the train. Those seem to me like pretty standard answers that would apply anywhere in the country, so I'm not sure why you'd be asking?

Let the stock and infrastructure bed in, then tighten up a little at a later date.

Yeah, if they are planning to speed it up a bit once everything is bedded in, that would make sense.
 

Gloster

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What's the actual advantage of faster timings, other than getting to the bustling metropolis of Shanklin a minute or two quicker, or having an extra minute in the queue for the ferry?

Let the stock and infrastructure bed in, then tighten up a little at a later date.
Of greater use is the ability to catch up if the arriving ferries are a bit late. The out and back trip between one ferry and the next can be a bit tight at times.
 

Chris125

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I think they need to prove the existing timings can be reliably maintained before anyone worries about speeding things up - AIUI the loop at Brading would ideally be further north for a 30min service so we'll have to see how the timetable copes with speed restrictions, the inevitable door issues, late ferries and the like.
 
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Ianno87

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Making rail slightly more attractive? Faster timings could be expected to induce some people who are just sitting on the fence between choosing rail and choosing the car to opt for the train. And of course it makes for shorter, and therefore more convenient, journeys, for anyone already using the train. Those seem to me like pretty standard answers that would apply anywhere in the country, so I'm not sure why you'd be asking?

Because I find it hard to imagine that a minute or two difference on the sleepy Isle of Wight is going to be a particular game changer.
 

norbitonflyer

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Looking at National Rail departures and RTT, it doesn't seem to have gone well this morning. The first train (0545 from Pier Head) arrived at Shanklin 10 minutes late, and got back to St Johns Road 25 minutes late, then taking an hour to reach Esplanade where it terminated at 0748.

No sign on RTT that the 0645 or 0745 from Pier Head ran, although the return workings (0715 and 0815 from Shanklin) apparently did. The 0915 out/0945 return have been cancelled

Anyone know what went wrong?
 
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30907

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Looking at National Rail departures and RTT, it doesn't seem to have gone well this morning. The first train (0545 from Pier Head) arrived at Shanklin 10 minutes late, and got back to St Johns Road 25 minutes late, then taking an hour to reach Esplanade where it terminated at 0748.

No sign on RTT that the 0645 or 0745 from Pier Head ran, although the return workings (0715 and 0815 from Shanklin) apparently did. The 0915 out/0945 return have been cancelled

Anyone know what went wrong?
RTT for St Johns Road gives a better picture:
first down train lost time, was 15 late on return (station overtime didn't help - possibly a wheelchair user?) and terminated.
Next two ran +10
0845 down was cancelled for whatever reason, 0945 ran.
 

Rick1984

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They're upgrading the Portsmouth ferry terminal again? That's the 3rd time I know of in around 10 years. Seems excessive
 

paul1609

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A five year cycle doesn't seem to be excessive for what's basically a platoon floating in Portsmouth Harbour. It would fit well with the major refit cycle on ships.
 

swt_passenger

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A five year cycle doesn't seem to be excessive for what's basically a platoon floating in Portsmouth Harbour. It would fit well with the major refit cycle on ships.
Nice typo. or auto correct? Amphibious soldiers? :D
 
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Chris125

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RTT for St Johns Road gives a better picture:
first down train lost time, was 15 late on return (station overtime didn't help - possibly a wheelchair user?) and terminated.
Next two ran +10
0845 down was cancelled for whatever reason, 0945 ran.

I gather there was a signalling issue at St Johns. Sods law!
 

davetheguard

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53 mins is 40 mins too long.

Gave up counting the use of the word “amazing” after literally 32 amazings by 24 minutes.

Agreed. Great to see the service restated and the new units in operation.

But they really need to give that video a brutal edit - all that zoom stuff filmed away from the railway could go for a start. Too much luvvy drooling that wasn't amazing.
 

Chris125

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But they really need to give that video a brutal edit - all that zoom stuff filmed away from the railway could go for a start. Too much luvvy drooling that wasn't amazing.

The 'zoom stuff' is why they describe these films as hangouts - they only exist because of lockdown when there was little opportunity for location filming, and it makes sense for their normal subject of disused tube stations where they can use their expertise to talk through old photos and other bits and pieces from the LT museum's archives.

Are they using the loop line at Brading?
 
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Chris999999

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RTT for St Johns Road gives a better picture:
first down train lost time, was 15 late on return (station overtime didn't help - possibly a wheelchair user?) and terminated.
Next two ran +10
0845 down was cancelled for whatever reason, 0945 ran.
So after 10 months of no service and many millions of pounds we are back where we started:

Only one train an hour running
Trains being cancelled
Trains regularly running late
 
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