Island Line Upgrade updates

[trebor79]

More to the point, the passenger numbers to justify it have not been there for many years.

When I rode the line there was zero revenue enforcement and I was the only person I witnessed buy a ticket at any of the stations. I didn't see anyone tap in with a smart card either.
The train was full and standing.

I don't doubt the stats indicate low ridership. The reality is somewhat different.

 

[trainmania100]

Facebook certainly seems to have very wide coverage of the 483s lately, plenty of pics going around as everyone says their goodbyes.

 

[Rick1984]

Class 483 was the first available number in the 48x range. The others had been used/reserved as follows:

• 482 - 1992 Tube Stock for the Waterloo & City Line
• 485/486 - Standard Stock for Island Line (originally 4VEC and 3TIS, respectively, latterly 5VEC and 2TIS)
• 487 - 1940 Stock for the Waterloo & City Line
• 488 - Mk 2F coaches for Gatwick Express
• 489 - Driving Trailers and Luggage Vans for Gatwick Express (converted from 2HAP Driving Motor vehicles)

Cheers thanks for clearing that up

 

[hermit]

When I rode the line there was zero revenue enforcement and I was the only person I witnessed buy a ticket at any of the stations. I didn't see anyone tap in with a smart card either.
The train was full and standing.

I don't doubt the stats indicate low ridership. The reality is somewhat different.

I agree that the statistics based on tickets issued are pretty meaningless, given as you say the lack of enforcement and the difficulty of buying tickets on the train (even for those who make the effort). None of the stations except Shanklin and Esplanade have ticket-issuing facilities. I gather that part of the forthcoming upgrade is to provide ticket machines at all stations. The smart card system has never been activated, as far as I know.

There are also indeed times when the trains are busy, often with those making local journeys rather than connecting with the ferry. Certain trains are uncomfortably full of schoolchildren going to Ryde or Sandown.

But none of this would justify provision of a shuttle. If every ferry is met by a train perfectly capable (even with standing as far as Esplanade) of taking all the passengers wanting to use it there is no case for it. Bear in mind that usually a majority of the maximum 260 people arriving off the ferry will be met by someone in a car, will take a taxi, will pick up their own car from the Pierhead carpark, or will simply walk or cycle down the pier. Those of us heading for the train are usually a small minority.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Cheers thanks for clearing that up

There was a sort of logic in the classification of the W&C stocks traditionally SR classes ending in "2" were 4-car units (albeit usually with buffet cars! - e.g the 4BEPs, 4BIGs and 4REPs - classes 412, 422 and 432) although a number ending in "3" might have been more appropriate for a 4-car train with no buffet (as in the 4CAPs and 4VEPs - classes 413 and 423. (But 483 had already been taken by the IoW stock.

484 fits the pattern though, as the 414s were 2 car units (2HAP). (485 and 486 for four- and two/three car units with no 1st class had of course already been used)

Of course, on the Big Trains, the numbering has gone haywire since privatisation- a 444 should be a 2 car outer-suburban unit!

 

[VEP3417]

what happens when we run out of class numbers for new trains....

 

[pdeaves]

what happens when we run out of class numbers for new trains....

My view is that we should introduce letters, so you'd have (say) 87, 88, 89, 8A, 8B, 8C, etc. However, I suspect reality would more likely be a system overhaul. Thankfully, there's enough 'space' for the time being!

 

[Bletchleyite]

My view is that we should introduce letters, so you'd have (say) 87, 88, 89, 8A, 8B, 8C, etc. However, I suspect reality would more likely be a system overhaul. Thankfully, there's enough 'space' for the time being!

Or you reuse numbers, which has I believe been done in the past. Within a few months classes 100-149 will all be spare, for example.

 

[Journeyman]

Or you reuse numbers, which has I believe been done in the past. Within a few months classes 100-149 will all be spare, for example.

Apparently there's a rule that you need to leave seven years before reusing numbers, which presumably is designed to eliminate confusion in record keeping, but yes, I don't honestly see there being a shortage of class numbers any time soon. Individual vehicles in multiple units have switched to a new system recently anyway.

 

[Gloster]

Volume 5 of the Quail track diagrams is dated September 2002 and shows the second track down the pier out of use.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apparently there's a rule that you need to leave seven years before reusing numbers, which presumably is designed to eliminate confusion in record keeping, but yes, I don't honestly see there being a shortage of class numbers any time soon. Individual vehicles in multiple units have switched to a new system recently anyway.

Well (admittedly I forgot 139) - the entirety of 100-138 plus 140, 141, 151, 152 (was that ever used?), 154 (I think that was used for a testbed 150 with upgraded engines?) and 157 would pass that 7 year limit.

Even with the silly way we are giving out different class numbers for a unit that has different coloured seat coverings at the moment (well, not far off) that's still loads.

 

[Journeyman]

Well (admittedly I forgot 139) - the entirety of 100-138 plus 140, 141, 151, 152 (was that ever used?), 154 (I think that was used for a testbed 150 with upgraded engines?) and 157 would pass that 7 year limit.

Even with the silly way we are giving out different class numbers for a unit that has different coloured seat coverings at the moment (well, not far off) that's still loads.

Yup. Plenty free in the 2xx, 3xx, 4xx, 5xx, 6xx, 7xx and 8xx ranges too! Only locomotives, if you want to stick to the traditional power range blocks, might present problems if loads of new types appeared at once, but that's hardly likely.

 

[VEP3417]

we seem to prefer to keep rebuilding old traction again and again...we just cant get rid of the good old oldies!

 

[Bow Fell]

What kind of state is the subway at Esplanade in? Still completely flooded?

Has anyone ever took pictures to show the scale of how bad it is?

 

[Howardh]

I was on them yesterday, I'll post pics when I get home. Very nostalgic, .skipped a beat when one arrived on the pier.

Lovable as they are, I'm sorry to say they simply aren't fit for the purpose, the trains are sound enough but at high speed I thought we were going to derail....

Basically, the nostalgia freaks like me love them, but I wouldn't be surprised if locals shun them. Once the line is upgraded and newer older stock introduced, could the current units go to the steam line and be pulled by diesel, Alderney style, or are they too far gone for that?

 

[VEP3417]

the current units are fairly good condition, looks wise anyway but the spares ones are not so good, many robbed of parts with gutted interiors

 

[D365]

Last week I went past Merseyrail Birkenhead North depot, I saw a Vivarail unit inside, which looks very similar to the new Island Line 484 train.

Class 230 for Transport for Wales.

Facebook certainly seems to have very wide coverage of the 483s lately, plenty of pics going around as everyone says their goodbyes.

Is the line shutting down today?

 

[DelW]

Is the line shutting down today?

The current service should continue until early January, when the line closes for infrastructure changes to accommodate the new trains.

 

[Chris125]

Lovable as they are, I'm sorry to say they simply aren't fit for the purpose, the trains are sound enough but at high speed I thought we were going to derail....

To be fair it's the track which should take much of the blame for that, they ride perfectly fine where it's been renewed. As for the locals we've never known any different - your only on it for a few minutes anyway.

 

[hermit]

To be fair it's the track which should take much of the blame for that, they ride perfectly fine where it's been renewed. As for the locals we've never known any different - your only on it for a few minutes anyway.

I think most locals take the view that it’s worth putting up with a bit of bouncing if it gets you there twice as fast as the bus.

For my part, the most alarming recent experiences have been violent sideways lurches on Class 377s on the Arun Valley line, and on 450s on the Portsmouth Direct. Trying to drink a hot coffee anywhere south of Guildford is hazardous in the extreme.

 

[K.o.R]

I think most locals take the view that it’s worth putting up with a bit of bouncing if it gets you there twice as fast as the bus.

For my part, the most alarming recent experiences have been violent sideways lurches on Class 377s on the Arun Valley line, and on 450s on the Portsmouth Direct. Trying to drink a hot coffee anywhere south of Guildford is hazardous in the extreme.

There's a couple of nasty bumps just past the north end of the platform at Amberley. You can see the train lurch from the platform.

 

[fgwrich]

I think most locals take the view that it’s worth putting up with a bit of bouncing if it gets you there twice as fast as the bus.

For my part, the most alarming recent experiences have been violent sideways lurches on Class 377s on the Arun Valley line, and on 450s on the Portsmouth Direct. Trying to drink a hot coffee anywhere south of Guildford is hazardous in the extreme.

Going off topic, but I still think the awful layout at Worting Junction takes some beating - Free Rollercoaster passing over that at Speed, more so heading Northbound.

I hope the upgrade includes CWR, though it would interesting to see how they get it over to the Island. I'm not sure who has more random mixed lengths of track going, Island Line (and that stretch between Smallbrook / Brading / Sandown) or some of the routes in Scotland i.e Far North.

 

[Chris125]

I hope the upgrade includes CWR, though it would interesting to see how they get it over to the Island. I'm not sure who has more random mixed lengths of track going, Island Line (and that stretch between Smallbrook / Brading / Sandown) or some of the routes in Scotland i.e Far North.

They've already mentioned welding rail joints together so it's coming - a section was done in the early years of privatisation near Lake so they'll presumably follow a similar methodology?

 

[D365]

The current service should continue until early January, when the line closes for infrastructure changes to accommodate the new trains.

Was a bit confused as to why everyone is saying "bye" already.

 

[hermit]

Was a bit confused as to why everyone is saying "bye" already.

Come early and come often, I say. The island needs the visitors.

There’s already a feeling of déjà vu for those of us who came to see the end of steam in December 1966.

 

[Robertj21a]

Was a bit confused as to why everyone is saying "bye" already.

End of the 'good' weather for photos etc ?

 

[VEP3417]

i went "early" as i was under the impression the line was closing at the end of this month for some work so assumed thats when the full work was starting, then it was mentioned it wasnt closing till the 3rd of jan or there abouts, might have to make another trip then, but yes many people taking photos/videos when i was there earlier this month,

whos clever idea was it to shut half the island line anyway....the bus journey from one side to the other is so slow and long and you have to change half way way trough (yes i know it was beaching) imagine how much quicker/pleasant it would be with 1 rail journey

 

[K.o.R]

i went "early" as i was under the impression the line was closing at the end of this month for some work so assumed thats when the full work was starting, then it was mentioned it wasnt closing till the 3rd of jan or there abouts, might have to make another trip then, but yes many people taking photos/videos when i was there earlier this month,

whos clever idea was it to shut half the island line anyway....the bus journey from one side to the other is so slow and long and you have to change half way way trough (yes i know it was beaching) imagine how much quicker/pleasant it would be with 1 rail journey

An Island Circle Line would certainly be nice.

 

[DelW]

whos clever idea was it to shut half the island line anyway....the bus journey from one side to the other is so slow and long and you have to change half way way trough (yes i know it was beaching) imagine how much quicker/pleasant it would be with 1 rail journey

Well, everything west of Newport closed to passengers in 1953, and everything south of Newport in 1956, so I don't think Beeching can be blamed for either.

 

[30907]

whos clever idea was it to shut half the island line anyway....the bus journey from one side to the other is so slow and long and you have to change half way way trough (yes i know it was beaching) imagine how much quicker/pleasant it would be with 1 rail journey

Depends which pair of stations you mean, but Cowes to Ventnor by bus now is 10-20min faster than a post-Beeching train, and not much more than Cowes-Ventnor West pre-war.