ITSO Smartcard oddities with GWR and SWR

[penguin8967]

So as you might know, GWR and SWR both call their smartcards the 'Touch' smartcard. However, I've been looking on both of their apps at different tickets and my findings are rather strange.

On both apps, I searched for an off peak return from Swindon to Cheltenham Spa (both stations and trains are all run by GWR on this route). The GWR app said the only options were mobile tickets or collecting at a station. But the SWR app strangely says that you can load a ticket to a smartcard! But there's more; only a return is available like this, not a single, and it can only be purchased from the app and not online.

Does anyone know why this is? Both the start and end stations have full smartcard support so I don't see a reason why GWR shouldn't offer it.

 

[Birmingham]

I don't have the answer to your question, but I've tried this. I wanted the ticket on a smartcard (out of curiosity), so I purchased the ticket on the SWR app, using the option to load it directly from an Android phone to the smartcard. However, it kept failing at the step of loading the ticket to the smartcard.

I followed this up with SWR customer relations after the fact who told me that daily tickets can only be loaded to a smartcard at the ticket machines at the station and not from a mobile phone - which wouldn't work in this case as I don't believe GWR ticket machines (which would be at these stations) have any smartcard functionality, and I don't recall this ticket delivery option when purchasing anyway.

Clearly they haven't bothered to remove the erroneous option since - and this was over two months ago!

 

[crablab]

SWR will only sell a subset of tickets on smartcards, from what I understand (eg. not Super Off Peak Travelcards)

 

[Wallsendmag]

GWR will control what is enabled for those flows.

 

[lkpridgeon]

Does anyone know why this is? Both the start and end stations have full smartcard support so I don't see a reason why GWR shouldn't offer it.

It looks like GWR are only offering tickets where a tap in/out is not required hence why they aren't offering it. If you do buy a ticket via SWR you will need to ensure both your origin and destination station have readers/gates capable of accepting the card.

SWR will only sell a subset of tickets on smartcards, from what I understand (eg. not Super Off Peak Travelcards)

They do sell Super Off Peak travelcards, however it is direct fulfilment to the ITSO card from your phone only last I checked. Generally you can buy most tickets between any station that they've marked as ready for smartcards in the leaflet they send you.

I don't have the answer to your question, but I've tried this. I wanted the ticket on a smartcard (out of curiosity), so I purchased the ticket on the SWR app, using the option to load it directly from an Android phone to the smartcard. However, it kept failing at the step of loading the ticket to the smartcard.

I followed this up with SWR customer relations after the fact who told me that daily tickets can only be loaded to a smartcard at the ticket machines at the station and not from a mobile phone - which wouldn't work in this case as I don't believe GWR ticket machines (which would be at these stations) have any smartcard functionality, and I don't recall this ticket delivery option when purchasing anyway.

Clearly they haven't bothered to remove the erroneous option since - and this was over two months ago!

There are a few quirks with their direct fulfilment system hence they're not currently pushing it/advising people to use it. The issue you're having is generally caused when old tickets haven't been cleared off the card properly as this is only done at the TVM, not the readers. You may also hit issues if trying to add a ticket that is time restricted before the ticket is valid ie: in the case of railcard discounts.

From experience customer relations & front-line staff have had very little training on smartcards barring how to deal with season tickets. In cae of an issue arising you're best bet is to call and ask for the Smartcard team (or email and wait about 3 weeks for a response).

 

[crablab]

They do sell Super Off Peak travelcards, however it is direct fulfilment to the ITSO card from your phone only last I checked.

Weird. They categorically told me they didn't sell them when I asked why I couldn't buy one at a station. No mention of direct fulfilment from the app!

 

[lkpridgeon]

Weird. They categorically told me they didn't sell them when I asked why I couldn't buy one at a station. No mention of direct fulfilment from the app!

Unfortunately station staff haven't been given much if any training on the Smartcards although I've been informed by station staff at Winchester there's talk about doing so if/when they enable ticket offices to handle smartcard affairs.

Some things are enabled for public use and working to some degree however are currently being kept quiet because they're still testing/working on it. A la direct fulfilment is very much a work in progress. This has only recently been re-enabled for the general public to buy tickets (it was never technically disabled, you just couldn't add a payment method to actually buy the ticket unless registered for Tap2Go). So if you do have an issue your best bet is to call the smartcard number and ask for the Smartcard team or use the dedicated email.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Strange that SWR Ticket Offices can’t handle ITSO as they have the same kit as us.

 

[lkpridgeon]

Strange that SWR Ticket Offices can’t handle ITSO as they have the same kit as us.

It could be lack of training to be fair.

I know they moved to a new system last year in the ticket offices. I've been told they don't have facility to read/write to the cards at the office whether this is true, is a different story.

 

[Haywain]

Strange that SWR Ticket Offices can’t handle ITSO as they have the same kit as us.

They could have the same system without the smartcard reader.

 

[Wallsendmag]

It could be lack of training to be fair.

I know they moved to a new system last year in the ticket offices. I've been told they don't have facility to read/write to the cards at the office whether this is true, is a different story.

They could have the same system without the smartcard reader.

Could well be the case.

 

[crablab]

So if you do have an issue your best bet is to call the smartcard number and ask for the Smartcard team or use the dedicated email.

This was the smartcards team, as I recall

 

[Bread & cheese]

SWR ticket offices use a tablet-based ticket issuing system which is capable of issue of tickets onto smartcards.
However, issue of tickets onto smartcards has not been enabled, and ticket office staff have not been trained in smartcard procedures.
Smartcards can be read by placing the card on the rear of the tablet, but staff, having not been trained, are generally not aware of this.

 

[lkpridgeon]

SWR ticket offices use a tablet-based ticket issuing system which is capable of issue of tickets onto smartcards.
However, issue of tickets onto smartcards has not been enabled, and ticket office staff have not been trained in smartcard procedures.
Smartcards can be read by placing the card on the rear of the tablet, but staff, having not been trained, are generally not aware of this.

That's interesting. If that's the case I wonder when they'll get their act into gear and give them some level of training in how to deal with them.

 

[DelW]

That's interesting. If that's the case I wonder when they'll get their act into gear and give them some level of training in how to deal with them.

As the line goes, "this year, next year, sometime, never" - since it's SWR we're talking about, my money would be on sometime or never.

SWT fitted multiple card readers at each entrance to my local station at least ten years ago (long before there were gates), and I have never ever seen anyone use one.

 

[crablab]

SWT fitted multiple card readers at each entrance to my local station at least ten years ago (long before there were gates), and I have never ever seen anyone use one.

I used them fairly regularly and saw others doing so too. I guess it depends how many commuters your station has.

 

[Wallsendmag]

SWR ticket offices use a tablet-based ticket issuing system which is capable of issue of tickets onto smartcards.
However, issue of tickets onto smartcards has not been enabled, and ticket office staff have not been trained in smartcard procedures.
Smartcards can be read by placing the card on the rear of the tablet, but staff, having not been trained, are generally not aware of this.

How quaint.

 

[plymothian]

GWR are the reverse of SWR with their smartcard implementation.
GWR have enabled their staff (stations and on board) to fulfil to ITSO, and via their website and TVMs but only season tickets through their app.

On board ITSO only started last week and you'll find some staff are probably unwilling to try yet as they'd only just learnt ttk Avocet before revenue was suspended due to Covid and still finding their feet again.

 

[lkpridgeon]

GWR are the reverse of SWR with their smartcard implementation.
GWR have enabled their staff (stations and on board) to fulfil to ITSO, and via their website and TVMs but not through the app.

On board ITSO only started last week and you'll find some staff are probably unwilling to try yet as they'd only just learnt ttk Avocet before revenue was suspended due to Covid and still finding their feet again.

SWR have ITSO fulfillment via some of their TVM's.

 

[crablab]

SWR have ITSO fulfillment via some of their TVM's.

If you buy a ticket online, it can also be fulfilled by tapping in at the starting station.

Don't most, if not all, SWR TVMs support ITSO?

Apparently SWR use ITSO Transit Hub for the mobile fulfilment, which also supports adding tickets and passes to Google Pay.

 

[lkpridgeon]

If you buy a ticket online, it can also be fulfilled by tapping in at the starting station.

Don't most, if not all, SWR TVMs support ITSO?

Apparently SWR use ITSO Transit Hub for the mobile fulfilment, which also supports adding tickets and passes to Google Pay.

If you buy online I believe only season tickets can be fulfilled at the station.

The traditional TVM's can but their fancy newer ones with the remote call centre support feature do not.

That's interesting, I've been using the LNER app wherever I've needed to use e-tickets as I thought they didn't support Google pay (yet).

 

[Birmingham]

There are a few quirks with their direct fulfilment system hence they're not currently pushing it/advising people to use it. The issue you're having is generally caused when old tickets haven't been cleared off the card properly as this is only done at the TVM, not the readers. You may also hit issues if trying to add a ticket that is time restricted before the ticket is valid ie: in the case of railcard discounts.

From experience customer relations & front-line staff have had very little training on smartcards barring how to deal with season tickets. In cae of an issue arising you're best bet is to call and ask for the Smartcard team (or email and wait about 3 weeks for a response).

It was the 'smartcard team' who I emailed (something like smartcard@) and they definitively told me that 'daily tickets can only be loaded to a smartcard at the ticket machines at the station and not from a mobile phone'.

To clarify, is there any way to direct fulfil tickets to ITSO from an app? It would probably be the only useful way in which I could use ITSO. If I have to go to a TVM or ticket office to use it then I'm better off just using an e-ticket on my phone.

GWR have enabled their staff (stations and on board) to fulfil to ITSO, and via their website and TVMs but not through the app.

Is that so? I didn't think it was possible to fulfil to ITSO on GWR TVMs. That's what they told me last time I asked, but admittedly that was a) a while ago and b) to their Twitter team and not any kind of dedicated smartcard support.

 

[crablab]

That's interesting, I've been using the LNER app wherever I've needed to use e-tickets as I thought they didn't support Google pay (yet).

Slight complication here. E-tickets (from any TOC) can be added to Google Pay since it's just a load of data encoded as an Aztec 'QR' code, displayed on your screen to scan at the gateline.
LNER, for example, have 'Add to Apple/Google Pay' buttons on their website.

This is entirely different from adding an ITSO card to Google Pay (which it supports), which would mean, just like with a bank card, your phone is emulating the smartcard via the NFC interface.
In order for Google Pay to provision an ITSO card, it needs to talk to the ITSO Transit Hub to get the relevant keys and certificates.

First Glasgow and a tram operator (Maybe Manchester?) support adding ITSO tickets to your Google Pay wallet, which you then present as you would a bank card on your phone.

 

[lkpridgeon]

To clarify, is there any way to direct fulfil tickets to ITSO from an app? It would probably be the only useful way in which I could use ITSO. If I have to go to a TVM or ticket office to use it then I'm better off just using an e-ticket on my phone.

Yes it is possible as I do so daily on trips between Micheldever and Winchester/Basingstoke.

Slight complication here. E-tickets (from any TOC) can be added to Google Pay since it's just a load of data encoded as an Aztec 'QR' code, displayed on your screen to scan at the gateline.
LNER, for example, have 'Add to Apple/Google Pay' buttons on their website.

This is entirely different from adding an ITSO card to Google Pay (which it supports), which would mean, just like with a bank card, your phone is emulating the smartcard via the NFC interface.
In order for Google Pay to provision an ITSO card, it needs to talk to the ITSO Transit Hub to get the relevant keys and certificates.

First Glasgow and a tram operator (Maybe Manchester?) support adding ITSO tickets to your Google Pay wallet, which you then present as you would a bank card on your phone.

That's quite interesting. What I would like to see is e/m-tickets that also have ITSO support if using the TOC app/Google pay. As it would make things a lot quicker at the barriers and solve the issue with conductors being confused about you using the 'wrong companies' smartcard.

I don't think the SWR app allows for ITSO fulfilment to Google Pay (yet) as it requires the card to be tapped against the device twice in the process (I tried to write an automation script to launch the app with the card information populated when the card was tapped against my phone) and couldn't get it working without that extra tap.

 

[plymothian]

Is that so? I didn't think it was possible to fulfil to ITSO on GWR TVMs. That's what they told me last time I asked, but admittedly that was a) a while ago and b) to their Twitter team and not any kind of dedicated smartcard support.

Yes, the TVMs have a dedicated ITSO menu.

Chippenham - Swindon is a smart enabled flow for most ticket types.

GWR Smart Enabled flows are:

7DS, 7DF, PSS, PSF, 7TS, 7FT, TRV, TVF anywhere to anywhere
ADT, FDT, SDS, SOS, FOS, FDS, SVS, FSS, CDS, SDR, FDR, SOR, FOR, CDR, FRX, SVR, FSR, FCR at least one station must be a GWR gated station

 

[crablab]

What I would like to see is e/m-tickets that also have ITSO support if using the TOC app/Google pay.

Agreed.

 

[lkpridgeon]

It was the 'smartcard team' who I emailed (something like smartcard@) and they definitively told me that 'daily tickets can only be loaded to a smartcard at the ticket machines at the station and not from a mobile phone'.

To clarify, is there any way to direct fulfil tickets to ITSO from an app? It would probably be the only useful way in which I could use ITSO. If I have to go to a TVM or ticket office to use it then I'm better off just using an e-ticket on my phone.

Once you buy one you just click my tickets and click the load ticket button, just checked this morning and it is definitely still enabled on the SWR app.

 

[island]

To clarify, is there any way to direct fulfil tickets to ITSO from an app? It would probably be the only useful way in which I could use ITSO. If I have to go to a TVM or ticket office to use it then I'm better off just using an e-ticket on my phone.

I have done so frequently from the Southeastern app on my iPhone X.

(The app also reads other operators’ ITSO cards.)

 

[penguin8967]

A few days ago, I did a journey solely on GWR (and only GWR managed stations) using an SWR ITSO card. I managed to buy the ticket and load it using only my phone and the SWR app - although the GWR app reads the card, it doesn't let you select ITSO as an option.

The card read fine at both the start and end stations (which had readers on the barriers), and it was checked by the train manager onboard using an app on his phone.

When buying it, I noticed that I could only buy a return ticket for the next day, not on the day.

 

[Birmingham]

Once you buy one you just click my tickets and click the load ticket button, just checked this morning and it is definitely still enabled on the SWR app.

Yep, that's where I got stuck loading the ticket that I purchased with this fulfilment option as per my post #2. At that page in the app, it instead said 'An exception loading smartcard occurred. Please try again' (I tried many times...)

It seems like the consensus is that what I was told by SWR's smartcard support - that the daily tickets can't be loaded to ITSO from the mobile app - is not true, as a number of you report having been able to do this. Therefore, I still don't quite understand why I wasn't able to!