Jubilee loco names

[daveinstoke]

Many years ago, I served in the army. At 17 I was serving in the Falkland islands in 1982 then to Ireland , Hong Kong via Sri Lanka ( Ceylon ). Then on to Fiji & Brunei. What was Brunei called or a part of....
was it Sarawak or north Borneo ?
At the time I was serving with the 22nd Cheshire regiment.
I want to collect a few models of the Jubilee class locos as to where I served in my military service.
hope this makes sense .
thanks David

 

[EbbwJunction1]

A list of names can be found at this link:LMS Jubilees - details

From a brief look, you'll have quite a few to choose from:
Falkland Islands - 45606
Ireland (Ulster) - 45739
Hong Kong - 45611
Sri Lanka (Ceylon) - 45604
Fiji - 45607

The was no loco called Brunei, but you have
Sarawak - 45625
and / or North Borneo - 45620.

I hope that this helps - best of luck!

 

[daveinstoke]

thanks for the info, I do know that some of the class changed names. It will make a nice display with my medals & memories.
David.

 

[RAPC]

Without sounding too American, thank you for your service David. You certainly got to see a lot of the world!

 

[70014IronDuke]

The Jubilee's naming logic was about as sane as most things in the UK (I write that in awe, not in anger). You had Eire (had been Irish Free State, I believe) then, at the end, the four 'states' of the island of Ireland. You had a bunch of Indian cities of city-states (Bombay, Madras, Bhopal?) and princely states (Kashmir, Travnacore), but not others? Why not?

There again, compared to the Southern's King Arthurs, which had the same character named twice over, I suppose the LMS seemed perfectly rational

 

[Irascible]

Sarawak and Sabah ( was British North Borneo at one point ) have been part of Brunei at some point in history. Malaysian territories haver a confusing past

 

[daveinstoke]

thank you for the info. yes it was a turbulent time.
Christmas is a special time for myself. & my memories.
David.

 

[WesternLancer]

thank you for the info. yes it was a turbulent time.
Christmas is a special time for myself. & my memories.
David.

Your plan is great idea! Nice one. Festive greetings.

 

[Merle Haggard]

May I suggest that you should have a model of 46134, too?

 

[EbbwJunction1]

I'm not sure, but I think that at least one of the nameplates is in the Cheshire Military Museum in Chester.

 

[Taunton]

The Jubilee's naming logic was about as sane as most things in the UK (I write that in awe, not in anger).

Actually it was pretty logical, as each batch was authorised a group naming set were developed. A style that maybe Stanier brought from the GWR approach.

45552-45595 named after states/provinces in the major colonies.
45596-45638 after minor colonies, in alphabetical order.
45639-45678 after naval Admirals.
45679-45686 after naval battles.
45687-45730 after Warships (a number duplicated in their latter lives by WR diesels).
45731-45738 after pioneer Liverpool & Manchester locos (later duplicated by Class 86).
45739-45742 as a batch of four after the four Irish provinces.

 

[LMS 4F]

These names have often stood me in good stead over the years when trying to answer quiz questions of complete crosswords. In my opinion the finest looking steam locos ever built.
A good idea and I could go for North Borneo, Malaya and Ulster.

These names have often stood me in good stead over the years when trying to answer quiz questions of complete crosswords. In my opinion the finest looking steam locos ever built.
A good idea and I could go for North Borneo, Malaya and Ulster.

The Royal Tank Regiment was a Patriot which is a pity.

 

[daveinstoke]

I have seen the scot name plate 46134 many times. However it is not the one used on the original parallel boiler loco. As the regimental badge changed. Not to long after the loco was built, perhaps just a few years.
Dave.

I served with a Army education corps Captain, whom served in Malaya, as a boy soldier we had to do extra maths & other studies on a Tuesday evening. !
Dave.

 

[Ianigsy]

These names have often stood me in good stead over the years when trying to answer quiz questions of complete crosswords. In my opinion the finest looking steam locos ever built.
A good idea and I could go for North Borneo, Malaya and Ulster.


The Royal Tank Regiment was a Patriot which is a pity.

There's nearly always a Jubilee name in the Railway Magazine crossword- Eire and Quebec are very handy for crossword setters.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Actually it was pretty logical, as each batch was authorised a group naming set were developed. A style that maybe Stanier brought from the GWR approach.

45552-45595 named after states/provinces in the major colonies.
45596-45638 after minor colonies, in alphabetical order.
45639-45678 after naval Admirals.
45679-45686 after naval battles.
45687-45730 after Warships (a number duplicated in their latter lives by WR diesels).
45731-45738 after pioneer Liverpool & Manchester locos (later duplicated by Class 86).
45739-45742 as a batch of four after the four Irish provinces.

I never knew that. I was always puzzled by the wide array of names for the Jubilee class and I wondered if there was a rationale behind them.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Actually it was pretty logical, as each batch was authorised a group naming set were developed. A style that maybe Stanier brought from the GWR approach.

45552-45595 named after states/provinces in the major colonies.
45596-45638 after minor colonies, in alphabetical order.
45639-45678 after naval Admirals.
45679-45686 after naval battles.
45687-45730 after Warships (a number duplicated in their latter lives by WR diesels).
45731-45738 after pioneer Liverpool & Manchester locos (later duplicated by Class 86).
45739-45742 as a batch of four after the four Irish provinces.

I've only just seen this.
Yes and no.

Why start with Canada and Canadian provinces? Were they waiting for permission to name the Australian states?
In the case of India, I'm not sure what the logic is or was. I don't know if they've got all the major states at the time, because perhaps the names changed on independence - eg I suppose Tamil Nadu was then called Madras state - but then they've got all sorts - but surely not ALL - of the minor Raj fiefdoms. eg Bhopal, Gwalior, Kolhapur .... but there must have been scores of those.

And there is no Sind or Baluchistan.

And why those four Irish provinces, right at the end? Sorry, I'm not convinced.

 

[Bevan Price]

I've only just seen this.
Yes and no.

Why start with Canada and Canadian provinces? Were they waiting for permission to name the Australian states?
In the case of India, I'm not sure what the logic is or was. I don't know if they've got all the major states at the time, because perhaps the names changed on independence - eg I suppose Tamil Nadu was then called Madras state - but then they've got all sorts - but surely not ALL - of the minor Raj fiefdoms. eg Bhopal, Gwalior, Kolhapur .... but there must have been scores of those.

And there is no Sind or Baluchistan.

And why those four Irish provinces, right at the end? Sorry, I'm not convinced.

Canada may have been chosen first due to some perceived order of "seniority", dating from how long countries had been under British "influence", or from when they became "self-governing or independent".

 

[neilmc]

I always thought that, of the four pre-nationalisation companies, the LMS had a pretty crap naming policy. Regiments, admirals, members of the Royal Family and their minor relatives, subjects of the British Empire they could gloat over ... but at least there were those interesting Greek deities on the splashers of Jubilees. Now I'm told they're all warships after all ... damn philistines. I wonder what would have happened if Stanier had decided that all his mixed traffic locos should be named, like on the GWR? There could have been Castles, Halls, Granges, Manors, then Farmhouses and Detached Houses With At Least Four Bedrooms. Or going down from Counties, then Cities than names like Town Of Wigton and Suburb Of West Didsbury.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Another Jubilee which was renamed was Malta which became Malta GC.

 

[randyrippley]

I always thought that, of the four pre-nationalisation companies, the LMS had a pretty crap naming policy. Regiments, admirals, members of the Royal Family and their minor relatives, subjects of the British Empire they could gloat over ... but at least there were those interesting Greek deities on the splashers of Jubilees. Now I'm told they're all warships after all ... damn philistines. I wonder what would have happened if Stanier had decided that all his mixed traffic locos should be named, like on the GWR? There could have been Castles, Halls, Granges, Manors, then Farmhouses and Detached Houses With At Least Four Bedrooms. Or going down from Counties, then Cities than names like Town Of Wigton and Suburb Of West Didsbury.

Could be worse....
imagine if the LNER had run out of racehorses, they could have followed up with famous greyhounds and then winners at Crufts...

 

[Gloster]

Could be worse....
imagine if the LNER had run out of racehorses, they could have followed up with famous greyhounds and then winners at Crufts...

Considering some of the names that did appear, having a loco called Mick the Miller wouldn’t be that ridiculous. However, there is a certain snob value in racehorses, but this does not extend to greyhounds.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Another Jubilee which was renamed was Malta which became Malta GC.

Didn't do it much good - one of, if not the very first to be withdrawn! (Apart from Windward Islands, of course.)
Millhouses loco, I think it was. I heard it had a reputation as a bad steamer - but no doubt that could have been fixed - just the Cl 45s had appeared on the scene.
I managed to see it once. It was a bit special to me as my brother was serving in the RAF on Malta at the time.

 

[HSP 2]

Weren't the LNER racehorse names all St Ledger winners? The race is run at Doncaster I believe? Is that a coincidence by any chance?

 

[70014IronDuke]

Weren't the LNER racehorse names all St Ledger winners? The race is run at Doncaster I believe? Is that a coincidence by any chance?

Considering the A3s (originally A1s) were products of Gresely when CME of the Great Northern, whose main (only?) works were at Doncaster, I would think not.

I wonder how many divorces were caused by a driver saying within the wife's earshot "I've got Pretty Polly for tonight's job."

Mind you, I suppose the same might be said of "Victoria" - to bring this back on topic.

 

[DelW]

I wonder how many divorces were caused by a driver saying within the wife's earshot "I've got Pretty Polly for tonight's job."

Mind you, I suppose the same might be said of "Victoria" - to bring this back on topic.

Could have been even worse if he'd been allocated 60108:
"I'm taking out the Gay Crusader this evening"

 

[Taunton]

The strange thing is that both Thompson and then Peppercorn, with their postwar A2 and then A1 Pacifics, carried on picking off racehorse names, almost as if they had been determined from on high. Gresley of course would not have racehorse names on the A4, but had an intermediate stage of birds instead - he was a significant amateur ornithologist, and indeed president of the RSPB.

And then someone decided that the ER-allocated Deltics were to have racehorse names as well.

 

[Bevan Price]

Could have been even worse if he'd been allocated 60108:
"I'm taking out the Gay Crusader this evening"

"Gay" had a different meaning when 60108 existed.

 

[DelW]

"Gay" had a different meaning when 60108 existed.

Indeed so
I'm not sure when the current usage developed, I don't think I encountered it until probably the 1970s though it might well have been around earlier. But I'd better not drag this thread further off-topic!