KGX/Cambridge Ely query

[STEVIEBOY1]

Good morning, do the fast trains from Kings to Cross to Cambridge/Ely & King's Lynn, still split and attach at the main Cambridge Station or at Cambridge North now and do the fast trains from KGX that only go as far as Ely also split at Cambridge? I may be travelling from Cambridge with a lot of luggage, so getting on a train that stops for a few minutes whilst awaiting the attachment would be good. I presume these services run a 8 carriages from London & 4 onwards from Cambridge?

Thanks.

 

[bspahh]

Good morning, do the fast trains from Kings to Cross to Cambridge/Ely & King's Lynn, still split and attach at the main Cambridge Station or at Cambridge North now and do the fast trains from KGX that only go as far as Ely also split at Cambridge? I may be travelling from Cambridge with a lot of luggage, so getting on a train that stops for a few minutes whilst awaiting the attachment would be good. I presume these services run a 8 carriages from London & 4 onwards from Cambridge?

Thanks.

When a Northbound train splits, it is often at Royston, so the slow section can stop at the villages though to Cambridge. If the front section goes to Kings Lynn and stops at Littleport, then it will only be 4 coaches. Sometimes the front section will terminate at Ely and then it would be 8 coaches.

There used to be a few trains in the evening peak with 8 coaches between Cambridge and Kings Lynn. These would not stop at Littleport. I've just done a quick search at http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/CBG/to/ELY/2018/07/17/1600 and I can't see any

If you only need to get between Cambridge and Ely, then the hourly Greater Anglia trains to Norwich will usually be waiting in the bay platform 5 for 15 minutes or so. In the afternoon peak are also some trains just between Cambridge and Ely. The Stansted-Birmingham trains as they are short, usually busy between Cambridge and Ely and never stop for long.

 

[iphone76]

Good morning, do the fast trains from Kings to Cross to Cambridge/Ely & King's Lynn, still split and attach at the main Cambridge Station or at Cambridge North now and do the fast trains from KGX that only go as far as Ely also split at Cambridge? I may be travelling from Cambridge with a lot of luggage, so getting on a train that stops for a few minutes whilst awaiting the attachment would be good. I presume these services run a 8 carriages from London & 4 onwards from Cambridge?

Thanks.

I can't speak for the Ely trains, but the Kings Lynn fast trains I travelled on yesterday split and reattached at the main Cambridge station. If the Ely trains do split I'd imagine they would also do this in the main station so the empty portion can go to the sidings there ready to be used on the London bound services.

 

[philjo]

The Kings Lynn trains mainly split at Cambridge. A lot of them are 12 coaches between Kings Cross and Cambridge, though some are still 8 coaches.

 

[TheDavibob]

The Kings Lynn trains mainly split at Cambridge. A lot of them are 12 coaches between Kings Cross and Cambridge, though some are still 8 coaches.

And to add to this, the Ely trains are almost uniformly eight-car (off peak, at least) and don't split. The rump of the other fast, returning to Kings Cross, will *normally* wait in Cambridge Platform 1 for the portion from Kings Lynn, often not announced on the platform until not long before the rest arrives, but normally pretty easy to figure out which it is. You should be able to get on it several minutes before departure.

 

[Ianno87]

When a Northbound train splits, it is often at Royston, so the slow section can stop at the villages though to Cambridge. If the front section goes to Kings Lynn and stops at Littleport, then it will only be 4 coaches. Sometimes the front section will terminate at Ely and then it would be 8 coaches.

There used to be a few trains in the evening peak with 8 coaches between Cambridge and Kings Lynn. These would not stop at Littleport. I've just done a quick search at http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/CBG/to/ELY/2018/07/17/1600 and I can't see any

If you only need to get between Cambridge and Ely, then the hourly Greater Anglia trains to Norwich will usually be waiting in the bay platform 5 for 15 minutes or so. In the afternoon peak are also some trains just between Cambridge and Ely. The Stansted-Birmingham trains as they are short, usually busy between Cambridge and Ely and never stop for long.

Nothing splits at Royston any more. Only Cambridge.

 

[bramling]

Good morning, do the fast trains from Kings to Cross to Cambridge/Ely & King's Lynn, still split and attach at the main Cambridge Station or at Cambridge North now and do the fast trains from KGX that only go as far as Ely also split at Cambridge? I may be travelling from Cambridge with a lot of luggage, so getting on a train that stops for a few minutes whilst awaiting the attachment would be good. I presume these services run a 8 carriages from London & 4 onwards from Cambridge?

Thanks.

Generally the Kings Lynn trains are 4 cars north of Cambridge, so one or two units will detach or attach there. There are a couple of peak-hour 8 cars to/from Kings Lynn.

The Ely services are generally 8 cars, however I think it’s still the case that despite SDO only 4-car trains call at Waterbeach, which would mean any Ely service booked to call there would be 4 cars only north of Cambridge.

 

[Esker-pades]

Cambridge Flyers that terminate at Ely usually do not split. They only stop at Cambridge and Cambridge North en-route. I had a 700 on one of those once. Awful.

 

[dk1]

All attatch/detach moves would be made at Cambridge or Ely. Cambridge North is not signalled for this or suitable.

 

[dk1]

Wasn't it something like the 17:14 off the Cross that used to run as a 12-car slipping the rear 4 at Royston (doing the honours then at Intermediates to Cambridge) middle 4 at Cambridge with the front 4 continuing to Lynn?

 

[bramling]

Wasn't it something like the 17:14 off the Cross that used to run as a 12-car slipping the rear 4 at Royston (doing the honours then at Intermediates to Cambridge) middle 4 at Cambridge with the front 4 continuing to Lynn?

There have been various permutations over the years, however without checking I think the service in question was the one where the front 8 went all the way to Kings Lynn omitting Waterbeach, Littleport and Watlington. Unless I’m misremembering.

 

[Hadders]

Always amusing when a train splits at Cambridge. Front 4 to Kings Lynn, rear 4 return to Kings Cross.

The utter panic on peoples faces as they get their King's mixed up

 

[Esker-pades]

Is extending the platforms at the limiting stations on the cards? 8 coaches up to King's Lynn would be pretty good. And, it would increase reliability both in the timetable and the diagrams.

The rear coaches of a London to King's Lynn arrive at Cambridge at XX:30. They then re-attatch to another service from King's Lynn to provide enough capacity for the Cambridge to London section. This arrives at XX:37. 7 minutes is very tight, and I there have been a number of occasions where the joining has had to be abandoned because the down service has arrived late.

 

[dk1]

There have been various permutations over the years, however without checking I think the service in question was the one where the front 8 went all the way to Kings Lynn omitting Waterbeach, Littleport and Watlington. Unless I’m misremembering.

Always pleases me when I see it's 8-cars. Drives me bonkers when they let a late running Waterbeach stopper leave directly in front of me.

 

[Ianno87]

Wasn't it something like the 17:14 off the Cross that used to run as a 12-car slipping the rear 4 at Royston (doing the honours then at Intermediates to Cambridge) middle 4 at Cambridge with the front 4 continuing to Lynn?

Was the 1814. Front 8 to Lynn calling at Cambridge, Ely and Downham Market only. Rear 4 all shacks to Cambridge, Cambridge North, Ely.

 

[Ianno87]

Is extending the platforms at the limiting stations on the cards? 8 coaches up to King's Lynn would be pretty good. And, it would increase reliability both in the timetable and the diagrams.

The rear coaches of a London to King's Lynn arrive at Cambridge at XX:30. They then re-attatch to another service from King's Lynn to provide enough capacity for the Cambridge to London section. This arrives at XX:37. 7 minutes is very tight, and I there have been a number of occasions where the joining has had to be abandoned because the down service has arrived late.

Not any more. Dropped 4 cars now shumt to the sidings and return to couple to the service an hour later instead.

 

[Esker-pades]

Not any more. Dropped 4 cars now shumt to the sidings and return to couple to the service an hour later instead.

That's fairly sensible.

 

[bramling]

Not any more. Dropped 4 cars now shumt to the sidings and return to couple to the service an hour later instead.

I wonder if this is a resilience measure, or is this because the timetable has been written in such a way as to require minimal change in the future if they go 8 cars to Kings Lynn? ISTR we agreed a little while ago that the 387s are rather non-intensively used in this timetable, especially compared to how hard the 365s increasingly worked for much of the last two decades.

(This is an open question as I’m not at home so don’t have the diagrams in front of me!)

 

[Ianno87]

I wonder if this is a resilience measure, or is this because the timetable has been written in such a way as to require minimal change in the future if they go 8 cars to Kings Lynn? ISTR we agreed a little while ago that the 387s are rather non-intensively used in this timetable, especially compared to how hard the 365s increasingly worked for much of the last two decades.

(This is an open question as I’m not at home so don’t have the diagrams in front of me!)

A few things have changed for resilience - notably King's Lynn services now cross on the single line at Littleport rather than Downham Market which stops late Down trains knocking onto Up trains that was commonplace previously (the secondary effect of which is to move Up departures earlier off Cambridge, requiring the ECS to shunt from one side of the station to the other), and turnround times at King's Cross are now pretty much 39 minutes as standard most of the day.

 

[bspahh]

Is extending the platforms at the limiting stations on the cards? 8 coaches up to King's Lynn would be pretty good. And, it would increase reliability both in the timetable and the diagrams.

There have been positive noises about it. It was supposed to happen in CP5, but still doesn't have a firm, budgeted commitment. The Fen Line Users association site http://www.flua.org.uk has been a bit quiet recently, but it has a lot of links to news articles about it.

One problem is at Waterbeach. If the front 4 coaches of an 8 coach train stopped at the station, in either direction, then it would block the level crossing. There are plans to move the station when the old army base gets developed, but that is [edited] going to take a few years. Extending the current platforms would be a bit of a hassle as they would have to put piles in quite a long way before they get to solid ground. Procrastinating for a few years and then getting housing developers to pay for a new station, would save the rail budget for other stuff.

 

[bramling]

A few things have changed for resilience - notably King's Lynn services now cross on the single line at Littleport rather than Downham Market which stops late Down trains knocking onto Up trains that was commonplace previously (the secondary effect of which is to move Up departures earlier off Cambridge, requiring the ECS to shunt from one side of the station to the other), and turnround times at King's Cross are now pretty much 39 minutes as standard most of the day.

What happens if there isn’t a driver available to do part or all of the shunt? I can’t help but notice there seem to have been a lot more single 387s to and from London since May!

 

[dk1]

What happens if there isn’t a driver available to do part or all of the shunt? I can’t help but notice there seem to have been a lot more single 387s to and from London since May!

To be fair they are so desperate that they'd probably offer the incoming or nearby driver 12hrs just to do a quick shunt. Supply & demand is always a good place to be at.

 

[Ianno87]

What happens if there isn’t a driver available to do part or all of the shunt? I can’t help but notice there seem to have been a lot more single 387s to and from London since May!

Have been known to just be left in the platform at Cambridge. "May I have your attention please, this is a platform alteration..."

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Many thanks for all your replies.

 

[twpsaesneg]

There have been positive noises about it. It was supposed to happen in CP5, but still doesn't have a firm, budgeted commitment. The Fen Line Users association site http://www.flua.org.uk has been a bit quiet recently, but it has a lot of links to news articles about it.

One problem is at Waterbeach. If the front 4 coaches of an 8 coach train stopped at the station, in either direction, then it would block the level crossing. There are plans to move the station when the old army base gets developed, but that is not going to take a few years. Extending the current platforms would be a bit of a hassle as they would have to put piles in quite a long way before they get to solid ground. Procrastinating for a few years and then getting housing developers to pay for a new station, would save the rail budget for other stuff.

Design is definitely underway.

 

[bspahh]

Network Rail have submitted a planning application to extend the North bound platform at Littleport, so it can take 8 car trains

http://www.elystandard.co.uk/news/l...ion-could-see-eight-carriage-trains-1-5700552 says:

Network Rail have made a planning application to East Cambs District Council to extend platform 2 of Littleport railway station and to create a new access ramp and stairs to platform 1.

This will enable eight-carriage trains to serve the station heading towards King’s Lynn with the train to use selective door-opening when heading towards London King’s Cross.

There are currently eight-carriage Great Northern trains serving the Ely and Cambridge stations but officials at a rail summit in January 2017 hoped to extend the service to Watlington, Littleport and Waterbeach.

In the application letter to the council, Network Rail states the platform extension work, which would add 82m to the platform, is permitted under The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order which grants planning permission for certain types of development.

But in order to build the new access ramp and stairs to platform 1, prior approval would be needed of the design and siting.

Access to platform 1 is currently situated at the north end of the northbound platform via the car park, where commuters would need to walk across the tracks from platform 2 on a barrow crossing.

But the new access ramp and stairs would be built on the south end of the southbound platform via the underpass, which would see the removal of the barrow crossing.

Chairman of the Fen Line Users Association (FLUA) Colin Sampson said he welcomed the news, stating that the group supported Network Rail’s plans to get rid of barrow crossings across the country.

Mr Sampson said the plans were a step towards tackling issues with overcrowded trains, adding: “The fact that it’s in the planning process it’s good news. 
“I’m hoping there are plans for the other two stations [Watlington and Waterbeach] as well.”

Commenting on the plans for new access to platform 1, Mr Sampson said: “It’s a lot safer, you’re not walking across the tracks.

“It might mean some people have to get up five minutes earlier but that’s a small price to pay.”

 

[jopsuk]

Curious about this- it'll mean increased foot traffic across the level crossing or through the underpass-- the underpass has no footway, and the crossing has its pedestrian footway on the "wrong" side of the road (and wrong side of the main barriers!)

 

[bspahh]

Curious about this- it'll mean increased foot traffic across the level crossing or through the underpass-- the underpass has no footway, and the crossing has its pedestrian footway on the "wrong" side of the road (and wrong side of the main barriers!)

The planning application is here:
https://pa.eastcambs.gov.uk/online-...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=PEU3LNGG0D800

If you click on the Documents tab and then the View button next to "Plan as Proposed" there is a map, which has a label near the underpass saying "Footway completed by local authority as part of car park expansion scheme".

The planning application for that has already been granted here:
https://pa.eastcambs.gov.uk/online-...s.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=OHX299GGMCO00

 

[jopsuk]

Ah- couldn't find the car park expansion planning app

 

[Bald Rick]

Thank goodness for that. The first time I saw that Barrow Crossing I was horrified; I’d have closed it there and then if it wasn’t the only access to the platform. This has taken a long time coming.