Kings Cross ‘uncrossed’ Layout/Remodelling - Information and Updates

[Mcq]

You could say that the only renumbering is to the current platform 11 which becomes 10 when the current 10 disappears to allow platform lengthening.

 

[edwin_m]

Indeed. It's between P8 and P9, but between the ninth and tenth platforms since we're numbering from zero. On the one hand I'm in favour of renumbering to start at 1 but it's not as simple as just swapping numbers about; there's signalling, electronic data, signage... and it's not as if we have to worry about a platform -1 at Kings Cross. Unlike - potentially - at Leeds or York...

But the remodelling will change nearly all those things anyway, as well as having to re-familiarise all the staff with the new layout. As it seems there won't be a re-numbering, it means we are probably stuck with platform 0 for several decades. Probably by then H Potter won't be a thing any more so that issue will have gone away.

 

[800001]

It is intended to be Mon 26 April, after the weekend closure to switch sides of the station. RTT shows services using platforms that can only be reached through the eastern bore, (ie P0 and P1).

Correct Mon 26th, platforms 0 - 6 reopen.
Timetable slightly amended again, with lner having use of 3 platforms instead of 2 at the moment.
1Y00 is the first passenger service booked to use the reopened tunnel.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Probably by then H Potter won't be a thing any more so that issue will have gone away.

Don't you believe it. The Schilthorn in Switzerland is still milking being the location for On Her Majesty's Secret Service over 50 years ago. Bond music in the cable cars etc. (We only went on the cable car to reach a starting point for a walk - never quite seen the point of visiting a location just because a film was shot there, but there you go.)

 

[Mcq]

Don't you believe it. The Schilthorn in Switzerland is still milking being the location for On Her Majesty's Secret Service over 50 years ago. Bond music in the cable cars etc. (We only went on the cable car to reach a starting point for a walk - never quite seen the point of visiting a location just because a film was shot there, but there you go.)

The resturant goes round slowly but the loos - in the centre, don't - meaning when you come out you spend an age finding your table again!

Sorry mods - wildly off topic - only excuse is I left from here - well next door

 

[swt_passenger]

This picture on Twitter shows new signalling equipment installed within the middle tunnel, the background shows there are signals for both directions:

https://twitter.com/RealJohnWynne/status/1382438794390073345/photo/1

There’s another photo of the right hand side at the same place if you follow the link.

So does this mean there are intermediate signal sections within the tunnels, perhaps for closing up purposes?

Has anyone seen a signalling plan yet - are there going to be signals within the tunnels on all the routes, because I thought this was “not preferred”?

 

[Aictos]

What does the YA stand for in the signal sign?

 

[buz33]

This may help, it shows signals within all three bores of the gasworks tunnels.

Signal Maps

View live signal maps for train lines across the UK

signalmaps.co.uk

 

[MarkyT]

This picture on Twitter shows new signalling equipment installed within the middle tunnel, the background shows there are signals for both directions:

View attachment 94413

https://twitter.com/RealJohnWynne/status/1382438794390073345/photo/1

There’s another photo of the right hand side at the same place if you follow the link.

So does this mean there are intermediate signal sections within the tunnels, perhaps for closing up purposes?

Has anyone seen a signalling plan yet - are there going to be signals within the tunnels on all the routes, because I thought this was “not preferred”?

There are some new turnouts within the tunnels too, equally 'non-preferred' but possible where neccessary given careful design for maintenance access, modern communications not requiring crew to leave the footplate (usually), and sufficient thought given to passenger evacuation procedures should a train become disabled after being halted at a tunnel signal. Signals and points in the tunnels are essential here given the new extended higher speed throat design. The old layout had plenty of signals in the tunnels too, but no points. The signal head here looks like a Unipart Dorman LED miniature tunnel signal incorporating POSA. See https://www.unipartdorman.co.uk/assets/led_signalling_handbook.pdf (pages 18,19). It is accompanied by a non-standard vertical alphanumeric route indicator as described by John Wynne in his tweet.

 

[swt_passenger]

This may help, it shows signals within all three bores of the gasworks tunnels.

Signal Maps

View live signal maps for train lines across the UK

signalmaps.co.uk

Thanks, just what I was hoping for. I’m sure a few people will find that very interesting.

What does the YA stand for in the signal sign?

The railway codes site suggests just York (ROC) Kings Cross Area Signals. The A might just be a panel in the ROC?

 

[Mcq]

Thanks buz33 - very interesting.
Although turnouts are new to Gasworks Tunnels, I think there has always been one between the slows in Copenhagen Tunnels - and there will be a new one there between the fasts.

 

[MarkyT]

Thanks buz33 - very interesting.
Although turnouts are new to Gasworks Tunnels, I think there has always been one between the slows in Copenhagen Tunnels - and there will be a new one there between the fasts.

Yes, that crossover just within the south end of Copenhagen Slow tunnel was and remains unavoidable as the turnout to the steeply rising North London Incline is immediately outside the portal and cannot be moved. See my diagram here:

http://www.townend.me/files/kingscrossremodelling.pdf

 

[Mcq]

Thanks Marky T
Your diagram is a masterpiece - talk about one picture versus 1000 words!

 

[Bald Rick]

Good to see signals lit and OLE up, with 10 days to go before commissioning the east and fast bores. Some tidying up to do, and then the testing / commissioning.

 

[Mcq]

I'm still not too old to find this really exciting!

 

[swt_passenger]

[…]
The signal head here looks like a Unipart Dorman LED miniature tunnel signal incorporating POSA. See https://www.unipartdorman.co.uk/assets/led_signalling_handbook.pdf (pages 18,19)...

Presumably although described in the catalogue as “four aspect and POSA” the same hardware is also used for “four aspect and calling on“, ie into an occupied platform in the case of Kings Cross?

 

[edwin_m]

Presumably although described in the catalogue as “four aspect and POSA” the same hardware is also used for “four aspect and calling on“, ie into an occupied platform in the case of Kings Cross?

Perhaps the POSA version includes a flasher unit?

 

[swt_passenger]

Perhaps the POSA version includes a flasher unit?

Not really sure, I think people have previously suggested that on T/L the same lights might be used for both roles, I guess it depends where in the overall circuitry the flashing is enabled.

 

[edwin_m]

Not really sure, I think people have previously suggested that on T/L the same lights might be used for both roles, I guess it depends where in the overall circuitry the flashing is enabled.

Yes indeed. I seem to remember SSI modules included a provision for flashing an aspect, but I'm not up on modern practice. Otherwise I can't think of any reason they would be different in the catalogue, unless they just charge more for the same thing with a different label on.

 

[MarkyT]

Don't you believe it. The Schilthorn in Switzerland is still milking being the location for On Her Majesty's Secret Service over 50 years ago. Bond music in the cable cars etc. (We only went on the cable car to reach a starting point for a walk - never quite seen the point of visiting a location just because a film was shot there, but there you go.)

Staying one summer at the little village of Oberreid on Lake Brienz, we'd been very unlucky thus far weatherwise on the various mountain trips we'd undertaken. Then one very early morning before breakfast the sun was seen to be blazing from a completely clear sky so, as it was getting near the end of the holiday, we made the instant decision to take advantage and do the excursion up the Schilthorn straight away. The beautiful weather held as we made the early trip by train and cable car, then enjoyed a hearty 'Bond breakfast' in the restaurant overlooking the amazing alpine panorama with not a cloud in sight, seemingly over the whole of Switzerland! So utterly spectacular I teared up a little and began spouting all kinds of nonsense, but maybe that was just the effect of the high altitude!

The resturant goes round slowly but the loos - in the centre, don't - meaning when you come out you spend an age finding your table again!

Sorry mods - wildly off topic - only excuse is I left from here - well next door

The same applied at the old Post Office Tower restaurant. I recall some TV personality recounting an incident where they'd re-emerged from the bathroom into the middle of a performing live band at an event being held there.

 

[MotCO]

A group of four pictures posted on Twitter yesterday, the first pic (aerial view) is quite useful because it shows almost the entire area of work between the two sets of tunnels. The space taken for the new lines to curve across towards the reopened tunnel, and the overall length of the fast crossovers is quite apparent. In the pic the new up fast is yet to be relaid, but the two new east side lines are fully in position, with a works train on the up line.

https://twitter.com/ECMLupgrade/status/1372195555158396928/photo/2

(I‘ve trimmed the original picture slightly to the reduce file size.)

View attachment 92605

Is the tunnel in the centre bottom of the picture for Eurostar to St Pancras?

 

[Darandio]

Is the tunnel in the centre bottom of the picture for Eurostar to St Pancras?

The blueish/white tube? Yes.

 

[swt_passenger]

Is the tunnel in the centre bottom of the picture for Eurostar to St Pancras?

Yes, the light blue is the Eurostar portal. The two lines going underground right of centre are the Thameslink “canal tunnels” towards St Pancras low level. Bottom right are the four tracks of the North London Line.

 

[Railcar]

Slightly OT, but why is Copenhagen tunnel so called, when Copenhagen Street is adjacent to the Gasworks Tunnel?

 

[zwk500]

Slightly OT, but why is Copenhagen tunnel so called, when Copenhagen Street is adjacent to the Gasworks Tunnel?

According to somebody on wikipedia (all usual caveats apply):

The name is taken from Copenhagen Fields, an open space directly above the tunnels, that was once the location of the Ambassador of Denmark's residence in the 17th century.

 

[swt_passenger]

According to somebody on wikipedia (all usual caveats apply):

There are a few other more specialised historic websites that record the building of the Metropolitan Cattle Market, on ”Copenhagen Fields”, in 1852. So it does seem a legitimate explanation.

 

[Mcq]

No need to ask about Gassworks Tunnels - at least there's one 'holder' left!

 

[Aictos]

Kings Cross PSB's remaining area of control is Kings Cross and Moorgate up to Oakleigh Park and Grange Park. This will transfer to York ROC on 26th April.
None of Peterborough signalbox will be transferring to the ROC any time soon.

Sorry guys but is this still the plan or is the remaining area of Kings Cross PSB to be transferred to York ROC going to be delayed?

 

[Shwam3]

Sorry guys but is this still the plan or is the remaining area of Kings Cross PSB to be transferred to York ROC going to be delayed?

Still going as planned for the 26th as far as I'm aware.

 

[Aictos]

Still going as planned for the 26th as far as I'm aware.

Thank you, so from the 26th April then the former Kings Cross PSB is no more - will it still be demolished as LNER say it will be because in a earlier post, a Camden planning application shows that the works doesn't affect the PSB?