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Kings Cross ‘uncrossed’ Layout/Remodelling - Information and Updates

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Nottingham59

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Civil engineers use the term "invert" as shorthand for "inverted arch", for referring to the bottom portion of a tunnel - the bottom half for tunnels of circular cross section.
 

Bald Rick

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Slab track is really rather awesome - saves loads of maintenance, doesn't have the ballast based geometry issues conventional track has, and means you get really nice alignment between track and OLE. It's also nicer to deal with from a drainage standpoint. It buys you a fair number of mm for the OLE too, if tunnel diameter is tight.

Absolute b*stard to replace whe it’s life expired though.
 

Legolash2o

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How does slab track impact vibrations from trains (how it feels riding on a train). Doesn't ballast absorb some of the vibrations?

How does slab track impact drainage? I'm guessing just flowing off to the sides of the concrete into a drain.
 

Bald Rick

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How does slab track impact vibrations from trains (how it feels riding on a train). Doesn't ballast absorb some of the vibrations?

One of the principle benefits of slab track is that it can be installed to very tight tolerances and it will stay there. There is therefore much less in the way of bibration, and the ride is smoother. A good example is the jubilee line when running into the tunnel at Canning Town. Plenty of other examples too.
 

InOban

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It's certainly a pain to replace - Glasgow Queen Street was closed for 16 weeks. But I believe that the replacement slab used there and through Winchburgh tunnel will have a much longer life. I think that they used Austrian experts since it is widely used there.
 

hwl

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Thank you for these pics- good to see progress being made at this time.
On behalf of 'amateurs' like myself I guess you are referring to the fact that the rails are to be laid direct onto this bed of concrete rather than on sleepers. Is that not happening in other places? I can't imagine it is being done in the way it is unless that makes good sense.
They aren't laid on to that bed of concrete - that is just the sub-base for what comes later...

Pre-cast base units equivalent to 8 sleepers (over 5m long) with some large square holes in are brought in and carefully aligned in the final position leaving a gap between the sub-base that is visible in the photos and the precast unit that is then filled with concrete, the holes providing a suitable key to help maintain positioning.

1597867991947.png

How does slab track impact drainage? I'm guessing just flowing off to the sides of the concrete into a drain.

Yep, you can see the wooden formwork for casting the drainage channels in the Kings Cross photos.
 

quantinghome

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Civil engineers use the term "invert" as shorthand for "inverted arch", for referring to the bottom portion of a tunnel - the bottom half for tunnels of circular cross section.
Thanks for clarifying my engineering jargon.

I wonder if invert ever existed - many old tunnels were built without one, which makes for significant structural problems as the tunnel ages. It's good to see this being addressed. Much easier when the tunnel is out of use.
 

BrianW

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At risk of going over old discussions or too much of a tangent- train lengths at KX.
I note the diagrams suggest platform lengthenings. I know there is limited space in relation to the tunnels.
Are there expectations of longer trains? I hear suggestions of cost savings and increased reliability with fewer but longer trains.
Would there be constraints in terms of platform lengths elsewhere at places served en route to and through Yorkshire, NE and Scotland?
 

Starmill

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A significant amount of work has been done to provide platforms which can accommodate 260 metre trains all along the Mainline. I am not sure there is anywhere left to be done. Some platforms north of Edinburgh might be only available for 240 metres or somewhat less.
 

Class 170101

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At risk of going over old discussions or too much of a tangent- train lengths at KX.
I note the diagrams suggest platform lengthenings. I know there is limited space in relation to the tunnels.
Are there expectations of longer trains? I hear suggestions of cost savings and increased reliability with fewer but longer trains.

Its probably to do with stand back from buffer stops (stop 2m / 6ft from buffers) and being able to see station starter signals (again is this standard 6ft / 2m)? I imagine the distances whilst of the agreed standard when Kings Cross was last remodelled are now substandard and with remodelling must meet newer more recent standards
 

Mcq

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Does anyone have a summary of the intended works this weekend.
This 'thread' seems remarkably 'bare' for such a major project.
I've noted possessions of KX platforms almost every night for the last few weeks, so lots must be going on there - just doesn't seem to surface here sadly.
I understand viewing access is minimal.
 

59CosG95

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Does anyone have a summary of the intended works this weekend.
This 'thread' seems remarkably 'bare' for such a major project.
I've noted possessions of KX platforms almost every night for the last few weeks, so lots must be going on there - just doesn't seem to surface here sadly.
I understand viewing access is minimal.
I believe the works are to do with strengthening Camden Sewer.
 

MarkyT

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Its probably to do with stand back from buffer stops (stop 2m / 6ft from buffers) and being able to see station starter signals (again is this standard 6ft / 2m)? I imagine the distances whilst of the agreed standard when Kings Cross was last remodelled are now substandard and with remodelling must meet newer more recent standards
For a new layout, stand back is a major issue for signal sighting and if the signal is on the wrong (righthand) side it may need to be as much as 20m ahead of the nose to get an adequate view from the seated driving position. On the correct (left) side, equipped with coacting heads etc, that distance can often be reduced considerably, but at some older existing terminus platforms around the country, starting signal sighting is atrocious for some train lengths used, with signals almost parallel with the cab and completely invisible from the controls; I don't know if that's a particular problem at KX on any platforms. Often at resignalling and remodelling, some fairly large apparent increases in physical standage actually result in no official increase in train length capacity. The new layout invariably results in better sighting and a greater margin for stopping accuracy though, which is always a good thing for operating reliability.
 

swt_passenger

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Camden Sewer - is that what we locals call the former Fleet River?
I don’t believe so, the former Fleet culvert passes the front of Kings Cross and basically heads up Pancras Rd, it’s heading well to the west of the Kings Cross station throat and tunnels.
 

adamedwards

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Curious to know how much faster Finsbury Park to Moorgate is now in comparison to the old route via Kings Cross. I would assume substantially faster due to less distance and electric acceleration.
 

Class 170101

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Curious to know how much faster Finsbury Park to Moorgate is now in comparison to the old route via Kings Cross. I would assume substantially faster due to less distance and electric acceleration.

I'd be surprised if there was much in it to be honest. Don't forget the current route stops at all stations as where as the original route via York Road I don't think had as many.
 

Bald Rick

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Well, Kings Cross Thameslink to Moorgate was 8-10 minutes. Add in an imaginary time for Finsbury Park to Kings Cross Thameslink (5-6 mins?) and you have your answer. You might add in a couple of extra minutes to allow for the rolling stock of the day and the 8mph restrictions are the old, old Kings X.
 

Dr Hoo

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Well, Kings Cross Thameslink to Moorgate was 8-10 minutes. Add in an imaginary time for Finsbury Park to Kings Cross Thameslink (5-6 mins?) and you have your answer. You might add in a couple of extra minutes to allow for the rolling stock of the day and the 8mph restrictions are the old, old Kings X.
Back in the late 1960s typical times via King's Cross (York Road) southbound or via the Hotel Curve and old suburban platform were 15 or 16 minutes between Moorgate and Finsbury Park.
 

Brissle Girl

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Looking back to a 1966 timetable there were only 8 weekday southbound services via York Road onwards to Moorgate, so the frequency of service was completely transformed by running via Essex Road
 

AlbertBeale

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Back in the late 1960s typical times via King's Cross (York Road) southbound or via the Hotel Curve and old suburban platform were 15 or 16 minutes between Moorgate and Finsbury Park.

So about the same as now.

Looking back to a 1966 timetable there were only 8 weekday southbound services via York Road onwards to Moorgate, so the frequency of service was completely transformed by running via Essex Road

I only ever remember the Kings Cross line to Moorgate services being just in the rush hour (when I was first in the Kings Cross area regularly and first became aware of them, seeing a train emerging across the other side of the station on the Hotel Curve one day). When did it stop being an all-day service? Indeed, when did the St Pancras route to Moorgate ones stop being all-day?
 
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